M
marlboro
Guest
If the current continuity is profitable, why not have your cake and eat it too? Publish both. Just slap a "Myriad Universes" label on the current continuity and let the new books be the ostensible "real" continuity.
Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)
- Thread starter chrinFinity
- Start date
Most readers probably don't care what continuity a book is in as long as it's about the characters they know and like. And as flattering as it is to us novelists when Trek Lit fans express their loyalty to book-original characters, the majority of readers are in it for the TV characters.
It's just the nature of tie-in literature that it's subordinate to the thing it ties into and exists to support it, not to conflict with it. If you want fiction that's independent and free to go its own way, then there's a wealth of original science fiction out there that isn't beholden to anything but itself. At the very least, there's fan fiction that isn't under any contractual obligation to stay consistent with the source. But official tie-ins have to tie in. That's their job.
Probably for a similar reason why we don't get new Star Wars novels set in the Legends continuity.
With David Mack's next Trek book going back and revisiting the events and repercussions of A Time To Kill/Heal...and given its release date somewhere before the new Picard show...I would not at all be surprised if the current Treklit continuity gets wrapped up in that novel...it would be an excellent place to do it.
Hell, it might even be a set up for the Picard we see on the screen years later in the show. (ok, that's probably a stretch)
Hell, it might even be a set up for the Picard we see on the screen years later in the show. (ok, that's probably a stretch)
Are we sure it is? Pocket very nearly didn't renew their Trek licence the last two renewals. Cold Equations was almost the finale to the novelverse way back in 2012. We went a year without novels and it doesn't look like we're getting back to one per month any time soon. The dead-tree MMPB format has changed to TPB to cost us, and make them, more money. While I have zero proof to back up this thoery, I wouldn't be surprised if the last renewal was more of a hopeful thing that more CBS-AA/Netflix Trek down the line will reinvigorate sales.
I gathered at the time that that was more a precaution/contingency plan than anything else.
I don't think the delay in renewal was about profitability -- more some higher-level business stuff between the companies. Part of it, I think, is that there are more production and distribution companies involved in making Trek now so getting everyone's approval and agreement is more complicated. I gather that a change in the administration at Gallery Books was another delaying factor, because the new person in charge wanted to review the deal before approving it. If it had been about anything as straightforward as looking at sales figures, the process would probably have been a lot less drawn out.
That's not about Star Trek, it's about trends in the publishing industry as a whole. MMPBs have been declining in popularity for a long time. Trades and e-books dominate the industry now. I currently have three original, non-Trek books to my name (Only Superhuman, Hub Space, Among the Wild Cybers), and they're all available only in e-book or trade format; OS was briefly released in MMPB but it's been out of print in that format for years.
Besides, keep in mind that the shift to trades makes us authors more money as well, since we're getting the same royalty percentage on a higher cover price. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't make that sound like a bad thing.
As a rule, it's a given that a tie-in line will be more profitable when there's actually an active franchise to tie into. It's extremely rare for any tie-in series to remain popular for long after its parent series ends; things like Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate, and (for a time) Buffy have been the exceptions to the rule. Look at all the really brief tie-in runs there were for shows like Andromeda, The 4400, Leverage, and Warehouse 13 -- this tends to happen because publishers tend to wait to see if a show is successful before approving tie-ins, and then it takes a while to produce the books, so that often the show is over by the time they come out and there's just little market for the books after that.
So continuing the tie-in line now that there's new onscreen Trek isn't some kind of a long-shot, Hail Mary pass sort of thing -- it's pretty much just common sense that there will be more of an audience for Trek books now.
I have to admit, I've become quite fond of the relaunch novels of all the series. I'd personally hate to see anything cancelled out in a nu-TNG series. The only sliver of hope I have is that Kirsten Beyer is part of the creative team behind the nu-TNG show. But it's just a sliver. They're going to write a show that sells, plain and simple.
Personally I do think there are ways to preserve the novel continuity and still create a good show that sells, while not requiring viewers to really have any foreknowledge of the novels. Esp. since the show is several years after the current novel continuity. There are a few basics I think they'd need to take into account. One is the Borg as we know them are gone (though I'm sure if they wanted to they could bring back a new version of the Borg...though honestly I'd be just as happy to see the Borg lay dormant, I love the Borg but they've been more than covered over the years). Another is Picard has a son with Beverly who would be a teenager I believe by the timeframe of the show. Picard and Crusher do not necessarily have to still be together though. I actually think Rene could add some potential drama to the series. I said before Picard having a teenage son he has to deal with could create some storylines. Those are the two major plot points of the novels that have to do with Picard specifically that would need to be preserved for the show to allow the novels to continue. There are other things of course, but nothing that could not easily be incorporated into the narrative (i.e. Data was resurrected, Picard commanded the Enterprise for a number of years after Nemesis, things that are historical but really would not necessarily have an impact on current stories). If they kept the show more forward looking and less on the past, and kept those basics, it's possible the novel continuity could continue and gradually align with the nu-TNG show as the years go on.
