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News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman

^ When the only argument against believing, based on what we know, that Eleseworlds Part 3 finally introduces the E1 doppelgangers of Supergirl-related characters is as weak-sauce as "the Earth-1 characters we know have never heard of E1 versions of Superman, Alex, etc.", i think it's time to find a new argument... especially when Elseworlds P2 establishes that the absence of knowledge is not by itself proof of nonexistence.
 
DigificWriter said:
^ When the only argument against believing, based on what we know, that Eleseworlds Part 3 finally introduces the E1 doppelgangers of Supergirl-related characters is as weak-sauce as "the Earth-1 characters we know have never heard of E1 versions of Superman, Alex, etc.", i think it's time to find a new argument... especially when Elseworlds P2 establishes that the absence of knowledge is not by itself proof of nonexistence.
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The show already suggested that Deegan can see everything, including other Earths.
 
Happy Harleydays said:
They're on Krypton, introducing them to Earth-1 would be the convoluted thing to do... :p
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JD said:
I'm pretty sure if they existed on Earth-1 they probably would have established it by now.
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Well...during the last crossover Oliver had a kryptonite arrow, correct? So logically it would follow that Krypton-1 has also gone kerboom and fragments have made their way to Earth-1. Typically this is attributed to baby Kal's and/or Kara's ship taking them along for the right via a wormhole, the phantom zone or some-such. Point being, they don't tend to get here on their own, because space is *really* big and rocks move very very slowly (relatively speaking.)

So it's not that much of a stretch to think Earth-1 Clark is *very* shy and sneaky or simply not yet left the fortress, while Earth-1 Kara is either still in stasis, never made it off Krypton or grew up on and still lives on Argo. (Fingers crossed for Power Girl.)

Not that I think this is necessarily what's going on here. That's probably just Earth-38 Clark, but the possibility exists. Hell, for all we know it's possible they're building up to Earth-1 & 38 merging, which would make this all unnecessary.
 
DigificWriter said:
Why make that assumption?
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Because they have not hesitated to bring in other doppelgangers, and as close as Barry is to Kara-38, I would think they would have found a way to pair him with Kara-1 by now if they were going to.
 
JD said:
Because they have not hesitated to bring in other doppelgangers, and as close as Barry is to Kara-38, I would think they would have found a way to pair him with Kara-1 by now if they were going to.
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It's very intentional that they never brought in Earth 1 versions of the Superman family. I actually love the idea of the Kryptonians being younger on this Earth, so Clark hasn't debuted yet and Kara is still in space.
 
JD said:
Because they have not hesitated to bring in other doppelgangers, and as close as Barry is to Kara-38, I would think they would have found a way to pair him with Kara-1 by now if they were going to.
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I disagree, especially given what Elseworlds P2 established regarding Batman.
 
I like to think that the Kryptonians in the Earth one universe actually listened to Jor-El and took sensible precautions against the environmental disasters that he was warning them against and that the Kryptonians in that universe are living happy peaceful lives on their home planet.

Far-fetched? Absolutely. Even in a multiverse with kryptonians and speedsters, elongated men, time travelers and sorcerers. But one can dream right?
 
Introducing a Superman and a Supergirl, in any sort of permanent way, on Earth 1 will cause headaches for story telling in two shows instead of one (Supergirl). Why doesn't Superman come and save Ollie or Barry or Star City or Central City from the Global threat of the season?

Maybe they can do what they did on Supergirl and knock Superman out and we can stare at his boots.

Why introduce them in any permanent way? What story telling advantage does it serve the ongoing shows?
 
Professor Zoom said:
Introducing a Superman and a Supergirl, in any sort of permanent way, on Earth 1 will cause headaches for story telling in two shows instead of one (Supergirl). Why doesn't Superman come and save Ollie or Barry or Star City or Central City from the Global threat of the season?

Why introduce them in any permanent way? What story telling advantage does it serve the ongoing shows?
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This is a strawman argument that means nothing.

As for what storytelling advantage is gained from introducing those characters, even in a one-off capacity that isn't reflective of their normal personas, the advantage is that it deepens the worldbuilding.
 
Full thoughts on Part 2 of the crossover

Outside of Batwoman being kind of crap, and Felicity drama that I still cannot stand, this was a very good episode. All of the Batman references were amazing, especially the stuff in Arkham. Oliver denying that Batman exists, apparently because he wants to be the first Earth-1 vigilante, was hilarious, and Barry's "Batman does exist" line after they saw the Bat Signal was great.

