I was just looking through a list of episodes on wikipedia...is "Venomous" the season one finale? Or is it just a mid-season finale?
New Spider-Man cartoon: Ultimate Spider-Man
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Spider-Ham!!!!! Loki confronting Spider-Man while eating a hot dog for some reason reminds me of a panel that I'm pretty sure is straight out of a comic during JMS' run. Don't remember the exact issue though.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/07/06/spider-ham-comes-to-ultimate-spider-man-thanks-to-loki/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/07/06/spider-ham-comes-to-ultimate-spider-man-thanks-to-loki/
Haven't we already seen Spider-Ham once in this show, in that episode that gave us glimpses of alternate universes?
Regarding Ian's 'identity' politics comment, while I do agree that people of various diverse backgrounds can, and do, identity with white male characters like Cap, Thor, and Iron Man, then the same could be said that they can also identity with characters like Black Widow, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, and White Tiger, etc. as well. So why not include characters of diverse backgrounds, if you are trying to appeal to people of diverse backgrounds? So I don't think the issue is whether non-white or females (non-white and white) can identify with white male characters-that has been proven quite a bit-but the reverse is still a dicey prospect, especially when the inclusion of non-white or non-white male characters draws complaints about 'diversity for the sake of diversity' or political correctness run amok.
I think it's pretty easy for some folks to get huffy about diversity and make these kind of arguments when it's likely that their ethnic/racial/gender group is extremely well represented, or at times overrepresented, in comics, cartoons, and just about every other form of media. I'm a black guy and I do enjoy seeing black superheroes. Because as much as I enjoy white superheroes there are times I have felt like an outsider looking in, especially when those white (male and female) superheroes are surrounded by an overtly white supporting cast. And if you're lucky you might get a black or non-white person thrown in here or there, but they are usually marginal characters. So to see a black character, a hero/heroine at that, and someone making a difference, yeah, that does appeal to me.
As for the cartoon, I'm just starting to watch it. I think it's okay. I like the animation, though all the talking to the audience-breaking the fourth wall-stuff took some getting used to. I do think they need to do a better job with Luke Cage, but the other young heroes seem to be fairing better in terms of characterization. I don't think it's as good as Spectacular Spider-Man, and definitely not as good as the FOX series from the 90s, but the animation trumps both.
I think it's pretty easy for some folks to get huffy about diversity and make these kind of arguments when it's likely that their ethnic/racial/gender group is extremely well represented, or at times overrepresented, in comics, cartoons, and just about every other form of media. I'm a black guy and I do enjoy seeing black superheroes. Because as much as I enjoy white superheroes there are times I have felt like an outsider looking in, especially when those white (male and female) superheroes are surrounded by an overtly white supporting cast. And if you're lucky you might get a black or non-white person thrown in here or there, but they are usually marginal characters. So to see a black character, a hero/heroine at that, and someone making a difference, yeah, that does appeal to me.
As for the cartoon, I'm just starting to watch it. I think it's okay. I like the animation, though all the talking to the audience-breaking the fourth wall-stuff took some getting used to. I do think they need to do a better job with Luke Cage, but the other young heroes seem to be fairing better in terms of characterization. I don't think it's as good as Spectacular Spider-Man, and definitely not as good as the FOX series from the 90s, but the animation trumps both.
They showed a bunch of stuff for this during the Marvel TV panel. They started off with some art of Spider and co fighting Lizard, Beeltle, Rhino, and Electro. After this was a complete, or at least a lot of, an episode. In the episode Spider-Man eats a sandwich which Loki cursed so that he would turn into Spider-Ham. It turns out the Asgardians are getting ready for a wild boar hunt for a feast, and Spider-Ham is the boar. Thor shows up to help, and by the end, "the son of Coul", Fury, the Helicarrier, and Spider-Ham's teammates all get involved.
