Niners Unite...around Babylon 5!

[OmahaStar]

Re: Rangers

Autobot said:
I have enjoyed reading all the past comments and reviews so far for season 1. (What happened to reporting on events of the episode by Jane the anchorwoman?)

No one else was doing it, and after awhile I just dropped it, rather than being the only person keeping it going.

Does anybody know what precipitated this change in leads on the show? Do we know if it was already predestined by JMS with this whole prophecy storyline, or was it needed for ratings purposes, to shake up the show for the better?

Here's what we know, and that is confirmed: Four people, including JMS and Michael O'Hare were in a room, discussing the future of the show. Those four, and only those four, know what exactly was said.

There have been enough speculations on this to merit a Kennedy-type conspiracy book.

Michael O'Hare and the B5 crew parted ways, in a *positive* way, mind you ... There were no hard feelings on either side. In fact, Michael comes back for another episode coming up about midway through season 2, and makes another *big* return in a two-parter in season 3.

The show took a different direction under Boxleitner, who did have a "bigger star name" than O'Hare. This also allowed for potential apperances by his wife, Melissa Gilbert.

So .. did he quit? did he get fired? did they make Swedish Meatballs and sing Kumbaya? We don't know for fact, and probably never will. It's been over a decade since it happened, and it's not like he was the only person replaced along the way. In fact, he was the ... (Laurel/Susan ... Lyta/Talia ... Ko'Dath/Na'Toth-Kellerman/Na'Toth-Brown/Na'Toth #2-Adams) fourth.

It all worked out in the end.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Re: Rangers

To add a little more, what we can piece together of the situation went like this.

In JMS' original plans, Sinclair had been the lead character throughout the whole show. That continued as planned up to the end of the first season. As JMS came to plotting the second season out in more detail, he realised two things about Sinclair's character which hadn't occurred to him in the less-detailed version.

First, all the various amazing things that would happen to Sinclair throughout the course of the series might be a little too much to swallow for just one person. It strained credulity for all of this stuff to happen to (and depend on) just one guy.

Second, Sinclair had pretty much nothing to do with some of the storylines that would be taking more prominence in season 2. He would be nothing more than an observer, weakening him as the lead character of the show.

So, JMS moved Sinclair out of the way and brought in Sheridan. This had the effect of splitting the lead character's story between two characters, making the load each of them had to carry a little more reasonable. He could also then give Sheridan the connection to the second season storylines that he knew Sinclair didn't have. But since certain things about Sinclair's story had already been set up in season 1 that were vital to the overall arc of the show, he couldn't just lose Sinclair altogether, hence his return in seasons 2 and 3.

 

[Autobot]

Re: Rangers

Thanks lvsky and Omahastar for the info on the Sinclair/Sheridan replacement issue!

 

[Autobot]

OmahaStar said:
He later co-starred with his daughter Amblyn

So his daughter's name is Amblyn Tamblyn? How cruel!

Ok I looked it up on imdb, it's Amber Tamblyn. Phew, that's better!

 

[OmahaStar]

Autobot said:

OmahaStar said:
He later co-starred with his daughter Amblyn

So his daughter's name is Amblyn Tamblyn? How cruel!

Ok I looked it up on imdb, it's Amber Tamblyn. Phew, that's better!

Oh brother ... Typo city there. Yep, I meant Amber Tamblyn ... And it came out Amblyn. Oops .. Sorry, Russ!

 

[aladinsane]

I got a bit behind, but am now caught up with the viewing schedule. "Geometry of Shadows" was a very interesting episode. I found the technomages an intersting twist on the more typical magician as portrayed in other genre shows/movies. I like the idea of them using tech so advanced the mind of others can only conceive it as magic. The Drazi conflict was lame. Star Trek did it with the black/white and white/black people decades earlier. Ivanova handled the situation amusingly, but it wasn't a strong story line. The Londo/Vir/Elric moments were super. It's some chilling foreshadowing when Elric says to Londo, "I'm afraid you're going to spend the rest of your life paying for your mistakes." Average overall.

 

[aladinsane]

On to the current episodes.

"A Distant Star" is a pretty average episode. It is revealed that Sheridan isn't very happy on a space station--he'd rather be exploring on a ship like the Cortez. This adds a bit to the "destiny" of his. It's interesting how begrudgingly Sheridan takes his post--a promotion, while Delenn gives up so much to stay on B5. More shadows mystery and some action. Entertaining but average.

