News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman

[Romulan_spy]

One of the great things about these crossover is that it is an opportunity for the shows to just dial up the comic book-ness, the easter eggs, and the self-referential humor to a 15. It is an absolute delight to watch!

The first part was great. I especially loved the kent farm scenes. I was very nice to finally meet Lois and get more scenes between Clark and Kara. I also loved the battle with Amazo. Felt like a TV Justice League!

Part 2 was really great too. Loved Oliver's line about Batman being a myth because the Green Arrow is the original vigilante. That's probably a comic book reference I am missing or Oliver is just jealous that there might be a more famous vigilante out there. Yeah, I would definitely watch a Batwoman series. The episode did a great job of showing us what Gotham City is like. Batwoman was great.

Can't wait for Part 3!! Evil Superman!! It's going to be epic!!

But here's my question: if the Monitor is testing alternate realities to find someone worthy of saving the multiverse from the coming crisis why isn't he using the Book of Destiny to directly control this testing? Why let some mad scientist screw around with it when there is a chance he is not going to do it right?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Pivoting back to Kate, I love the backstory they set up for her with her having taken over Bruce's company, although her seemingly being unaware of why he left Gotham and where he went despite obviously being aware of his activities and identity as Batman seemed a little bit "off" to me.

Why the assumption that Kate didn't know? There's no reason for Kate to share information about Bruce of that nature with three complete strangers.

Which makes Batman the only superhero confirmed to exist on both Earth-1 and Earth-38.

I've been struggling with Kara's line to Kate (paraphrased) about how "your cousin is my cousin's best frenemy," because I'm not sure that it works. If Kara was saying that Clark is "best frenemies" with Earth-38 Bruce, then she's telling what is, to Kate, an obvious lie that Kate could call her out on. (Kate's probable thought: "Who is this person to claim that her cousin is best friends with my cousin? I know my cousin, and he doesn't have friends. I don't know her.") Or, Kara could be saying that Earth-1 Batman and Earth-38 Superman used to team up regularly, so that Kara isn't telling what is, to Kate, a lie, but I had the distinct impression that Part 1 was the first time Earth-38 Superman had been to Earth-1, and I didn't think that travel between the two Earths was that common. (Though, I suppose a person on Earth-1 whose ex-wife lives on Earth-38 suggests that it is.)

Basically, I'm left wondering if the line was a relic from an earlier draft of the script, that maybe the intention for this segment of the story was that it took place on Earth-38 and the line was meant to convey in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way to Kate that Kara knew right off who Bruce Wayne really was.

I think they should have done that, but I see no reason not to keep it small scale. Supergirl runs into the "why isn't Superman there" problem all the time. The different city doesn't help when there is a threat that requires his attention. I think it makes Batman look very bad if he simply abandons Gotham--unless he had a good reason, and I think that "he disappeared" isn't a good reason.

My brain immediately went to a very good reason, indeed. Perhaps there was a Damian Wayne in this world, and perhaps Talia had killed him (like in Batman Incorporated Volume 2), and the loss of his son prompted Bruce to hang up his cowl and walk away from his life.

 

[Christopher]

Part 2 was really great too. Loved Oliver's line about Batman being a myth because the Green Arrow is the original vigilante. That's probably a comic book reference I am missing or Oliver is just jealous that there might be a more famous vigilante out there.

No, it's just a way to reconcile the addition of Batman with prior Arrowverse continuity. Arrow always treated Oliver's vigilantism as a novelty, something he was inventing as he went. It was presumed that he was the first costumed superhero on Earth-1. So revealing that Batman existed all along is a major retcon. Treating Batman as an urban myth, someone who was never confirmed to exist, helps resolve that discrepancy.

But here's my question: if the Monitor is testing alternate realities to find someone worthy of saving the multiverse from the coming crisis why isn't he using the Book of Destiny to directly control this testing? Why let some mad scientist screw around with it when there is a chance he is not going to do it right?

I would assume that it would interfere with his test if he intervened so directly. I guess he's testing Deegan too.

I've been struggling with Kara's line to Kate (paraphrased) about how "your cousin is my cousin's best frenemy," because I'm not sure that it works. If Kara was saying that Clark is "best frenemies" with Earth-38 Bruce, then she's telling what is, to Kate, an obvious lie that Kate could call her out on. (Kate's probable thought: "Who is this person to claim that her cousin is best friends with my cousin? I know my cousin, and he doesn't have friends. I don't know her.") Or, Kara could be saying that Earth-1 Batman and Earth-38 Superman used to team up regularly, so that Kara isn't telling what is, to Kate, a lie, but I had the distinct impression that Part 1 was the first time Earth-38 Superman had been to Earth-1, and I didn't think that travel between the two Earths was that common. (Though, I suppose a person on Earth-1 whose ex-wife lives on Earth-38 suggests that it is.)