There are too many references to comment on specifically in depth on all of them, but I liked them all. The names on arkham cells, various Bat Villain items (like Mr. freeze's gun, Scarecrow's serum and Bane's mask), and the Shakespeare statue were all great. Also, I'm glad they acknowledged that Kara knows (or at least knows of) Batman and his secret identity from her world

Ovverall this was a bit weaker because of the introduced character being a flop in my opinion, but it was a very good episode overall and I'm still loving this crossover.
 
Professor Zoom said:
Introducing a Superman and a Supergirl, in any sort of permanent way, on Earth 1 will cause headaches for story telling in two shows instead of one (Supergirl). Why doesn't Superman come and save Ollie or Barry or Star City or Central City from the Global threat of the season?
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You could say the same thing about some the comics.
I have feeling they might merge the universes next Crossover.
 
The key difference between Earth-1 and Earth-38 isn't just the presence of Kryptonians, it's the presence of aliens in general. Earth-38 has a sizeable population of alien immigrants from numerous worlds, yet Earth-1 has no known alien visitations besides the Dominators in the 20th-21st centuries and the Thanagarians in the 22nd. The fact that the Earth-1 US government didn't already have a DEO-type bureau, just the nasty Man in Black guy, suggests that they didn't have frequent enough alien visitations to justify one.

So the question goes well beyond Krypton. Why does Earth-38 get so much more immigration than any other world we know of? Given how many of the aliens on Earth-38 are refugees from war-torn or devastated worlds, I suspect there's some evil force out there that's been ravaging the universe. Maybe in Earth-1's universe, that destructive force isn't there, or is kept in check by the Green Lanterns (who are implied to exist through a reference to a disappeared Ferris Air test pilot), so the aliens are content to stay at home, or they go to other haven worlds that were destroyed in universe 38. And so maybe there's some alien race in universe 1 that was able to stop Krypton's destruction.
 
Christopher said:
The key difference between Earth-1 and Earth-38 isn't just the presence of Kryptonians, it's the presence of aliens in general. Earth-38 has a sizeable population of alien immigrants from numerous worlds, yet Earth-1 has no known alien visitations besides the Dominators in the 20th-21st centuries and the Thanagarians in the 22nd. The fact that the Earth-1 US government didn't already have a DEO-type bureau, just the nasty Man in Black guy, suggests that they didn't have frequent enough alien visitations to justify one.

So the question goes well beyond Krypton. Why does Earth-38 get so much more immigration than any other world we know of? Given how many of the aliens on Earth-38 are refugees from war-torn or devastated worlds, I suspect there's some evil force out there that's been ravaging the universe. Maybe in Earth-1's universe, that destructive force isn't there, or is kept in check by the Green Lanterns (who are implied to exist through a reference to a disappeared Ferris Air test pilot), so the aliens are content to stay at home, or they go to other haven worlds that were destroyed in universe 38. And so maybe there's some alien race in universe 1 that was able to stop Krypton's destruction.
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Alternate possibility: Earth-1's DEO is *much* more aggressive and effective at discouraging alien migration than Earth-38's. There could be alien internment camps on Earth-1 that nobody even knows about.
 
DigificWriter said:
This is a strawman argument that means nothing.
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It’s literally not a straw man argument. I’m not creating a false argument to knock down.

Superman ‘s existence was a story telling problem in the first Season of Supergirl. Especially when it was a big problem.
As for what storytelling advantage is gained from introducing those characters, even in a one-off capacity that isn't reflective of their normal personas, the advantage is that it deepens the worldbuilding.
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A one off? Sure. But making them permanent, even if off camera, members of Earth 1, while it might deepen, to what end? Superman solves problems. If there’s a big global problem, why wouldn’t the team call Superman to help? Then we have to come up with silly reasons why we can’t or don’t want to.

More problems than its worth.
 
Tuskin38 said:
You could say the same thing about some the comics.
I have feeling they might merge the universes next Crossover.
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Yeah, but in comics, you can say why Superman can’t come, he’s off fighting Luthor and you can read about it.

They might. But I remember the DC comics universe trying to adjust itself post Crisis, the first one, and that was a bit of a mess trying to resolve those continuity issues. Oh, Hawkman. What would be like for the different shows?
 
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