"The Long Dark"--I really like Dwight Schultz; he does a great job in this episode. Garibaldi shows his heart again in this episode my not dismissing Dwight's character as crazy. The mysterious organ eater heading out to the rim story line was okay. The actress who played to survivor on the Copernicus was pretty bad--what's up with so many bad guest actors? And Franklin gets involved with her only to pull back at the last minute. He must be hard up. Average again.

"Spider in the Web"--Ahh, govn't ordered spying. Imagine that. Paranoid of Mars independence, a government or Psicorp run agency, Bureau 13, salvages the bodies of critically ill or injured people and alters them to serve as sleeper agents. That's pretty twisted. Imagine seeing an old friend long declared dead doing horrible things like killing. This shows how far some are willing to go to advance their personal agendas--the question that needs to be answered is, Is it Bureau 13 Psicorp run? Or is it run by someone else in EarthGov. Last note, TALIA (horrible acting by the way) lies to Sheridan. Is she protecting the corp? Why else would she lie?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Okay...

I've gotten really far behind on my reviews, but today I will catch up.

First, the ones related to last week:

Revelations:

Lots of stuff going on in this one, all of it dealing with the chief arc of the series.

Delenn emerges from her cocoon looking half human and half Minbari...and indeed, is revealed as a 'bridge' between humans and the Minbari. Perhaps seen as sort of s 'symbol' now...but in future....well....

Garabaldi finally wakes up from his coma, but only with the help of the mysterious healing device.

Sheridan has his sister aboard the station, and he helps him to deal with his wife Anna's death. Seems she was lost on a scientific expedition to a dead world. Horrible that no one survived.

Londo has a pretty chilling conversation with Mr. Morden. Not exactly the "Londo Line of the Episode" - I think the entertaining Londo lines will be alot fewer in coming for a while after this. However, his comment to Morden of "Why don't you destroy the whole Narn homeworld, while you're at it?"...and Morden's response of "One thing at a time, Ambassador...one thing at a time..." is pretty doggone chilling. And I think Londo, in his astonishment, thought so too. But agrees to let Morden know of anything that he might hear about activities out on the Rim.

The final bit of interest in this episode is G'Kar's research in the Book of G'Quan, about the dark enemy. He informs the Council of his findings, and sends a Narn ship to investigate. But thanks to Londo's agreement with Morden, the ship is destroyed as soon as it comes out of hyperspace.

Most interesting.


The Geometry of Shadows:

Well, first of all, we have the appearance of Lord Reefa. An associate of Londo's that we will see from time to time.

We also have the interesting cultural snapshot - the Drazi involved in their Green/Purple battle - which, on B5, ends in a most entertaining way, with Susan becoming the leader and insisting on peace - at least among the Drazi on B5.

Then, finally, we have the Technomages gathering at B5, in preparation for what is essentially their effort to 'get out of Dodge'. They don't want to have their powers abused in the coming dark times, and so they are going beyond the Rim.

Londo, always interested in solidifying his position of power, asks for a blessing from one of the Technomages, but at first gets some creepy little creatures attached to his back. But then, after this little "joke", gets told that he is "touched by Darkness", and that the Technomage hears "The sounds of billions, calling your name." Londo responds "My followers?"...but the Technomage chillingly replies "Your victims."

Yipes!

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Well, this week's episodes are a bit less prophetic than last week's, I think. But nevertheless, interesting.

A Distant Star:

For some reason, I always have liked this episode. I mean, it doesn't reveal that much new about anything to come...but I guess I sorta like Maynard and the whole long range explorer vessel thing. And incidentally, I think the music that they used for the explorer vessel 'theme' is just perfect.

Babylon 5 has great music!

In this episode, Sheridan and the fighter pilots bring in the Cortez after it has been lost in hyperspace - something that has never been done before. Yay team!

Although it doesn't come without a price - one of the pilots in the lifeline is destroyed by one of those mysterious spider vessels.

From a personal point of view, I think my favorite point of the episode, however, is the conversation between Delenn and Sheridan, when Delenn tells him that "We are all starstuff - WE are the universe, trying to figure itself out."

Sorta cool to think about. And lord knows, it makes a big impression on John Sheridan.

 

[Orac Zen]

Re: Rangers

Well, I'm behind again. And I'm having computer hassles so I ought to watch some B5 as therapy or something.

As I recall last week's episodes aren't among those I consider S2 high points, so I might cheat and skip those. I do like the "starstuff" conversation in "A Distant Star", but the other two never did much for me.

This week's episodes, though... Definitely going to make time for those, whatever else happens.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Rangers

Okay, the one of last two for me to catch up on are...

