New sets onboard ship. Scrap the brewery!

[I-Am-Zim]

Maybe we'll get lucky and the brewery they filmed at will be either condemned or demolished before the next movie starts shooting. That way, JJA will have to build a real set that actually looks like something from Star Trek and not something out of a WWII submarine flick.

Funny, considering how big cars were when Star Trek debuted, versus how small they've become 40+ years later

Yeah. And I actually love those big ol' cars from the 60's. And I can't stand these tiny little sardine cans people drive around in today. That's why I drive Lincolns (real Lincolns with RWD and V-8 engines, not these silly little FWD jokes on wheels Lincoln makes now). But that's too far off topic.

I simply think they could have done much better. The budgineering set was a joke as far as I'm concerned. It didn't feel to me like a 23rd century vessel capable of warping the spacetimie continuum. It just looked like a brewery. And it was horrible.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

I think the inferrence is that if the Titanic's bowels were more compartmentalized, then the flooding could have been more easily contained rather than simply filling the entire lower section of the ship. The fewer wide open spaces a seafaring vessel has, the less likely it will completely fill with water in the event of a hull breach.

You may want to read up on the Titanic, its construction and the nature and extent of the damage it sustained. I still think it's an odd example to be raising on the subject of starship engine-room compartmentalization.

True. I'm not well versed on the intricacies of the Titanic. I was attempting to give my interpretation of what I thought that post meant. At any rate, I think compartmentalization would work better in a starship design. If the budgineering deck is actually pretty much the whole secondary hull, then a hull breach in that section, anywhere, would be completely catastrophic. The entire secondary hull would decompress, everyone down there would be sucked out into space, and those gigantic tanks of beer would probably explode and vent into space. That would be terrible. No happy hour for the Abramsprise tonight!!

 

[startrekrcks]

now the crew can get drunk lol it's fun to make fun of the brewery.

 

[M'Sharak]

I think the inferrence is that if the Titanic's bowels were more compartmentalized, then the flooding could have been more easily contained rather than simply filling the entire lower section of the ship. The fewer wide open spaces a seafaring vessel has, the less likely it will completely fill with water in the event of a hull breach.

You may want to read up on the Titanic, its construction and the nature and extent of the damage it sustained. I still think it's an odd example to be raising on the subject of starship engine-room compartmentalization.

True. I'm not well versed on the intricacies of the Titanic. I was attempting to give my interpretation of what I thought that post meant.

Fair enough.

At any rate, I think compartmentalization would work better in a starship design. If the budgineering deck is actually pretty much the whole secondary hull, then a hull breach in that section, anywhere, would be completely catastrophic. The entire secondary hull would decompress, everyone down there would be sucked out into space, and those gigantic tanks of beer would probably explode and vent into space. That would be terrible. No happy hour for the Abramsprise tonight!!

Valid points all, and I agree completely.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Enterprise had to have some pretty good atmospheric forcefields to stop the entire engineering hull decompressing when the giant hangar's open, and when the warp cores sprang up out though though the ceiling at the end. I'm sure they'd hold everything together if need be, after some Nemesis-style decompression dramatics.

 

[John Picard]

I think the inferrence is that if the Titanic's bowels were more compartmentalized, then the flooding could have been more easily contained rather than simply filling the entire lower section of the ship. The fewer wide open spaces a seafaring vessel has, the less likely it will completely fill with water in the event of a hull breach.

You may want to read up on the Titanic, its construction and the nature and extent of the damage it sustained. I still think it's an odd example to be raising on the subject of starship engine-room compartmentalization.

True. I'm not well versed on the intricacies of the Titanic. I was attempting to give my interpretation of what I thought that post meant. At any rate, I think compartmentalization would work better in a starship design. If the budgineering deck is actually pretty much the whole secondary hull, then a hull breach in that section, anywhere, would be completely catastrophic. The entire secondary hull would decompress, everyone down there would be sucked out into space, and those gigantic tanks of beer would probably explode and vent into space. That would be terrible. No happy hour for the Abramsprise tonight!!

Well, further off topic, but what the hell. The problem with the Titanic is that she had watertight doors in engineering; however, the bulkheads did not go all the way up to "E" Deck(?), thus even though the doors did their job to contain the water, the compromised hull allowed each compartment to flood. The resulting list of the ship allowed the water to spill over from one compartment to the other. Had the bulkheads been built all the way up and sealed off each compartment, she definitely would have remained afloat and had to have been towed to the nearest port.

That's the advantage of ships built for the US Navy. Compartmentalization allows for flooded compartments to be isolated and flooding contained. The ship can remain afloat although Dead in the Water.