Kara didn't say "best." As I recall, her line was, "My cousin is friends with Bruce Wayne. Well, frenemies." This is consistent with two prior references in Supergirl to Clark's vigilante friend who had "lots of gadgets and lots of issues," and who wore a pointed-eared cowl, judging from a gesture that Winn made once when alluding to him. Now we have confirmation that it was Batman being referred to in those instances, making him the first superhero known to have incarnations on both Earth-1 and Earth-38.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Why the assumption that Kate didn't know? There's no reason for Kate to share information about Bruce of that nature with three complete strangers.

For me, that would be a good thing if Kate did know. It would be smart to discuss it early, and deal with it. Give Batman a purpose other than "he mysteriously disappeared." That's kind of lame and a cop out. But if Kate knows where he is and why is he gone, and is protecting Gotham per his wishes, that changes a lot for the better.

But there are other questions like where are Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Alfred, Tim Drake, etc.

I've been struggling with Kara's line to Kate (paraphrased) about how "your cousin is my cousin's best frenemy," because I'm not sure that it works. If Kara was saying that Clark is "best frenemies" with Earth-38 Bruce, then she's telling what is, to Kate, an obvious lie that Kate could call her out on. (Kate's probable thought: "Who is this person to claim that her cousin is best friends with my cousin? I know my cousin, and he doesn't have friends. I don't know her.") Or, Kara could be saying that Earth-1 Batman and Earth-38 Superman used to team up regularly, so that Kara isn't telling what is, to Kate, a lie, but I had the distinct impression that Part 1 was the first time Earth-38 Superman had been to Earth-1, and I didn't think that travel between the two Earths was that common. (Though, I suppose a person on Earth-1 whose ex-wife lives on Earth-38 suggests that it is.)

This was a poorly written scene that could have been fixed with one line. You're absolutely right. But Earth 1 Batman and Earth 38 Superman teaming up makes little sense, and there is no indication that anyone on Earth 38 dealt with other Earths until Barry met Kara. Not that it's a bad thing.

I feel like Batman or at least Gotham does exist on Earth 38. I prefer, and it's much easier, if Superman is friends with Earth 38's Batman, who could be quite active on Earth 38. In fact, I wish they would actually state that.

You would also think that if Earth 38 Superman visited Earth 1, then there was a purpose behind it, and he did Superman things, which would have made him known. I believe Kara is known on Earth 1.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Kara didn't say "best." As I recall, her line was, "My cousin is friends with Bruce Wayne. Well, frenemies."

That's fine. I did caution, parenthetically, that it was a paraphrase.

This is consistent with two prior references in Supergirl to Clark's vigilante friend who had "lots of gadgets and lots of issues," and who wore a pointed-eared cowl, judging from a gesture that Winn made once when alluding to him. Now we have confirmation that it was Batman being referred to in those instances, making him the first superhero known to have incarnations on both Earth-1 and Earth-38.

That's fine. I'm just questioning the wisdom of Kara asserting a connection, however tenuous, to Bruce Wayne to his cousin, when the tenuous connection that she has is with a Bruce Wayne on another Earth entirely. Kara may not have been thinking that Kate could have called her out on what was to Kate a lie. Or Kate may have simply treated Kara's remark as, "Oh, everyone claims some like to Bruce because he's rich, famous, and a recluse." I agree with Kirk Prime; it's an awkwardly written scene.

 

[DigificWriter]

Why the assumption that Kate didn't know?

Because of her dialogue, her behavior, and some audition sides that specifically detail her trying to learn his whereabouts and details regarding his disappearance .

 

[Christopher]

That's fine. I did caution, parenthetically, that it was a paraphrase.

My point is, you were saying that Kate would surely know who Bruce's best friend was, which is true enough, but if Kara's cousin were just a friend rather than his best friend, then it's more plausible that Kate wouldn't instantly spot the discrepancy. So it matters that she didn't say "best." A person only has one best friend, but can have multiple more casual friends.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

My point is, you were saying that Kate would surely know who Bruce's best friend was, which is true enough, but if Kara's cousin were just a friend rather than his best friend, then it's more plausible that Kate wouldn't instantly spot the discrepancy. So it matters that she didn't say "best." A person only has one best friend, but can have multiple more casual friends.

