Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[Damian]

Kevin Ryan's "Errand of...." novels discussed the Battle of Donatu V involving the USS Constitution (I forget the exact novel). However I also remembered a lot of that was contradicted by Michael Jan Friendman's "My Brother's Keeper: Republic" novel. It seemed to me at least the differences between the two were pretty irreconcilable as far as the battle was concerned (if I remember correctly both had a completely different description of the battle)

 

[Christopher]

Oh, I thought they said 100 years specifically. I checked the Memory Alpha info and they noted a century as well.

Even if they had said "a hundred years," it could still be a rounded-up estimate, because people aren't calculators.

It is a bit inconsistent with TUC where they state in that movie there have been 70 years of hostility which would go back to 2223. I guess they can wiggle out of that too.

Many people took that to mean that the Klingons had first been contacted in the 2220s, and screamed "canon violation!" when ENT established first contact in 2151. There's always wiggle room.

In this case, perhaps we can assume that those "fleeting run-ins" -- the kind of piracy and raids established in DSC, as well as skirmishes like Donatu V -- began in the early 2220s.

I guess in Live By The Code it was just a happy coincidence that you had them begin a period of seclusion as well. I assume you didn't have any foreknowledge of Discovery at that time (I don't believe the show was even announced at that point). Sometimes things do work out....well unless the writers read your book before writing the show and decided to run with the idea

That's right. It was actually The Romulan War: To Brave the Storm that set up the idea of the Klingons going into seclusion for a while, which I'd guess was an attempt to reconcile ENT with that TUC line by having the Klingons stay dormant until the 2220s. I wanted to do one big Klingon story of my own before letting them get on with that, but my ultimate goal was the same. It's fortuitous that it meshed so well with DSC, give or take a decade.

 

[Damian]

Many people took that to mean that the Klingons had first been contacted in the 2220s, and screamed "canon violation!" when ENT established first contact in 2151. There's always wiggle room.

I never gave that a lot of thought. I figured first contact probably occurred sometime before hostilities broke out.

That's right. It was actually The Romulan War: To Brave the Storm that set up the idea of the Klingons going into seclusion for a while, which I'd guess was an attempt to reconcile ENT with that TUC line by having the Klingons stay dormant until the 2220s. I wanted to do one big Klingon story of my own before letting them get on with that, but my ultimate goal was the same. It's fortuitous that it meshed so well with DSC, give or take a decade.

Just one of many things I like about novels. I've admitted before I like a certain consistency in continuity. I've seen a lot of times in various novels where they try to explain inconsistencies in canon, and usually it's pretty effective. I know some people poo-poo inconsistencies and say who cares. And yeah, it's just entertainment and all, but I like that novels try to fix some of that. Literature is a good place to do it since your novel readers are usually the more hard core fans that tend to care a bit more about all the little details. Greg Cox's Khan books and you're DTI stories are great examples of some of that (though there are countless examples of books 'fixing' canon inconsistencies).

And in you and Michael Martin's case, you actually fixed a problem that wasn't even a problem yet

 

[Christopher]

I never gave that a lot of thought. I figured first contact probably occurred sometime before hostilities broke out.

Well, since we're talking about the Klingons, it would be plausible for first contact to be the start of hostilities. Indeed, that almost happened in "Broken Bow" until Archer papered things over. And TNG: "First Contact" said that a botched first contact with the Klingons led to generations of hostility; it was assumed at the time that he was talking about humanity's first contact, but fortunately he never specified that, so it can be reconciled with "Broken Bow" by assuming he was talking about somebody else's first contact with the Klingons. In one of my Rise of the Federation novels, I clarify that it was the Vulcans' first contact. Which is another thing where my version is basically reconcilable with Discovery's version, although I think they disagree on the date by a century.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Was that thing about the Andorians in Titan books ever straightened out? I haven't read the book, but I remember a couple of people saying there was a point about Andorians and a transporter or something.

The fertility crisis is over, but I fear we will never know the fates of our random Andorian transporter clones!

 

[flandry84]

I agree with those who will not miss the Picard-family developments.It always seemed like an exercise in making Picard fit into a box that the early seasons Picard was determined not to fit into.
The idea of making the captain a family man always puzzled me and I wonder where that imprimatur came from.
I will miss the new DS9 (if it comes to that.).The new characters never got a chance to exceed impulse power.
I will mention the baffling decision to write off Vaughan,IMO the most interesting of the reboot characters.

 

[Christopher]

I agree with those who will not miss the Picard-family developments.It always seemed like an exercise in making Picard fit into a box that the early seasons Picard was determined not to fit into.

What's wrong with that? Characters who never change aren't very interesting.

The idea of making the captain a family man always puzzled me and I wonder where that imprimatur came from.

It grew out of Picard's whole journey over the series. He gradually overcame his discomfort with children, he lived a subjective half-century as a father and grandfather in "The Inner Light," and in Generations he lost his brother and nephew and realized that the burden of continuing the Picard line now fell to him or nobody, and we saw that his Nexus fantasy of an ideal life involved being a husband and father.

 

[flandry84]

Nah.Still not seeing it.
Fine for Riker to eventually achieve the captaincy he always wanted whilst also realizing that he could do that and have a marriage and children.But for Picard,the aesthetete,the reserved warrior/ scholar,I personally thought that his transformation into Mr.Dad was not in character.
True people change and develop,but sometimes they don’t.
Which or whether we’ll see what the new series holds in store.

 

[Christopher]

But for Picard,the aesthetete,the reserved warrior/ scholar,I personally thought that his transformation into Mr.Dad was not in character.

I see it more as being out of his comfort zone. Which is the most interesting place to put a character.

 

[David cgc]

But for Picard,the aesthetete,the reserved warrior/ scholar,I personally thought that his transformation into Mr.Dad was not in character.