 

[Captain Rob]

My point of comparing Titanic to the Battleship Texas was that they were contemporaries to each other and that they had the same propulsion system. Titanic's engine compartment was wide open while USS Texas' was not. I've been a student of the Titanic disaster as long as I've been a Star Trek fan. The only watertight feature that Titanic had was those much talked-about transverse bulkheads with the remote automatic doors. Titanic's sister, the Britanic, went down in less than 30 minutes because those doors weren't closed after it was torpedoed during WW I. Titanic sank because none of it's decks could be closed off watertight. As each compartment filled up, the water spilled over the top of the transverse bulkheads into the next compartment. All modern warships have transverse bulkheads, longitudinal bulkheads, and each deck can be sealed off below the weather deck. Atmospheric force fields are great; but only if they work. On a starship I would expect large components to have their own comprtments. Even though we've seen on TNG that the warp core can be surrounded by a forcefield. The core can be sealed in it's own compartment by lowering that big door.
As for the NuEnterprise looking clean and antiseptic. If there's such a thing as a showroom floor for starships, then Enterprise was fresh off of it. The ship had just been completed and had 0 hours on it. Where's the odometer? Or engine hour meter?

 

[Captain Rob]

John Picard beat me to it.

As for using force fields when the shuttlebay doors are open. In TOS didn't they always say that the shuttlebay had to be decompressed first prior to opening the doors? We didn't see the widespread use of forcefield technology until TNG. Even more reason to have airtight compartments. I don't remember seeing forcefields in use in the shuttlebay scenes on the Kelvin or nuEnterprise.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

John Picard beat me to it.

As for using force fields when the shuttlebay doors are open. In TOS didn't they always say that the shuttlebay had to be decompressed first prior to opening the doors? We didn't see the widespread use of forcefield technology until TNG. Even more reason to have airtight compartments. I don't remember seeing forcefields in use in the shuttlebay scenes on the Kelvin or nuEnterprise.

Ever so true. Neither did we see anybody walking around in the shuttlebay during the infamous ginormous shuttlebay scene. The shuttlebay itself was probably sealed off from engineering with an airlock or several. That way it could decompress while shuttles were landing or taking off and re-pressurize once all the shuttles had landed and the doors were closed. Then the passengers could go through the doors to the staging area or whatever that big room full of pipes and tubular beams was supposed to be. God, I hate that stupid looking ship. The more I try to make sense of the crappyprise the more I loathe that disgusting POS of a starship.

 

[Captain Rob]

Another design flaw. It's not a very good idea to have everyone tromping through the engine room, probably the most sensitive area of the ship, while going to and from the shuttlebay. Imagine a load of prisoners being brought onboard by shuttle. They would all be marched through the engine room. Rngine rooms are supposed to be secure areas.
I've still gotta go with my original premise. That the Enterprise wasn't completed in Star Trek XI.

 

[John Picard]

Another design flaw. It's not a very good idea to have everyone tromping through the engine room, probably the most sensitive area of the ship, while going to and from the shuttlebay. Imagine a load of prisoners being brought onboard by shuttle. They would all be marched through the engine room. Engine rooms are supposed to be secure areas.
I've still gotta go with my original premise. That the Enterprise wasn't completed in Star Trek XI.

Well, the engine room is a dangerous area that requires specific attention, so it doesn't make sense to have it as a common traffic area.

 

[T'Girl]

Many sources have said that the difference between the TOS Enterprise and this new Enterprise is due to starship design acceleration mandated by the Narada-Kelvin incident at the beginning of the movie. For a ship to be designed for combat with a huge unknown threat such as the Narada

I know it's not canon, but this fan explanation make no sense to me. ONE starfleet starship is destroyed by a giant enemy ship that then completely disappears and is not seen for a quarter century. Because of this single incident Earth and Starfleet was utterly transformed from what they were in TOS, the Enterprise (again after no contact for 25 years) is huge and Earth is change to the point that Chekov's birth year is different. I mean Starfleet just plain loses ships, it is fairly common.

 

[F. King Daniel]

For all we know it's events like "The Doomsday Machine" in TOS that led to the fleetwide upgrades in TMP and the much larger USS Excelsior. We don't know why the Federation totally redesigned everything in 2270 (other than an increased budget )

 

[Brandonv]

Many sources have said that the difference between the TOS Enterprise and this new Enterprise is due to starship design acceleration mandated by the Narada-Kelvin incident at the beginning of the movie. For a ship to be designed for combat with a huge unknown threat such as the Narada

I know it's not canon, but this fan explanation make no sense to me. ONE starfleet starship is destroyed by a giant enemy ship that then completely disappears and is not seen for a quarter century. Because of this single incident Earth and Starfleet was utterly transformed from what they were in TOS, the Enterprise (again after no contact for 25 years) is huge and Earth is change to the point that Chekov's birth year is different. I mean Starfleet just plain loses ships, it is fairly common.

