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New shuttle?

Nope, it's the same type of shuttle that the Kelvin had, and that was used to transport some of the cadets to their ships docked at the space station.
 
Uh, the principal shuttle prop for the 2250s scenes (the one with nacelles up) was quite distinct - much wider, with more vertical side walls, and with bow contours that featured extra "corner" facets.

The Kelvin shuttle interior was represented by that same prop, only shot so that you couldn't see how wide it was. Apparently, the exteriors were faked, with only the sliding doors built and the rest done with pure CGI.

It's difficult to tell how complete the third prop (the 2250s shuttle with the nacelles down) was. Did they build just the doorway and the tip of the nacelle, or an entire cabin? I'd think it would have been cheaper to invest in plywood than in CGI for what that shuttle had to do in the movie...

If this new prop is supposed to reproduce the exterior of the Kelvin shuttle, it fails, as e.g. the roof has stepped structure that wasn't there in the first reboot movie. Then there's that fancy rooftop fin or aerial. And of course the window shape is different again, but that could be for the convenience of shooting, with various frames added there for proper exterior shots...

Timo Saloniemi
 
The exterior of the Kelvin shuttle was CG only with the exception of the doors. And anyway, this one while similar is also different in many ways. It's wider, more like the later ones in color, doesn't seem to have any nacelles, there's a door at the back of the cockpit instead of a plastic curtain, and it says U.S.S. Enterprise on it.
 
For the first movie, they needed the prop for a fairly large vehicle so that they could shoot the various "hauling cadets" scenes; they then probably improvised on what they had, and reused the prop for Scotty's magic transporter scene, which didn't really require a shuttle. The skydiving scene could have been done with all sorts of shuttle designs, but since they already had this one...

Yet in general, such a huge prop would not be ideal for a Star Trek shuttle, which you need to be able to haul to location shoots - and which needs to be small enough to strand and isolate our small posse of heroes when the plot so requires. This new prop seems ideal for the sorts of shuttle adventure plots we saw in TOS.

I gather nacelles will be added to it, though. Either physically, or then in CGI.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It certainly looks like it's been through quite a bit. Not exactly a showroom finish on it.
 
The details are all wrong, though. If this is a prop built for the first movie, it has been modified quite a bit for its newer appearance - a gullwing rather than sliding door, a step in the roofline, a new, more acutely tapering trapezoid front window shape, etc.

Also, if a prop was built for the Kelvin shuttle in the first movie, why wasn't it used for the interior scenes? Why did they shoot Robau's trip using the big 2250s shuttle set?

Or did they build two similar but differently sized props for Robau and Pike, only reusing the control consoles and sidewall displays? Sounds a bit unlikely.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It looks to me to generally match the shuttle Robau used to travel to Narada (see attachment) but I'll leave the detailed comparison to others more adept at/more inclined to doing that sort of thing than I.

This bit caught my eye, though:
Egotastic article said:
And while our Egotastic! Sensory Perception tells us that most of you are waiting to see photos of Zoe Saldana in her Starfleet garb, there are a few of you out there who will work the palms bare to the sight of space crafts. So, well, shuttle away!
 

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  • Kelvin_shuttle.jpg
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It is quite similar to the Kelvin shuttle but to me it appears larger. I modeled my own CG version of the Kelvin shuttle and so I looked at lots of screencaps as well as concept art posted by John eaves on his blog. And compared to all that I'd say that this is some sort of upgraded version.
 
Which would be splendid for the second movie in the series. It's not as if we have to believe that Starfleet completely discontinued the 2230s line of shuttles and adopted the big angular transports in their stead. The exclusive use of those big barges in the 2250s scenes could be chalked up as an artifact of the crisis, which forced starships to embark auxiliaries that were actually intended for Starfleet Academy use.

I'm sure the old big barge prop will still see use in the second movie. But a smaller craft is better, dramatically speaking. And if it's a minor "upgrade" of the 2230s design, all the better.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The details are all wrong, though. If this is a prop built for the first movie, it has been modified quite a bit for its newer appearance
That or the prop department constructed a physical model that "more or less" matched the diagrams of the CG model, in which case the difference in details is entirely an artifact of structural/physical requirements.

Kind of like, you know, every full-sized shuttle mockup in the history of Star Trek. Ironically, the original TOS shuttle is famous for having a similar discrepancy: the exterior prop was considerably smaller than the interior set and also didn't precisely match the filming miniature.