The Long Dark:

Well, this is the one about the Copernicus, an earth ship from 100 years in the past that happens to float by B5 on it's way to the Rim. Mariah Cirrus is on the ship along with her husband, who is dead in his cryogenic sleeper chamber. Seems a mysterious being has been living on the ship and 'feeding' off of them. The being is also the one who set the course of the ship for the Rim (translated - he's a bad guy).

Amis (played by Dwight Schultz, who I like in this role ALOT more than I ever liked him as Barkley) is a lurker and war veteran whose entire team was killed by this creature at a listening post during the war. It is speculated that since the Copernicus was supposed to fly by the listening post in it's original mission, that the evil being 'hitched a ride' on it as it went by, and changed it's course.

Not sure why the evil being didn't kill both of the inhabitants of the cryogenic sleep chambers...but it didn't. This was convenient for the little part of the story that involved Franklin participating in the unethical practice of making overtures toward a patient.

I have NO idea why they put this bit in, other than to give Franklin something to do as the rest of the story builds. But IMO, it wasn't the best idea, cus it's not really the sort of person Franklin is *at all*. As we will discover, Franklin is alot of things...but 'sleezy' is not one of them. EVER.

Anyway, long story short, our heros kill the evil being and Mariah leaves the station to go find out what she missed over the past hundred years.

No big revelations, except that we now know that evil beings are gathering out on the rim - they are *all* invited to the party.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Rangers

And the final episode for this week was...

Spider in the Web:

Well, this is the episode about Able Horn, the bionic zombie created by Bureau 13. He was once a Free Mars leader, but after he was killed in battle, Bureau 13 reanimated his body with bionics, so he could be controlled by them to carry out all manner of dastardly deeds.

Talia, as a telepath, is able to penetrate his mind, which is fixated on the moment of his death, and piece together what happened to him. Everyone is suitably creeped out by the whole thing, and eventually, Able Horn is killed in a shootout with station security in Amanda Carter's quarters.

One event that goes unnoticed for the B5 newbie, but which is not lost on the veterans, is the appearance of Zach Allen as a security officer.

Yay!

 

[Blade Runner]

Re: Rangers

Just want to apologise to PKTrekGirl for getting behind in my watching. Sorry.

My life has been very hectic lately as I'm sure you'll understand.

I'm doing my best to catch up but I won't be reviewing the episodes again until I have.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Rangers

^ Well, since so many people are so far behind or so far ahead, I'm kind of at a loss here.

I'm beginning to think once again that we need to rethink this entire thing.

I think we need to determine who REALLY wants to participate in this, and go forward with that group. Then we can go at a speed that people will be happier with.

Seems to me that it's silly to keep going slowly, waiting for people who are not really into this anymore.

We have been waiting on a few folks now for so long that several folks have given up and have gone ahead - including Llanita, who was the only real B5 newbie. Some are really far behind, and some are really far ahead, and as best I'm able to determine, there really IS no real 'group' anymore who is actually watching the episodes we are supposed to be on.

Frankly, I'm getting pretty discouraged and disappointed. And yeah...even a bit hurt.

All of you guys said you wanted to do this, and now...well...

*sigh*


I think it might be a good idea if everyone posted exactly what episode they are on right now and how fast they want to go in future, and then OmahaStar and I can discuss it and decide what to do.

 

[Blade Runner]

Re: Rangers

*sigh* I am really sorry.

Because I've felt really bad about letting you down I've seen 4 episodes today. The last one I saw was Revelations. I'll be caught up soon and then I intend to make sure I don't fall behind again.

 

[eastman23]

Re: Rangers

The last episode I watched was Soul Mates (the one right after "Spider in the Web"). I can handle 3 or 4 episodes a week and try to contain my enthusiasm to get ahead.

 

[NCC1701]

Re: Rangers

I know I haven't been posting, but I've seen up to "The Coming of Shadows". The only reason I'm ahead is because it's already monday morning over here, so I already had all of yesterday to watch this week's batch. I'm fine with watching however many episodes you people want to watch, I just spend the rest of my free time during the week watching DS9 episodes anyway.

 

[Orac Zen]

Re: Rangers

I know I've been slack, and I'm sorry. Offline life has just been ridiculous for me lately. I will definitely catch up this week, and if people want to watch more eps per week or whatever I'll be okay with that.

 

[Blade Runner]

Re: Rangers

I've watched up to A Distant Star now.

Where should I have got to by now?

 

[Autobot]

Re: Rangers

Ok I've reviewed this week's episodes and am happy to contribute! I like 3 episodes a week.