I think the reason this incident had such a large influence is because the crew of the Narada is Romulan. After the Narada attack, Starfleet Command would have reviewed the Kelvin's logs (including the viewscreen recordings) and the Vulcans probably would have been forced to reveal their relationship with the Romulans. Starfleet, not knowing that the Narada is from the future, would have been extremely frightened thinking that the Romulans - an enemy of the Federation - are now so powerful.

 

[Immolatus]

the brewery set was different, which is what I wanted. but it didn't feel like sci-fi to me

 

[Captain Rob]

Many sources have said that the difference between the TOS Enterprise and this new Enterprise is due to starship design acceleration mandated by the Narada-Kelvin incident at the beginning of the movie. For a ship to be designed for combat with a huge unknown threat such as the Narada

I know it's not canon, but this fan explanation make no sense to me. ONE starfleet starship is destroyed by a giant enemy ship that then completely disappears and is not seen for a quarter century. Because of this single incident Earth and Starfleet was utterly transformed from what they were in TOS, the Enterprise (again after no contact for 25 years) is huge and Earth is change to the point that Chekov's birth year is different. I mean Starfleet just plain loses ships, it is fairly common.

I think the reason this incident had such a large influence is because the crew of the Narada is Romulan. After the Narada attack, Starfleet Command would have reviewed the Kelvin's logs (including the viewscreen recordings) and the Vulcans probably would have been forced to reveal their relationship with the Romulans. Starfleet, not knowing that the Narada is from the future, would have been extremely frightened thinking that the Romulans - an enemy of the Federation - are now so powerful.

I could have sworn that this explanation came from Orci and Kurtzman. I too believe that it's BS to think that the loss of one ship would have such a huge effect on starship design. Sorry to bring up Titanic again; but it's loss and the loss of so many passengers did lead to huge changes in commercial ship construction. Such as double hulls and increased number of lifeboats. And it lead to the creation of the modern Coast Guard. But commercial ships didn't suddenly double in size.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Sorry to bring up Titanic again; but it's loss and the loss of so many passengers did lead to huge changes in commercial ship construction. Such as double hulls and increased number of lifeboats. And it lead to the creation of the modern Coast Guard. But commercial ships didn't suddenly double in size.

They might have if instead of an iceberg the Titanic had been destroyed by an unknown advanced enemy, iceberg looking, ship.
Maybe they would even arm commercial ships after that.

I'm sure the changes wouldn't have been the same or as drastic if the Kelvin had just being destroyed by the crew making mistakes and crashing it into a big asteroid.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Not to stir the pot, but the USS Kelvin, in 2233, was huge too. Either 457m or 665m long (accoding to the Bluray and 'Art of' book), a crew of at least 800 and a power station engine room...

And since the Kelvin is prime-universe (ignoring "fanon" theories that say otherwise) what you should all be asking is: What happened in Prime Trek to get Starfleet to shrink their ships and minimalize their engine rooms between 2233 and 2245?

 

[Pauln6]

Presumably they could identify Nero as a Romulan because that's what the Universal Translator told them he was speaking. The British made huge scientific advances when tryig to fight the Nazis in WWII but that was a sustained ongoing conflict. I'm in no way convinced that the Kelvin's destruction would lead to technological advances but scans of the Narada from its 'black box' might.

Of course that still doesn't explain why NuEnterprise is as large and faster than the largest and fastest ships of the 24th century. It's not as if she has families on board.

 

[Captain Rob]

Not to stir the pot, but the USS Kelvin, in 2233, was huge too. Either 457m or 665m long (accoding to the Bluray and 'Art of' book), a crew of at least 800 and a power station engine room...

And since the Kelvin is prime-universe (ignoring "fanon" theories that say otherwise) what you should all be asking is: What happened in Prime Trek to get Starfleet to shrink their ships and minimalize their engine rooms between 2233 and 2245?

(Slowly opening can of worms, again)
Just saw the movie again. Kelvin looks about the same size as the TOS E; with the saucer looking a little bigger. The biggest indicator of size is the bridge windows and the shuttle zipping out of the shuttlebay just clearing the doors. Now unless that shuttle's the size of the Space Shuttle, I don't think that the Kelvin's really very big.