Now, I have honest doubts that will happen. As another poster noted, once the nu-TNG show comes out and if it does indeed jettison the current novel continuity, the relaunches of the affected shows (TNG, DS9 and Voyager probably) will come to an end. As another poster noted, they are not going to continue a narrative that conflicts with on-screen canon. One line could pretty much demolish it all (Picard left the Enterprise a year after Nemesis and never had any children). I'll still have my old novels, however, sadly, there will be no further novels in that timeline. They aren't going to have an alternate Picard future distinct from the nu-TNG show. It's not how things are done typically outside a very few specific situations (i.e. the Rihannsu novels, which while distinct, even in the last books some canon info about Romulans was incorporated).
Personally I do think there are ways to preserve the novel continuity and still create a good show that sells, while not requiring viewers to really have any foreknowledge of the novels. Esp. since the show is several years after the current novel continuity. There are a few basics I think they'd need to take into account. One is the Borg as we know them are gone (though I'm sure if they wanted to they could bring back a new version of the Borg...though honestly I'd be just as happy to see the Borg lay dormant, I love the Borg but they've been more than covered over the years). Another is Picard has a son with Beverly who would be a teenager I believe by the timeframe of the show. Picard and Crusher do not necessarily have to still be together though. I actually think Rene could add some potential drama to the series. I said before Picard having a teenage son he has to deal with could create some storylines. Those are the two major plot points of the novels that have to do with Picard specifically that would need to be preserved for the show to allow the novels to continue. There are other things of course, but nothing that could not easily be incorporated into the narrative (i.e. Data was resurrected, Picard commanded the Enterprise for a number of years after Nemesis, things that are historical but really would not necessarily have an impact on current stories). If they kept the show more forward looking and less on the past, and kept those basics, it's possible the novel continuity could continue and gradually align with the nu-TNG show as the years go on.
Now, I have honest doubts that will happen. As another poster noted, once the nu-TNG show comes out and if it does indeed jettison the current novel continuity, the relaunches of the affected shows (TNG, DS9 and Voyager probably) will come to an end. As another poster noted, they are not going to continue a narrative that conflicts with on-screen canon. One line could pretty much demolish it all (Picard left the Enterprise a year after Nemesis and never had any children). I'll still have my old novels, however, sadly, there will be no further novels in that timeline. They aren't going to have an alternate Picard future distinct from the nu-TNG show. It's not how things are done typically outside a very few specific situations (i.e. the Rihannsu novels, which while distinct, even in the last books some canon info about Romulans was incorporated).
Please get rid of a desk full of PADDS...utterly ridiculous!
Stop killing off Worf's lovers
Stop killing off Worf's lovers
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I do feel bad complaining about the $16 price tag for that reason. I do enjoy the novels and complaining about the price feels like I'm saying it's not worth it. For me the problem is just the sudden jump from $7.99 to $16 per book. Had it been more gradual over a period of time it might have made it easier. In a way I'm almost glad there isn't a book every month this year because I'd probably have to pick and choose what books to buy. But since they are spread out this year I can probably buy all of them. So at least from my perspective I don't complain about the price because I don't feel you guys are worth what you get paid, it's more from an affordability perspective and it's just a such a significant jump at one time. It'll take a while to get used to it.
It also bothers me for another reason, and that is I'm not sure we'll ever see another Enterprise or Voyager book once "To Lose the Earth" is released. I'm not sure there is a market for a $16 Enterprise or Voyager book, or even Deep Space Nine. A lot of us here enjoy those novels, but do enough people buy them that Pocketbooks will feel it worth releasing future novels at that price point?
Well, plus it may be moot because I believe they are going to gradually shift more toward show centric novels for Discovery and the nu-TNG show (and of course the original series) and I think eventually novels based on the other spin-offs will gradually disappear. That's just my opinion but it seems to make marketing sense to me, even if it would make me very sad
The job of the tie-ins is to follow the lead of the shows, not the other way around. When Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens got on the Enterprise writing staff, they didn't hesitate to contradict their own previous Trek novels. The show will do what it needs to do, and the books will adapt to that one way or the other, same as it's always been.