Hell, maybe JJ did it on purpose just to please the fanboys? Probably built a 24 foot exterior just so he could slip a line into dialog about the shuttle being 30 feet long.:cool:

Also, if a prop was built for the Kelvin shuttle in the first movie, why wasn't it used for the interior scenes?
Because it wasn't built for the Kelvin shuttle in the first movie?
 
That or the prop department constructed a physical model that "more or less" matched the diagrams of the CG model

The differences evident in the pic of the prop don't seem anything of the sort, though. There's a kink on the roof - difficult to see why one would be added for "structural reasons", even if it's easy to see why one would want to remove such a thing... And apparently the door opens differently, even though hinged and sliding doors should be equally easy to build and provide similar camera angles and whatnot.

It might well be that the prop we see is a (radical) expansion of the partial prop (or set fragment) used in the first movie, but much more difficult to believe that it would actually strive to portray the shuttle from the earlier movie and then fail in the task.

Timo Saloniemi
 
That or the prop department constructed a physical model that "more or less" matched the diagrams of the CG model
The differences evident in the pic of the prop don't seem anything of the sort, though. There's a kink on the roof - difficult to see why one would be added for "structural reasons"
Light fixtures on the ceiling, hiding a mounting bracket for a crane, hiding a location for a microphone when filming through the front window, etc etc.

Those structural differences aren't so huge that they can't be retconned into the original. More to the point, they aren't nearly as huge as the difference between the filming model of the Type-7 shuttle and the stage prop to represent the same (or for that matter, the Type-6).

It might well be that the prop we see is a (radical) expansion of the partial prop (or set fragment) used in the first movie, but much more difficult to believe that it would actually strive to portray the shuttle from the earlier movie and then fail in the task.
It's VASTLY more likely it's just an external prop for the Kelvin-style shuttle that they never had the money to build before, that the apparent differences (which are NOT all that radical) are due to the build team not meticulously imitating every microscopic detail of the CG model. They probably had more important production-related considerations in mind when they built the thing, which entirely explains the discrepancies.

In-universe, of course, the difference can only be explained by fanon.
 
Given how great the investment and attention to detail is for the prop used in the first movie, it seems completely implausible that something this big (the kink) or this nonsensical (the change of door type) would "have" to be done in the second movie. It's a choice made out of free will, in a movie where one can afford to burn things the old TV shows only dreamed of building.

If the second movie for some reason wanted to reproduce the smallest shuttles of the first one exactly, it would. But obviously that's not the motivation behind this prop, which is labeled as being from the 2250s or 2260s. Similarities with the 2230s design are probably there for the same reason both these designs resemble the old TOS design (and to the same degree): the movie needs the classic and iconic Star Trek shuttle, which can only be varied so much.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Given how great the investment and attention to detail is for the prop used in the first movie, it seems completely implausible that something this big (the kink) or this nonsensical (the change of door type) would "have" to be done in the second movie. It's a choice made out of free will, in a movie where one can afford to burn things the old TV shows only dreamed of building.
You're again assuming that "attention to detail" and "attention to canon" are the same thing. It looks like a very detailed prop to me, based on what we can see, extremely well built.

But as I have been saying for years, JJ Abrams' production crew seem to be under the impression that they are trying to make a successful motion picture, as opposed to an internally consistent addition to Star Trek canon. If you asked the set designer about the differences between the two shuttles he would probably shrug and say "Yeah, I suppose so... why do you ask?"

If the second movie for some reason wanted to reproduce the smallest shuttles of the first one exactly, it would.
Right. I doubt they wanted to reproduce it "exactly," more likely "close enough" while still being functional for filming purposes. You know better than anyone that between films the sets and props can get completely re-detailed with no explanation whatsoever, nor even an attempt at in-universe rationalization (take, for example, the changes between TMP and TWOK). Most of the time these changes have to do with the set designer's thinking or the production crew needing to do something with the props or the set and adding things here or there to make it look right.

But obviously that's not the motivation behind this prop, which is labeled as being from the 2250s or 2260s. Similarities with the 2230s design are probably there for the same reason both these designs resemble the old TOS design (and to the same degree): the movie needs the classic and iconic Star Trek shuttle, which can only be varied so much.
The variation isn't large enough that your general audience won't notice it's the same kind of shuttle that was used on the Kelvin in the previous film... assuming they're paying THAT much attention, and they probably won't.

