NFL 2014-2015 Season Discussion

[Timby]

So, Peyton has to be done, right? I mean, I don't think I've ever seen the wheels come so completely off the train like they did tonight. When he went deep, he was overthrowing like hell, and his short passes lacked any touch whatsoever.

If he goes I have to believe it will be because he doesn't feel that he can play to his usual standards. I mean, no way the Broncos say they don't want him back right?

Well, it's definitely a weak free agent class (I think the headliners are Vick and Hoyer) and it's not like the Broncos will be in a position to draft a top-line guy, but just the way Manning walked off the field had some pretty definitive body language in it. I just wonder how much is really left in his tank.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I disagree. He did not control the ball all the way through.

And Aaron Rodgers is a Full Grown Man.

I disagree. He did not control the ball all the way through.

Agreed. It looked like an awesome catch until it became clear he didn't maintain control. That's the rule. Bryant shouldn't beat himself up over it - it was very close.

Absolutely terrible call in the Dallas- GB game. That should have been a catch. Dez Bryant has to be beside himself.

It wasn't a catch and I'm as die hard a Cowboys fan as they come. It sucks but it is what it is. Watching Romo and Rodgers hobble around out there today all banged up was incredible. A couple of tough QB's battling it out. Cowboys just aren't quite ready defensively to go all the way. Need Sean Lee and Justin Durant to return next year and have to draft a pass rusher. I can take a loss like this. The Cowboys overachieved this season and it was fun to watch. They should be better next year.

Bryant caught the ball, tucked the ball, took TWO steps, and the stretched the ball out to try to cross the goal line. At which point did he "not have control"?
Does he have to duct tape it to himself and then carry it fifteen yards before its a catch? The rules allow for the referee to determine that a completion was made if the player plants his feet (which he did) and or tucks the ball (which he did) AND then makes a "football move" (which he did!) I was cheering for the Pack to win, but COME ON! That was a terrible call.

 

[Skywalker]

The rule needs to be changed. Bryant caught the ball, actually took three steps while making a football move toward the end zone, and was touched by the Green Bay defender while going down. The ground cannot cause a fumble when a player goes to the ground due to contact with a defender. I understand why the refs made the ruling they did, but this is far from the first time a game has been decided by a rule that shouldn't exist as it currently does.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Bryant caught the ball, tucked the ball, took TWO steps, and the stretched the ball out to try to cross the goal line. At which point did he "not have control"?

I didn't see two steps. I saw him land (elbow hit) and reach out. The reaching out is what caused him to lose control. Maybe that landing and reaching out is a football move, but I didn't see any steps (not that steps are required).

ETA: Looking at it again, there's an argument for two steps but there isn't really an argument those steps count as a football move. He looked like he was essentially doing a cartwheel.

 

[Yoda]

He was going to the ground as part of the process of catching the ball, therefore 'football moves' don't really come into it. It's really a rule to protect the offense from instant fumbles in certain situations. It's just that going up for the ball, stumbling and falling, and then hitting it on the ground and losing it is kind of the absurd max case and makes it look bad especially in slow motion. If you time it out, from the point where he caught it, it seems to be slightly under a second until the ball hits the ground and pops up. From the time he gets his second foot down it's under half a second before he loses it.

 

[Use of Time]

Bryant caught the ball, tucked the ball, took TWO steps, and the stretched the ball out to try to cross the goal line. At which point did he "not have control"?

I didn't see two steps. I saw him land (elbow hit) and reach out. The reaching out is what caused him to lose control. Maybe that landing and reaching out is a football move, but I didn't see any steps (not that steps are required).

ETA: Looking at it again, there's an argument for two steps but there isn't really an argument those steps count as a football move. He looked like he was essentially doing a cartwheel.

Yep. I caught hell with the people I was watching this with because I knew it was coming back.

 

[Use of Time]

I disagree. He did not control the ball all the way through.

And Aaron Rodgers is a Full Grown Man.

Agreed. It looked like an awesome catch until it became clear he didn't maintain control. That's the rule. Bryant shouldn't beat himself up over it - it was very close.

Absolutely terrible call in the Dallas- GB game. That should have been a catch. Dez Bryant has to be beside himself.

It wasn't a catch and I'm as die hard a Cowboys fan as they come. It sucks but it is what it is. Watching Romo and Rodgers hobble around out there today all banged up was incredible. A couple of tough QB's battling it out. Cowboys just aren't quite ready defensively to go all the way. Need Sean Lee and Justin Durant to return next year and have to draft a pass rusher. I can take a loss like this. The Cowboys overachieved this season and it was fun to watch. They should be better next year.

Bryant caught the ball, tucked the ball, took TWO steps, and the stretched the ball out to try to cross the goal line. At which point did he "not have control"?
Does he have to duct tape it to himself and then carry it fifteen yards before its a catch? The rules allow for the referee to determine that a completion was made if the player plants his feet (which he did) and or tucks the ball (which he did) AND then makes a "football move" (which he did!) I was cheering for the Pack to win, but COME ON! That was a terrible call.

The only thing I could buy is that because the play was ruled a catch on the field there might not have been enough evidence to make the case that he didn't have full possession and his steps plus reach equal football move. Even then I don't think it was a terrible call.

 

[Timby]

Adam Schefter tweeted that Peyton's been playing with a torn right quad since early December.

Two things:

1) Dear God, how did the Broncos manage to keep that under wraps?

2) Dear God, how did Manning get out of bed, let alone play?

In any event, rehab from quad surgery is brutal and long, and if Manning decides he wants to come back, it's highly unlikely that he would be ready in time for camp and I'd say Week 1 is a long shot, too.