I've been as patient with USM as I could, but this week's episode really bored and annoyed me. While the show has generally been a bit goofy and superficial, at least I've usually been able to recognize the Peter Parker/Spidey I knew. Here he just seemed out of character and replaced by a cliche. The guy whose mantra is about responsibility and who's also a science geek, and he blows off a science fair for three weeks? And the threat was silly and uninteresting and the resolution was very predictable. Not to mention that they got Juggernaut's powers wrong. Removing his helmet doesn't remove his powers, it just leaves him vulnerable to psychic attack. Although, okay, I can understand the need to shorthand that one since they don't have a psychic on the team. Still, in the context of an episode that just felt wrong on a lot of levels, it wasn't something I felt inclined to excuse.
I'm also getting tired of how the "Marvel Insider" segments pad the hour out with an extra 15 minutes of not-very-interesting material -- especially since a lot of it lately is reruns. It dilutes the stories too much. I should probably start recording these so I can fast-forward through those bits. And I might end up just recording Avengers and not bothering with USM.
I'm also getting tired of how the "Marvel Insider" segments pad the hour out with an extra 15 minutes of not-very-interesting material -- especially since a lot of it lately is reruns. It dilutes the stories too much. I should probably start recording these so I can fast-forward through those bits. And I might end up just recording Avengers and not bothering with USM.
Anyone still watching this? I'm still not enjoying it much, but there was a really nice touch this week. The episode featured Damage Control, the company that cleans up after superhero/villain battles, which was created by the late Dwayne McDuffie. In the show's version, Damage Control was headed by a man named Mac -- who, allowing for stylization, was a dead ringer for Dwayne McDuffie! I thought that was an excellent tribute. (Didn't sound like him, though; he was played by the booming Kevin Michael Richardson, but as I recall from the one time I met him, McDuffie was very soft-spoken.)
Anyway, something occurred to me while watching this one, another of the episodes written by the "Man of Action" foursome. Apparently MoA has a habit of writing lead characters who are juvenile, snarky, and have a lot to learn about judgment and responsibility. The leads of Ben 10 and Generator Rex both fit that mold. But now they're writing Spidey the same way, and his constant blowing off of even the most basic responsibilities just doesn't fit a character who learned the most profound possible lesson about responsibility at the very start of his superhero career. I'm really getting tired of it. At this point I'm not sure why I'm still watching.
Anyway, something occurred to me while watching this one, another of the episodes written by the "Man of Action" foursome. Apparently MoA has a habit of writing lead characters who are juvenile, snarky, and have a lot to learn about judgment and responsibility. The leads of Ben 10 and Generator Rex both fit that mold. But now they're writing Spidey the same way, and his constant blowing off of even the most basic responsibilities just doesn't fit a character who learned the most profound possible lesson about responsibility at the very start of his superhero career. I'm really getting tired of it. At this point I'm not sure why I'm still watching.
I enjoy the show basically as an amusing, light hearted take on the character, which can get pretty depressing at times honestly. While I'm not really crazy about this whole "we're putting you with four other heroes, who are also your classmates" angle, it's sort of cool to see characters that never really were "first string" Power Man and Iron fist were maybe like B+ at best - even with Luke Cage leading the Avengers basically for the past what? 5 years or so? But White Tiger only JUST got introduced, at least this version of her. I'm disappointed that Nova isn't the Richard Rider version - but if they do plan on using the new kid more often, then I suppose this will be another instance of "media" influencing the source material. Like Chloe Sullivan on Smallville showing up in the comics only a couple years ago. Or even characters like Reptil basically showing up in cartoons before actually being a comic character. Or even going back further, Firestar showing up in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends before she was officially introduced in the comics.
As for Avengers and their upcoming reboot - I really LOVE LOVE LOVE Avengers:EMH but y'know considering they already crammed in quite a few BIG Avengers/Marvel event stories. The whole Kang arc. The Asgardian arcs. The frickin' SECRET INVASION. the Ultron Imperitive. They already tapped quite a few of the iconic storylines. They even introduced the Guardians of the Galaxy for pity's sake. I mean they ticked off so many boxes, honestly a soft reboot/retool -ala Marvel Now (lol) could be seen as being needed. I know I missed a lot of season 2 before I remembered to actually record SERIES on my DVR and I felt like I kind of missed a lot. Not unlike the comics where you can miss a year's worth of stories and feel kinda of lost.
Plus - a stylistic and story telling change up could be a good thing. It'll feel like a new cartoon, but it's still the same series. Just basically Season 3. Not too unlike what they did with Batman the Animated Series. They changed art styles, added new characters and changed the title, but it was the same show.
