Next Picard novel: Second Self by Una McCormack, coming April 2022
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I do wonder what visitors think when they (can) come to Ireland as every second word out of most Irish people's mouths is the f-word. So much so that I think for us it has lost all meaning.
I did like the use of the phrase 'cheeky feckers' by the Irish Romulan on Picard.
I did like the use of the phrase 'cheeky feckers' by the Irish Romulan on Picard.
@Una McCormack thank you for your responses Dr. Una. I wasn't trying to be belittling in any way. The whole situation started as such. I was excited to read your Picard novel, preordered it. Downloaded the ebook into my ipad and started. After the first few instances, I was like what, wait a sec. Actually I didn't count the swear words, I had my kindle app on the ipad count for me. Spineless on my part I know.
I got hell in my review for giving you a 5 star review, but i felt that when you review a book, you review it on the merits of the story, language and prose is a separate issue. I felt it would be unfair to knock down a review because I didn't like the language. It's like saying here is one or two stars less because I did not like the books cover. State it, but it doesn't merit a loss in a review.
Thank you for pointing out your reasons for the language and prose. Honestly it has bothered me for a long while as to why. As you can guess I am a child of the 1980s. I wanted to understand was this edginess for the sake edginess, world building, turning Star Trek on it's ear like Miller's Dark Knight Returns? What? As you can tell that comic series influence was so profound then. It is completely overused in films today. The majority of superhero films are for instance dark and gritty, as an example. I am both glad and grateful to have the chance to communicate with you now to understand the choices you made, and why. Hopefully, I did not anger or alienate myself with the other Trek writers as I am a fan. As I stated in my review, and I will do so here now, i am true believer in Karma, and never wish bad or wrong on anyone, and only wish you continued success. As a fan of Trek, why would i want anything Trek to fail for any reason? A fan should only want success. In any event, that is completely wrong, regardless of the reason.
Thank you again for your time, and responses.
-Koric
I got hell in my review for giving you a 5 star review, but i felt that when you review a book, you review it on the merits of the story, language and prose is a separate issue. I felt it would be unfair to knock down a review because I didn't like the language. It's like saying here is one or two stars less because I did not like the books cover. State it, but it doesn't merit a loss in a review.
Thank you for pointing out your reasons for the language and prose. Honestly it has bothered me for a long while as to why. As you can guess I am a child of the 1980s. I wanted to understand was this edginess for the sake edginess, world building, turning Star Trek on it's ear like Miller's Dark Knight Returns? What? As you can tell that comic series influence was so profound then. It is completely overused in films today. The majority of superhero films are for instance dark and gritty, as an example. I am both glad and grateful to have the chance to communicate with you now to understand the choices you made, and why. Hopefully, I did not anger or alienate myself with the other Trek writers as I am a fan. As I stated in my review, and I will do so here now, i am true believer in Karma, and never wish bad or wrong on anyone, and only wish you continued success. As a fan of Trek, why would i want anything Trek to fail for any reason? A fan should only want success. In any event, that is completely wrong, regardless of the reason.
Thank you again for your time, and responses.
-Koric
I'm not "upset." I just don't understand why you are.
@Christopher nah not upset at all. Just wanted an understanding, yourself, @Greg Cox and Dr. @Una McCormack all gave it back to me. Please don't misunderstand me. As I said, I am a fan of your works, and all the Trek writers on here. Thank you for your time, communicating and responses.
Cheers.
-Koric
Cheers.
-Koric
No offense taken, and, to be fair, I don't recall this topic coming up often with regards to TrekLit, specifically. It's just that it's been debated at length with regards to the new shows themselves, in the DISCO and PICARD threads, among other places.
And I suppose there is a geographical factor here. Csalem mentioned Ireland, but, yes, it's also true that us potty-mouthed New Yorkers can forget that what's everyday, inoffensive language in Brooklyn and Manhattan may play differently elsewhere. Trust me, get a bunch of Trek writers together in a bar, and we're not going to be watching our language the way we might when speaking at a school book fair.
It's all about the context, the target audience, and characters. To my mind, there's nothing inherently positive or negative about profanity in fiction. It all depends on the context. Superman is not going to swear like a soldier, but a down-and-dirty resistance fighter in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? They're probably not going to shy away from rough language.
And I suppose there is a geographical factor here. Csalem mentioned Ireland, but, yes, it's also true that us potty-mouthed New Yorkers can forget that what's everyday, inoffensive language in Brooklyn and Manhattan may play differently elsewhere. Trust me, get a bunch of Trek writers together in a bar, and we're not going to be watching our language the way we might when speaking at a school book fair.
It's all about the context, the target audience, and characters. To my mind, there's nothing inherently positive or negative about profanity in fiction. It all depends on the context. Superman is not going to swear like a soldier, but a down-and-dirty resistance fighter in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? They're probably not going to shy away from rough language.
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Off-stage, you just KNOW Scotty was cursing a blue streak whenever the impulse engines were acting up.
Are you suggesting that it is not, in fact, the case that the reason no one can find a definition or prior use of "borgas frat!" is that it's a Scots profanity of such heart-stopping obscenity that no one has ever dared write it down?
I was taken to task by someone offended that a character in Available Light said "Damn it," even going so far as to tell me they now felt compelled to screen all Star Trek books at the library rather than shopping online.
That email went in my personal Review Hall of Fame.
That email went in my personal Review Hall of Fame.