Ouch.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Rex Ryan is the new coach of the Buffalo Bills.

 

[Scout101]

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

John Fox out as Denver's head coach.

--Sran

 

[Memory Alpha]

Yeah, Fox is out. Rumor is the Bears might be interested. That's intriguing.

What's interesting to me is that Rodgers fought to a win through an injury that limited and frustrated him, whereas Manning did not. Manning is pretty clearly in decline, so it sounds like the Broncos have decisions to make and a lot of free agents who want money. Perilous times.

As to the call in the Dallas @ Green Bay game, they have been very consistent in calling that in the way that they called it, and they were consistent in this case.

 

[Timby]

What's interesting to me is that Rodgers fought to a win through an injury that limited and frustrated him, whereas Manning did not.

Rodgers was battling a calf strain. Manning spent the last month and change playing on a torn quad.

Minor difference there.

 

[Kirby]

John Fox out as Denver's head coach.

--Sran

And the rest of the coaching staff was told to feel free to look for jobs elsewhere. John Elway is cleaning house.
I'm hoping he gets the band back together (sort of): Gary Kubiak as coach, Kyle Shannahan as offensive coordinator, and what the hell, bring back Wade Phillips as d-coordinator.

 

[Timby]

I'm hoping he gets the band back together (sort of): Gary Kubiak as coach

Anyone who watched Kubiak's tenure in Houston and says, "Boy, I got to get me some of that," deserves exactly what they get. Those Houston teams got by on a strong running game and a good to great defense -- by the end of his tenure there, opposing defenses had so completely cracked Kubiak's offense that they knew what play was coming next. His Denver offenses were aided by having Elway and a sometimes-healthy Terrell Davis, too.

I think Kubiak is a fine offensive mind, and the way he turned around Baltimore's offense is proof of that. But he's overmatched as a head coach, and there's nothing wrong with that (Norv Turner's the same way).

 

[Peach Wookiee]

What's interesting to me is that Rodgers fought to a win through an injury that limited and frustrated him, whereas Manning did not.

Rodgers was battling a calf strain. Manning spent the last month and change playing on a torn quad.

Minor difference there.

That's pretty impressive. Peyton is a tough fighter.

 

[Kirby]

I'm hoping he gets the band back together (sort of): Gary Kubiak as coach

Anyone who watched Kubiak's tenure in Houston and says, "Boy, I got to get me some of that," deserves exactly what they get. Those Houston teams got by on a strong running game and a good to great defense -- by the end of his tenure there, opposing defenses had so completely cracked Kubiak's offense that they knew what play was coming next. His Denver offenses were aided by having Elway and a sometimes-healthy Terrell Davis, too.

I think Kubiak is a fine offensive mind, and the way he turned around Baltimore's offense is proof of that. But he's overmatched as a head coach, and there's nothing wrong with that (Norv Turner's the same way).

I still think he's got what it takes to be a head coach. Lots of guys had better results after their first coaching gig.

Maybe it's sentimentality because I grew up watching him as our backup, and he was always good whenever he had to come into the game. His family also went to our church, and lived somewhere in our neighborhood, so I'm probably biased.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

John Fox to interview for Chicago's HC spot.

 

[Yanks]

Bryant caught the ball, tucked the ball, took TWO steps, and the stretched the ball out to try to cross the goal line. At which point did he "not have control"?
Does he have to duct tape it to himself and then carry it fifteen yards before its a catch? The rules allow for the referee to determine that a completion was made if the player plants his feet (which he did) and or tucks the ball (which he did) AND then makes a "football move" (which he did!) I was cheering for the Pack to win, but COME ON! That was a terrible call.

I couldn't agree more.

The rule needs to be changed. Bryant caught the ball, actually took three steps while making a football move toward the end zone, and was touched by the Green Bay defender while going down. The ground cannot cause a fumble when a player goes to the ground due to contact with a defender. I understand why the refs made the ruling they did, but this is far from the first time a game has been decided by a rule that shouldn't exist as it currently does.

I agree here as well. The NFL is killing itself with too many bullshit rules that must have the officials heads spinning.

I'm not Cowboy fan and even less of a fan of Dez, but if that's not a catch then either this interpretation of the rule is wrong, the application of the appropriate rule is wrong, or the fucking rule is wrong.

He elevated, caught the ball with both hands, planted both feet and took a third step to the end zone. If anything, the review should/could have givenen him the TD. The ball DID break the plain.

Break....

My Steelers have just lost their HOF defensive coordinator... Mr. Dick Lebeau is now gone... sad day in steel town.

 

[Timby]

I still think he's got what it takes to be a head coach. Lots of guys had better results after their first coaching gig.

This gets bandied about a lot, but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true. There are outliers like Belichick, but unless it's a guy who just had a dogshit roster in his first time out as a head coach, you generally know what to expect from a guy after his initial tenure. With Kubiak, his stubborn refusal to adjust his gameplans was really a killer for Houston, and he had no idea how to compensate for Schaub's injuries. Now that it looks like everyone is getting the fuck out of Denver (in no small part due to impending cap hell), I don't think he's the coach you want for a rebuilding team.

John Fox to interview for Chicago's HC spot.

Argh, I'm torn about this. In some ways, Fox has a lot of the same qualities as Trestman -- hopelessly in love with the screen pass, refusal to go for it on fourth down, hatred of rookies, doing the same shit over and over and hoping it works on the 10th try, etc. But at the same time, he made it to a Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme.

I don't know. He's not the worst coach out there but I don't think he was really elevating the Broncos (that was Manning). Couldn't hurt to talk to him, I guess.