The weird thing is that the books stayed at $7.99 for something like 12 years. If the price had continued to go up at the same rate it did over the previous 12 years, it'd probably be $13-14 now anyway.
There are always e-books. Maybe Pocket would eventually be open to doing something longer than a novella in that format. I don't know of any current plans to revive the Trek e-book line, but e-books are an integral part of the industry now, so it doesn't seem unlikely.
Yeah, it would have been less jarring had it been doing that all along. I hate to advocate higher prices, but had it been going up gradually over the last several years, then $16 probably wouldn't seem as bad. It's just sort of a price shock to go from $7.99 to $16 at once. But with this year the books spread out maybe that will help us get used to it.
I'd be ok with that. I'm old school so I do prefer actual hardcopies of the books, and if both versions are available I will buy the hardcopy before an E-book. But I have bought and read E-books when that was the only version available. And if that's how they decided to continue the other spinoff series I'd be game....I mean, it's far preferable to nothing.
I guess you guys should all take some pride that a lot of us would be disappointed if the novel continuity were jettisoned. I remember back when First Contact came out I thought I had Earth's future history figured out with the prelude to "Strangers from the Sky" (which I believed was based on something else though I don't recall what). Then the film came out and I was a little upset that was basically cancelled out by the film. But I loved the film so that helped me get over it
. And there have been books that I've enjoyed that have been jettisoned by later canon. But this feels different because we're not talking about a single book or storyline. But years of narrative. And I give all you guys credit because I've come to care about characters and storylines never seen on the show. I was saddened by the death of Choudhury and President Bacco for instance. And I'm fascinated by all the machinations among the Typhon Pact allies. In a way I guess you can say I've become invested in the relaunches and I can't help but hope the narrative of those stories can be preserved in some way, no matter how slim that hope may be.
Honestly, I don't see any problem with the novel-continuity.
The Picard-series will be about 20 years after Nemesis.
Nemesis is set in the year 2379, der Picard-series maybe in 2399/2400.
Star Trek 11 was the last movie, that said anything about the main timeline (nothing more than the destruction of Romulus and Spock's disappearance), is set in 2387 - 12 years before the Picard-serie.
I think, all of the newer novels are set in this time-frame: 2379-2387.
The Picard-series might start in 2399, at least 12 years after the novel-timeline. We will see, what Picard will do in THIS time, not what he did in the last 20 years. Yes, they might mention some important events. Why and when did he leave the Enterprise? Did he become an ambassador or something totally different?
I'm sure, they will NOT say: No, there never was a T'Ryssa Chen on the Enterprise. No, there never was a Typhon pact. No, Worf did not become first officer.... All these things will not matter for the Picard-series.
So when the show starts. the authors will have enough time to fill the years 2387-2399, to the point that shows Picard's life in 2399.
Okay, some things can be problematic: Picards marriage with Beverly Crusher, their son, maybe Data's return.... But hey, it's Science fiction
The authors will find ways to explain it. Data could "die" again... Picards & Crusher were married in an alternative timeline, like in All Good Things....
So the jump to Picard's future is so big, that the few information, they will give us about this time, can be worked into the novel-continuity.
The Picard-series will be about 20 years after Nemesis.
Nemesis is set in the year 2379, der Picard-series maybe in 2399/2400.
Star Trek 11 was the last movie, that said anything about the main timeline (nothing more than the destruction of Romulus and Spock's disappearance), is set in 2387 - 12 years before the Picard-serie.
I think, all of the newer novels are set in this time-frame: 2379-2387.
The Picard-series might start in 2399, at least 12 years after the novel-timeline. We will see, what Picard will do in THIS time, not what he did in the last 20 years. Yes, they might mention some important events. Why and when did he leave the Enterprise? Did he become an ambassador or something totally different?
I'm sure, they will NOT say: No, there never was a T'Ryssa Chen on the Enterprise. No, there never was a Typhon pact. No, Worf did not become first officer.... All these things will not matter for the Picard-series.
So when the show starts. the authors will have enough time to fill the years 2387-2399, to the point that shows Picard's life in 2399.
Okay, some things can be problematic: Picards marriage with Beverly Crusher, their son, maybe Data's return.... But hey, it's Science fiction
The authors will find ways to explain it. Data could "die" again... Picards & Crusher were married in an alternative timeline, like in All Good Things....So the jump to Picard's future is so big, that the few information, they will give us about this time, can be worked into the novel-continuity.
Honestly, I don't see any problem with the novel-continuity.
The Picard-series will be about 20 years after Nemesis.
Nemesis is set in the year 2379, der Picard-series maybe in 2399/2400.