As for Avengers and their upcoming reboot - I really LOVE LOVE LOVE Avengers:EMH but y'know considering they already crammed in quite a few BIG Avengers/Marvel event stories. The whole Kang arc. The Asgardian arcs. The frickin' SECRET INVASION. the Ultron Imperitive. They already tapped quite a few of the iconic storylines. They even introduced the Guardians of the Galaxy for pity's sake. I mean they ticked off so many boxes, honestly a soft reboot/retool -ala Marvel Now (lol) could be seen as being needed. I know I missed a lot of season 2 before I remembered to actually record SERIES on my DVR and I felt like I kind of missed a lot. Not unlike the comics where you can miss a year's worth of stories and feel kinda of lost.
Plus - a stylistic and story telling change up could be a good thing. It'll feel like a new cartoon, but it's still the same series. Just basically Season 3. Not too unlike what they did with Batman the Animated Series. They changed art styles, added new characters and changed the title, but it was the same show.
I don't mind the amusing part, I mind the lack of more substantial content. Comedy is fine, but it's best when there's something deeper underneath that really lets you connect with and care about the characters. Even the ultra-goofy Teen Titans animated series had episodes with some real poignancy and emotion, and the characters were richly developed and had nuance beneath the broad comic shtick. The USM characters are mostly just a bunch of shallow quip factories with one-note personalities. And the one character I know best, Spider-Man, probably my favorite superhero of all, is out of character whenever the Man of Action team writes him, because they just write him as the same immature, irresponsible wise-guy antihero they always write.
This series has had a smattering of strong ones. The one where Spidey had to face his fears in the dream world and drew strength from the memory of Uncle Ben was a good one that got Spidey's character right, but those are few and far between.
I like the team idea, and the characters have potential (well, except for Nova). And White Tiger is really hot. But the writing is just too insubstantial, the characters too underdeveloped.
I thought she was actually created for the show. Or is this like Barbara Gordon, a character that was created for the comics specifically so that she could be introduced in the associated TV show?
Re: your Avengers comments:
But what worries me is that they're not just adding new characters, they're removing a lot of the current ones, particularly most of the women. I don't want to lose Jan and Carol.
Jan is so much fun. I loved her reaction to the Vision in this week's episode. "And why would you combine yellow and green with your skin tone?!"
Yeah that was a hilarious 'totally Jan' line.
Of course I don't see it so much as 'removing' as focusing on different characters. I mean look at the Avengers roster in the comics - it's shocking if they keep the same or similar line up for more than a year anyway. Remember when the Black Widow was the leader? It was just her and a bunch of third stringers as the Avengers.
Plus I'm thinking it also lets them move the show's designs closer to the movie-verse - we'll see. If the writing feels the same and it hits the same beats, then great - otherwise, we got 2 years of good stories with EMH.
And for all we know Jan and Carol will be around in some way shape or form, they just won't be the main focal characters. Like Carol changes her costume and does some solo work. Jan quit and came back a lot. Plus, think of this past season, Jan's been hurt quite a bit. I think I wouldn't blame her character for saying like 'It was fun, but I need to get back to fashion design to pay for all these medical bills. I'll see ya around... and Vision I am totally making you a new costume.'
Of course I don't see it so much as 'removing' as focusing on different characters. I mean look at the Avengers roster in the comics - it's shocking if they keep the same or similar line up for more than a year anyway. Remember when the Black Widow was the leader? It was just her and a bunch of third stringers as the Avengers.
Plus I'm thinking it also lets them move the show's designs closer to the movie-verse - we'll see. If the writing feels the same and it hits the same beats, then great - otherwise, we got 2 years of good stories with EMH.
And for all we know Jan and Carol will be around in some way shape or form, they just won't be the main focal characters. Like Carol changes her costume and does some solo work. Jan quit and came back a lot. Plus, think of this past season, Jan's been hurt quite a bit. I think I wouldn't blame her character for saying like 'It was fun, but I need to get back to fashion design to pay for all these medical bills. I'll see ya around... and Vision I am totally making you a new costume.'