Try to think of this from a filmmaker's point of view. The shuttlecraft is a piece of fictional technology: an aircraft, in other words. It has to look cool and it has to visually resemble a specific type of aircraft so that the viewers can tell any two of them apart when they're in the same scene, if not in the same frame. If this was something other than a Star Trek movie -- say, if this was a movie about an aircraft carrier during the Gulf War -- they would probably commission a few UH-60 blackhawks as the main helicopter for the big "assault landing scene." Now you and me, sitting here watching the movie with an eye for detail, notice that the UH-60 in the film appears to be a model that wasn't in service yet during the Gulf War. There are a lot of reasons we might speculate as to why this happened -- maybe they couldn't get a "classic" model for the film, or the one they wanted to use had a mechanical problem, or maybe they just didn't care.

The least likely reason is that they are INTENTIONALLY showing an advanced helicopter that wasn't in service during the Gulf War, to imply it's a different model or some sort of advanced prototype. From a production standpoint it doesn't really matter, as long as it looks good on camera.

So the notch, the gulwing door, slight change in the angles; doubtful these reflect any conscious deviation for in-universe technology changes. It's a lot more likely the changes were made when they finally got around to build the set, found out that a few things weren't working well from a production standpoint, and made changes accordingly. If anyone even noticed the differences between the set and the last movie's prop, I doubt it would have mattered.
 
It looks like a very detailed prop to me, based on what we can see, extremely well built.

Exactly. Which means that the "mistakes" there are completely out of character. A TV budget and schedule might "explain" them - but there's no way in hell people specifically tasked with reproducing the looks of the first-movie small craft would build this contraption and still retain their jobs.

Try to think of this from a filmmaker's point of view.

I am. And I cannot see any reason for them to try and replicate the first-movie shuttle - least of all by building a prop that doesn't resemble the first-movie shuttle.

If they needed the first-movie shuttle, they'd have one, simply by reusing the CGI model from the first movie, and by faking the rest. They showed in the first movie that they can do convincing fakes. If they now have dropped their standards this much, it follows that the Enterprise will be switched for the Klingon battle cruiser model and they'll just hope nobody will notice.

But that's only if they want to reproduce the older shuttle. And there's no reason to think they would want to do that. There's no known reason they would wish to point back to the 2230s with a shuttle that we can already see is not going to be from the 2230s. There's no known reason they would want "equipment continuity" across the fictional decades, any more than somebody making JAG would want to insist that Harmon Rabb fly a UH-1 as opposed to UH-60 in 1999 because one was seen in a flashback to 1969.

And, ultimately, there's no commonality between the shuttle we see now and the shuttle we saw in the previous movie, beyond the extremely superficial one of "they're both flying bricks with a window in front".

Timo Saloniemi
 
*shrugs* It looks like the Kelvin shuttle to me. This sounds like a case of much ado about nothing.
 
It looks like a very detailed prop to me, based on what we can see, extremely well built.
Exactly. Which means that the "mistakes" there are completely out of character. A TV budget and schedule might "explain" them - but there's no way in hell people specifically tasked with reproducing the looks of the first-movie small craft would build this contraption and still retain their jobs.
They DID reproduce the looks of the first shuttle. It looks enough like the Kelvin shuttle that nobody but US notice any differences (and I'm not even sure those differences are that significant).

Try to think of this from a filmmaker's point of view.
I am. And I cannot see any reason for them to try and replicate the first-movie shuttle - least of all by building a prop that doesn't resemble the first-movie shuttle.
That's just it, it DOES resemble the first movie's shuttle. You could probably make the case that because of a few minor details it isn't an exact replica, but from a production standpoint the differences are small enough not to matter.

The only people to whom those differences WILL matter are smart enough to rationalize them away. So why spend an extra $10,000 fine tuning superficial surface details that only a handful of viewers will even notice?

But that's only if they want to reproduce the older shuttle.
Clearly they do, or else they would have gone with a different model as they did in the first film. This is what you're not getting about this process: audiences notice the big obvious differences in style and structure that will tell you "two different shuttles." If you want to represent a completely different model, you put something in there that looks COMPLETELY different, not "very similar with subtle differences." And in case you hadn't noticed, Bad Robot isn't the type of company that deals in subtlety.

Nobody noticed the FX error in the first movie when Kirk's window was placed in the wrong shuttle exterior. We're probably not meant to notice these "errors" either. Suffice to say, by the normal standards of set design and FX consistency (which are far FAR lower than Trek Fan standards), this is close enough to the Kelvin's shuttle to be considered the same design.
 
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