I'm chuckling at the idea that Bruce Wayne actually has friends, of any degree of familiarity, of the non-caped variety. I suppose there are continuities where that happens and, frankly, we know very little of the Bruce of Earth-1.

I see where you're coming from, I disagree with it as I believe Kara was on uncertain conversational ground (whether she recognized that or not), but I don't want to belabor this conversation.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's perhaps worth noting that Batwoman debuted during Batman's absence is consistent with the original comics, during which Batwoman first appeared during the "52" event in which Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman all went AWOL for a full year.

 

[SAndrews10]

Well the closing line of Batwoman and Supergirl's conversation is suspect too where Batwoman calls her out for being Kara Danvers...she must have some knowledge of the players on Earth 38

 

[Nerys Myk]

Part 2 was really great too. Loved Oliver's line about Batman being a myth because the Green Arrow is the original vigilante. That's probably a comic book reference I am missing or Oliver is just jealous that there might be a more famous vigilante out there.

It's probably a nod to the fact GA is seen as a Batman ripoff both in universe and out.

 

[Marc]

Well the closing line of Batwoman and Supergirl's conversation is suspect too where Batwoman calls her out for being Kara Danvers...she must have some knowledge of the players on Earth 38

Or she put 2 and 2 together about the blonde woman who with was Barry Allen and Oliver Queen.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Looking for pictures of young David Ramsey was surprised to see he played Muhammad Ali in a TV movie in 2000. Even has perfect view of his hands to add a ring!

 

[Christopher]

I'm chuckling at the idea that Bruce Wayne actually has friends, of any degree of familiarity, of the non-caped variety.

Bruce Wayne, the actual person? Probably not. But billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne, the public persona, no doubt has plenty of casual friends. You can't be a playboy without a wide social circle.

Well the closing line of Batwoman and Supergirl's conversation is suspect too where Batwoman calls her out for being Kara Danvers...she must have some knowledge of the players on Earth 38

No -- when Supergirl referred back to the earlier conversation that Kate and Kara had had about their cousins, she was basically admitting to Batwoman that she was Kara Danvers, because Kara was the only person who would have knowledge of that conversation.

 

[Reverend]

Well the closing line of Batwoman and Supergirl's conversation is suspect too where Batwoman calls her out for being Kara Danvers...she must have some knowledge of the players on Earth 38

No, I think that was just deduction.

It's perhaps worth noting that Batwoman debuted during Batman's absence is consistent with the original comics, during which Batwoman first appeared during the "52" event in which Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman all went AWOL for a full year.

I wonder if the show will bake Kate deeper into Bruce's backstory. I mean in the comics she just basically came out of nowhere and never felt right to me, especially given she had next to nothing to do with the already established Bat Family.

The down side of that of course is if they cast Kate as being close with Bruce when they were younger (though I get the impression there's a not so insignificant age gap) it kind of undermines the notion of Bruce being a loner with no family, at least until Robin.

Actually, now that I think about it doesn't Kate's dad inherently present a problem since as Martha's brother (I assume?) wouldn't he have been Bruce's next of kin after his parent's murder? If so then why would he have been left in the custody of an employee instead of a blood relative?

 

[Kirk Prime]

My point is, you were saying that Kate would surely know who Bruce's best friend was, which is true enough, but if Kara's cousin were just a friend rather than his best friend, then it's more plausible that Kate wouldn't instantly spot the discrepancy. So it matters that she didn't say "best." A person only has one best friend, but can have multiple more casual friends.

If Bruce even ASSOCIATED with SUPERMAN, it would be silly to think that Bruce's closest confidants wouldn't know. I don't believe that Batwoman is operating without Batman's knowledge and consent, which means she should be in his circle of trust.

They really should have just had a line in there from Kara stating she knew Batman on HER Earth, he was quite real, and that she knows that if there is a Bruce Wayne here, odds are, if there is also a Batman, it's him.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Arrowverse's writers shouldn't have to - and very rarely do - "hold the audience's hand"; most of the people watching are smart enough to figure out what the context of Kara's comment was without having to be force-fed some expository handwave clarification, but beyond that, we see at the conclusion of the episode that Superman does in fact exist on Earth-1 (along with at least Lois, Alex, Kara, and James, as per the preview trailer), since there's nothing to indicate that Deegan's alteration of reality allows him to just 'wish' people into existence.