Joe Biden was famously caught on camera, at the Affordable Care Act signing in 2010, saying, "This is a big fucking deal." He was just Vice President then, but that's how Biden talks. You know he's dropping f-bombs.
Crooked Media last month launched a drama podcast, Edith!, starring Rosamund Pike as Edith Wilson, the second wife of Woodrow Wilson, and it's hilarious -- and linguistically filthy. Did the real Edith Wilson curse like a sailor? I have no idea. But I love hearing Pike's Edith Wilson dropping f-bombs.
Edith!, by the way, is absolutely fantastic. The cast is great (Pike, Clark Gregg, Deidrich Bader, Stephen D. Root, D'Arcy Carden), and if you have any interest in what happened in the aftermath of Woodrow Wilson's stroke in 1919, you'd probably enjoy this. Best political comedy-drama since BrainDead, assuming you liked BrainDead. (Which I did.)
Profanity has been pretty common in Trek Lit for awhile now, since the early 2000s at least. Even fuck was used in the novels quite a few times before that fateful Disco episode where Tilly declared the spore drive to be fucking cool. And now that the franchise has plenty of profanity onscreen, there really is no reason for the novels to be exempt of it. Hell, the first season of Picard had fuck spoken something like a dozen times, it only makes sense that its tie-in novels would include profanity.
Although I will note something I picked up on in the first season of Picard was that it was only the new characters who were saying fuck. Those returning from the other shows only stuck with TV network friendly profanity, with the most extreme thing being spoken by any of them being Riker saying Ass. Although, we already had Data saying Shit in Generations.
Although I will note something I picked up on in the first season of Picard was that it was only the new characters who were saying fuck. Those returning from the other shows only stuck with TV network friendly profanity, with the most extreme thing being spoken by any of them being Riker saying Ass. Although, we already had Data saying Shit in Generations.
I was taken to task by someone offended that a character in Available Light said "Damn it," even going so far as to tell me they now felt compelled to screen all Star Trek books at the library rather than shopping online.
That email went in my personal Review Hall of Fame.
Was it the use of "damn it" or was it the specific character using it that irked them? If the latter, which character (if you recall)? The details will make this story even funnier, I'm sure.
I don't recall the specifics. Just that they took exception to words "as 'Damn it' on page 159" and that I should refrain from that sort of thing because they were a Christian and disliked such words.
They're in for a shock whenever they get around to watching the shows.
They're in for a shock whenever they get around to watching the shows.
Waxing nostalgic: I remember discussing this issue with my dad as far back as 1972, when he noticed that the language in the book I was reading was a bit strong for a tween. ("Are you screwing my wife, you bastard!" That sorta thing.) Rather than scold me or take the book away, he used this as a teaching opportunity to explain that, while there were certain words and phrases I probably shouldn't use at school or at home, sometimes writers had to use "bad" words if it fit the character or the situation, just for the sake of realism and believability. Never forgotten that.
For the record, btw, the book in question was the novelization of DR. PHIBES RISES AGAIN. Who says tie-in novels can't be educational?
For the record, btw, the book in question was the novelization of DR. PHIBES RISES AGAIN. Who says tie-in novels can't be educational?
I don't recall the specifics. Just that they took exception to words "as 'Damn it' on page 159" and that I should refrain from that sort of thing because they were a Christian and disliked such words.
They're in for a shock whenever they get around to watching the shows.
I just did a search in my kindle for 'damn it' specifically, and variations of 'damn' appear 27 times in Available Light. This person must have had a major cow. Unfortunately, I only have location numbers and not page numbers in my version so I can't easily figure out which particular one was the last straw.
I remember having picked up specifically from watching Star Trek “my God” and “what the hell” as a child and repeating them (on separate occasions) in... second, maybe third grade, and getting a brief “we don’t use that language” talk from my teachers.
It did end up making me avoid using any serious profanities through much of the rest of my K-12 experience, and greatly enjoying the occasions when my friends learned that, yes, actually, I DO curse, because it allowed for precision dropping of f-bombs.
Nowadays, I’m pretty free with those in particular when I’m angry. Which just goes in to those discussions of why THESE words are considered taboo but THOSE aren’t - a word about a basic biological action is one of our most restricted words, but “hell,” a place of eternal damnation and torment (depending on your scripture), is one of the more casual ones. You would think it’d be the other way around, right?
It did end up making me avoid using any serious profanities through much of the rest of my K-12 experience, and greatly enjoying the occasions when my friends learned that, yes, actually, I DO curse, because it allowed for precision dropping of f-bombs.
Nowadays, I’m pretty free with those in particular when I’m angry. Which just goes in to those discussions of why THESE words are considered taboo but THOSE aren’t - a word about a basic biological action is one of our most restricted words, but “hell,” a place of eternal damnation and torment (depending on your scripture), is one of the more casual ones. You would think it’d be the other way around, right?
Confession: As an editor, I've occasionally asked an author to tone down some profanity, but only because I was afraid it might hurt our chances of making a lucrative Scholastic Book Club deal. And only with books that struck me as having plenty of YA crossover appeal.
But that wasn't an aesthetic choice, just a business consideration!
(Although I gather that nowadays you can get away with a lot more in YA fiction than you could back in the day.)
But that wasn't an aesthetic choice, just a business consideration!
(Although I gather that nowadays you can get away with a lot more in YA fiction than you could back in the day.)
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I can’t remember if the first time I saw “shit” in print was the TMP novelization or TekWar, but either way, Trek!