A DISTANT STAR

We have a visit from Sheridan’s first commander, Capt. Maynard aka “Stinky”, of the Cortez. My first thought about seeing him was, hey isn’t that Stephen J. Cannell? (producer-creator of shows like Hardcastle & McCormick, the A-Team, Wiseguy, Hunter, and others. You may remember that these shows’ credits ended with him taking a piece of paper from the typewriter and throwing it towards the screen, becoming the ‘C’ in Cannell productions. Ok I remember too much from these 80s action shows don’t I, GRIN).

I find that in these early episodes of the second season, the scripts have been enriching Capt. Sheridan’s character well, and I enjoyed learning of his fondness for ships like the Cortez. His struggle between being a starship captain and becoming a “beureaucrat” or politician on DS9 (oops I mean B5!) was also insightful. I enjoyed the relationship between Stinky and Swamprat. Seemed to be one-too-many discussions between them where they’re walking the corridors. I thought it was a nice job when Capt. Maynard first arrives on the station, and the walk that both he and Capt Sheridan take seems to be almost one continuous shot, taking many turns, and ending up in the turbolift a minute and a half later. What a great way to show that these aren’t just isolated sets, but display to the viewer that this is a real place that is in fact very large.

Orwell, the guy who helps Garibaldi get his hard-to-find ingredients, seems very familiar. I researched it and find that he is played by Miguel A. Nunez Jr., and seems to have been in many roles in various films and tv shows, but none of them really stand out in my mind where I go “Ohhh, he’s THAT guy.” So the difficulty of Garibaldi wanting these ingredients is that they’re very heavy? How heavy is that one little case with olive oil and a few other ingredients to make this “bunya”?

I like that Sheridan didn’t go out in a Starfury personally to rescue his friend. It is much more believable that he stay on the station.

While Dr. Franklin’s orders to Garibaldi about his diet are reasonable, I agree with Gul Dukat’s post above that Dr. Franklin’s adjusting of everybody’s diets was like something out of a sitcom with the switching of plates in the bar. But Dr. Franklin’s enjoying of Garibaldi’s meal was funny, although seemed to be played a little over the top by Richard Biggs.


THE LONG DARK

I didn’t like this episode much at all. Overall, the writing was just not very good. And the actress who played Mariah--she must be a soap opera actress. So she has this first kiss with Dr. Franklin – where did that come from? Didn’t she just finish saying “I just said good night to my husband” moments earlier? Sure they had their problems apparently, but this still seemed out of nowhere, and overall the relationship between her and Dr. Franklin was very poorly executed.

I also noticed that at one point when she’s asleep in Medlab, there is an instrumentation panel on the left by her bed. The title of this panel? “Medlab”. Ohhh that so we know where she is, I guess.

At one point when they’re thinking of how to try find the being, not knowing how to find it or stop it, Sheridan says “Let’s just make sure we’re ready for it.” So, just how exactly could they get ready for it, if they don’t know how to find it, kill it, capture it, or prevent it from doing any harm?? When Garibaldi first finds the alien near Amos, played by Dwight Schultz, I guess they were trying to keep the image of the alien somewhat mysterious, but the special effects were just very poor—it looked like they were firing at a puff of smoke.

A positive note -- I did like the alien’s dinner trying to walk away, that was an enjoyable lighthearted moment!

At the end, correct me if I’m wrong, but at the conversation between Sheridan and Ivanova at the end of the episode said the Copernicus would have headed to the outer rim. So this ship probably would have headed to Z’Ha’Dum and theoretically killed all the mysterious aliens out there, if it wasn’t for Babylon 5? Way to go team. Now those mysterious powerful aliens, who we’re probably going to have a war with, are still around to attack us! Go B5.


SPIDER IN THE WEB

I enjoyed this episode, dealing with the intrigue and politics between Earth and Mars, and the conspiracies involved behind the scenes of daily operations. A few notes I had:
- the Babylon 5 computers can display the location of anyone, at any time? Since when?
- Talia – her acting and her dialogue. Groan. “I’m tired and I hurt.” Ick.
- Funniest moment!
Sheridan: “You threw one [a telepath] out a 3rd storey window on Io.
Ivanova: “There was an ample pool below the window though.”
Sheridan: “I’ll assume you knew that”
Then the look that Ivanova gives – great!
- So Garibaldi tries to compare a couple databases, and ends up sabotaging Sheridan’s door? That’s just stupid.
- Having Talia escorted by security, good. Not checking out her destination before letting her in? That’s negligent. What dimwitted fools work security!

Ok Sheridan starts talking about a secret agency within the government that’s shady and surround conspiracies. Nobody knows about it. Hmm sounds like Section 31. You’re close – try Bureau 13! Could these two organizations AND names be any MORE similar??? That’s just freaky!