 

[dahj]

Not enough Batwoman!

Yeah, yeah, I get that this was supposed to be just a tease for a potential show, but darn I want more. I hope we get an announcement soon about the show going forward and not just the pilot.

Anyway, another neat installment, the Gotham excursion was fun, the banter between the trio was golden, I hope Ollie gets out of this more lighthearted because Amell does comedy well and it'd be a shame if he just went back to his brooding self on Arrow. Lots of fun references and easter eggs sprinkled throughout, it's shaping up to be an all round joyful crossover celebrating this universe, its fans and the entire DC heritage.

As for the ending, and form the promo for the final part I kinda got the feeling that

Spoiler: spoilering some speculation just in case

Black Suit Superman isn't Superman at all, rather Deegan body-swapped with him.
Or body-copied more likely since Superman went back to Earth-38

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Such convoluted storytelling isn't necessary when the simplest - and therefore most likely - explanation is that the Arrowverse is finally introducing the Earth-1 versions of Supergirl's characters.

 

[JD]

I knew a pair who would switch each other classes in middle school to mess with the teachers.

So tonight’s episode

Spoiler

I wonder if Barry-90 was implying John was a Green Lantern on Earth-90.

That was the impression I got.

Oh shit, I'm an idiot. I can't believe I didn't pick up on that, I thought he was referring to the ring with the Flash costume, which really confused me.

If that was IT for Flash 90 I am really pissed!

Me too, I was shocked how quickly they got rid of him.

The part that didn't quite work for me was the Scarecrow fear gas making Barry and Oliver hallucinate each other's fears. How is that supposed to work? It acts on the mind, and their minds are still their own. I get that the intent was to give them insight into each other's darkest fears, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, it's hard to buy that Barry without superpowers could handle getting beaten up by Oliver with superspeed.

Yeah, that bugged me too.

Plus, why was Killer Frost incapacitated by Mr. Freeze's cold gun? It should've strengthened her.

[/SPOILER]

I got the impression it might have been the impact rather than the cold that took her out.

SRegarding Bruce Wayne--I think the writers messed up slightly here, and confused the viewers. I interpreted things so far as follows--because Barry and Oliver don't know Superman, there is no Superman on Earth 1. Either that, or he hasn't debuted yet. And likely no Kara either. I'm fine with that, but Kara said that Superman and Batman are frenemies. That means that there is also a Batman on Earth 38.

That means one of two things--either there are 2 Bruce Waynes--one on each Earth, or Bruce Wayne of Earth 1 ended up on Earth 38 and set up shop there. Of course--Batman's superpower is that he's rich, and it might have been hard to set up the Batcave, Wayne Manor, etc., on another EARTH.

So more likely, there are two Bruce Waynes. But the question then is--why didn't the writers just clarify that?

I thought it was crystal clear that she was talking about Earth-38 Batman, it never even crossed my mind it could have been the Earth-1 version. There have been references to Batman in Supergirl going all the way back to the first season, before E-38 and E-1 were connected, so it's a pretty well established fact at this point that there is Batman on Earth-38.

For me, that would be a good thing if Kate did know. It would be smart to discuss it early, and deal with it. Give Batman a purpose other than "he mysteriously disappeared." That's kind of lame and a cop out. But if Kate knows where he is and why is he gone, and is protecting Gotham per his wishes, that changes a lot for the better.

But there are other questions like where are Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Alfred, Tim Drake, etc.

I'm don't think she knows, that all felt to me like a set up for a story arc with Kate/Batwoman investigating Bruce's disappearance on her own show.

This one was just as good as part 1.
Loved all the stuff in Gotham, with Kate and the visit to Arkham as highlights.
I loved all the Easter Eggs in Arkham, like Bane's mask, and the Scarecrow fear gas. I couldn't tell, what were all the names on the cells? The only one I was able to make out was Nygma E.
Love Ruby Rose as Kate Kane/Batwoman, and I'm definitely looking forward to her show. I did think her and Kara being so buddy buddy after only one conversation.
Does anybody know if that was a specific building they were using as the Wayne building.
I was a little surprised they actually dealt with Felicity and Oliver's issues, after they seemed to make a point of avoiding all of that kind of stuff in The Flash. Luckily it didn't get to much of a focus, and didn't drag down the crossover stuff.