Star Trek 11 was the last movie, that said anything about the main timeline (nothing more than the destruction of Romulus and Spock's disappearance), is set in 2387 - 12 years before the Picard-serie.
I think, all of the newer novels are set in this time-frame: 2379-2387.
The Picard-series might start in 2399, at least 12 years after the novel-timeline. We will see, what Picard will do in THIS time, not what he did in the last 20 years. Yes, they might mention some important events. Why and when did he leave the Enterprise? Did he become an ambassador or something totally different?
I'm sure, they will NOT say: No, there never was a T'Ryssa Chen on the Enterprise. No, there never was a Typhon pact. No, Worf did not become first officer.... All these things will not matter for the Picard-series.
So when the show starts. the authors will have enough time to fill the years 2387-2399, to the point that shows Picard's life in 2399.
Okay, some things can be problematic: Picards marriage with Beverly Crusher, their son, maybe Data's return.... But hey, it's Science fiction
So the jump to Picard's future is so big, that the few information, they will give us about this time, can be worked into the novel-continuity.
Yeah, that's why I think it's possible to design a new show that doesn't contradict canon. But at the same time one line can bring it all crashing down. "The Enterprise-E was destroyed a year after Nemesis and 10 years later Picard had another battle with the Borg and Picard is childless and never married" . That would be pretty much irreconcilable with the current novel continuity.
I do think there are certainly ways to preserve the novel continuity if they wished to in a way that still leaves tons of room for new stories and not be at all necessary to read novels. Setting it 20 years after Nemesis does help. And they can do a lot with future novels to bring any changes in line with the nu-TNG show since it's still 12+ years later then the most current novel.
It's just one or two lines in the nu-TNG show can send the whole deck of cards crashing down.
And as I often point out, all science fiction universes will eventually be rendered obsolete by real discoveries or just the calendar catching up.
I live in hope that Picard won't have had a family. Biggest creative misfire of the relaunch books.
The main thing I would be sad to see "go" is the DS9 run from Avatar to Never-Ending Sacrifice, but it seems pretty unlikely that anything related to that would come up in a Picard-focused show.
The main thing I would be sad to see "go" is the DS9 run from Avatar to Never-Ending Sacrifice, but it seems pretty unlikely that anything related to that would come up in a Picard-focused show.
M
marlboro
Guest
On Picard having a family: I've always thought of Picard as a somewhat lonely man. Someone who sacrificed family and home for duty and the chance to explore. someone who frequently struggles to interact with people on a non-professional level. At best, he ends up with a pseudo-family made up of the Enterprise crew. He finally realises that and embraces it at the end of All Good Things. Which is a happy ending, imo.
One of the aspects that I liked best about The Inner Light is that Picard gets to have the children and loving wife that he missed out on in the real world. It's sort of like having to miss your kids growing up because you spend all your time working to provide for them, but magically being able to go back and be there for them too. A hard life but with the perfect reward.
I did find it odd that three captains had kids around the same time. Sisko's was expected, of course, but it was kind of odd having Picard and Riker follow suit.
On the DS9 Relaunch: Ironically, the time jump that brought the series up to date with TNG may be its undoing. As amazing as it was, I now wish the series had ended one or two books after Warpath. Wrap up the Ascendance story, the Avatar story, and destroy the station in one fell swoop without the clumsy time jump. Give it the glorious send-off it deserved.
On the subject of DS9: I've seen a lot of people disparage the post Unity books. I strongly disagree with them. I thought the "Worlds of..." and " Soul Key" storylines were fantastic. While I was disappointed in how the Prime Universe side of the Soul Key story was handled, it did lead to some brilliant Mirror Universe books by David Mack.
Christopher, that's what Greg Cox is for. He'll write a book explaining how it all really went down
The only thing new I really have to add to this discussion is that I sincerely hope that we get more than four books a year from here on out. It would have been impossible to create the vast storytelling tapestry that is the Litverse over the last two decades within the confines of two non-TOS books a year, and it will be impossible for it to continue in any worthwhile way in that situation as well.
I was fine with Picard having a family. It might have been a bit soap operaish to have him marry Beverly in some ways, though it always seemed during the show they were building to something. But I think after Generations it seemed to become more important to him so it felt more or less natural that he'd finally have a child.
About DS9 I didn't care for the time jump either. I felt a bit lost when reading the Typhon Pact books that brought everything forward. I knew Dax was on the Aventine (and the Soul Key I think it was even made mention of her desire to pursue command), but there were so many unexplained changes it was a bit jarring. Thankfully some future books filled in some of the gaps and it all makes sense now, but at the time it was a bit confusing. They probably would have been better filling in the gap first, at least IMO.