On the other hand, while reading the interstitial segments of "The Missing," my mental image of Picard dictating his thoughts on leadership and the big questions of the universe to a four-year-old, writing a book and simultaniously single-dadding it while Beverly was subbing for Bashir on DS9 was the apotheosis of the character, the man who finally had it all, albeit in his own specific idiom.

Honestly, Patrick Stewart, in full Shakespearian flower, hosting Reading Rainbow is always where TNG was heading.

 

[Christopher]

Also, how is Picard a warrior? That's anathema to who he is. He's a scholar and a diplomat, and only practices violence with great reluctance as a last resort.

 

[JD]

Picard and Riker married and have a kid

I have to confess, I did a bit of double take here. It took me a minute to realize what you actually meant here.

Nah.Still not seeing it.
Fine for Riker to eventually achieve the captaincy he always wanted whilst also realizing that he could do that and have a marriage and children.But for Picard,the aesthetete,the reserved warrior/ scholar,I personally thought that his transformation into Mr.Dad was not in character.
True people change and develop,but sometimes they don’t.
Which or whether we’ll see what the new series holds in store.

Picard the family man has been one of my favorite parts of the recent TNG novels. I think after everything he went through up to that point, it made perfect sense that he'd end up married with a kid.

 

[Damian]

What's wrong with that? Characters who never change aren't very interesting.

It grew out of Picard's whole journey over the series.

Picard the family man has been one of my favorite parts of the recent TNG novels. I think after everything he went through up to that point, it made perfect sense that he'd end up married with a kid

I 100% agree. It seemed perfectly natural to me. Sure in the first 3 or 4 seasons it would have been significantly out of character. But I agree with Christopher, "Inner Light" was significant in his evolution as a character. Even before that he wasn't quite so uncomfortable around children. He gradually got more used to the idea of children on the ship and I think even in the episode "Disaster" he started to evolve. While he was challenged dealing with the 3 children trapped with him, he eventually found a way to relate to them and even allowed them on the bridge, gasp.

Generations I think brought it all home for him. Having a family became important to him. His 'version' of heaven in the Nexus was having a family (though I thought it significant in his personal heaven he was still wearing a Starfleet uniform, indicating that despite finding a desire to have a family he still wanted to be in Starfleet-which he did in the novelverse).

Now perhaps it's a bit like Ross and Rachel in Friends that he ended up married to Crusher. But the that's not so far fetched. Picard always had feelings for her and it always seemed they were developing something more than a friendship in the later seasons of TNG (though the films inexplicably dropped it and didn't further develop it).

 

[RonG]

Agree wholeheartedly about Picard's evolution as a character into a family man. In addition, it made the stakes higher for him (especially in Destiny), when not only "the fate of the Federation" (or galaxy/universe, etc) was on the line, but something much more tangible and personal - the family he built and now has to protect.

But whatever happens with the new series, the novels aren't going anywhere.. making it "non-canon" only amounts to some form of an argument I find.. peculiar: "this set of fictional stories is more 'official' than the previous set of fictional stories"... in the words of Alan Moore: "This is an imaginary story.. aren't they all?"

 

[Relayer1]

I do believe if that were to happen they'd still let the novelverse take us to the destruction of Romulus. I think they know it's a key moment that readers have been waiting for and I don't think they'll disappoint us. I believe they'd at least take us that far, and probably a little beyond to address the immediate aftermath.

I would think that the events at the start of Trek '09 were the ideal place to finish the current novelverse continuity.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I would think that the events at the start of Trek '09 were the ideal place to finish the current novelverse continuity.

Use the single universe theory.

And then Nero and Spock fell into the black hole, resetting the timeline.


END OF NOVELVERSE.

 

[Relayer1]

Well, we really need to be careful not to post anything resembling a story idea, but it's a given event in canon with 'unpredictable' effects.

 

[Damian]

But whatever happens with the new series, the novels aren't going anywhere.. making it "non-canon" only amounts to some form of an argument I find.. peculiar: "this set of fictional stories is more 'official' than the previous set of fictional stories"... in the words of Alan Moore: "This is an imaginary story.. aren't they all?"

I think the angst you see here about relaunch fans isn't about past books. Obviously CBS isn't coming to your door demanding your books or anything.

It has to do more with if the nu-TNG show is not reconcilable with the novelverse, new novels in the relaunches will cease. Many have noted they are not going to release future books that conflict with on screen canon. Now my feeling is they'll exercise a little flexibility to depict the destruction of Romulus (it would be almost cruel to take us to the brink and then say, nope, never mind). But I think the relaunches of the 24th century books will stop soon after, unless by some miracle the new show does not conflict with the existing novelverse...but that would be highly unusual for Star Trek.

But that won't stop me from keeping my fingers crossed that somehow the two can co-exist and future novels can be written that bridge any differences and not jettison the past novel continuity.

 

[flandry84]

Also, how is Picard a warrior? That's anathema to who he is. He's a scholar and a diplomat, and only practices violence with great reluctance as a last resort.

d
Seriously??
You did see Picard offing ex-subordinates of his with a tommy gun,no?
We have witnessed him killing people *and destroying spaceships no?
Anathema to who he is?Maybe.Never stopped him doing it.
*(And yes,Borg drones have I think over the course of the years been proven to be people.
Don’t try to ameliorate the fact that almost every one of our heroes have killed or given the order that killed many times over.Reluctantly,sure.And for good reasons,maybe but nonetheless those are the facts.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, he has used violence when he has had no other choice. But that is not what the word "warrior" means. A warrior is someone whose primary function is to wage war and combat. A warrior is someone defined by fighting. That is not who Picard is. He is an explorer and diplomat first, and only a fighter when he has to be.