It really didn't.
Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)
- Thread starter chrinFinity
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I can see the argument that you and Christopher are making about Picard being ready for a family after all the events of the series and in Generations. It makes sense. But I still question one of the big decisions made by the Star Trek novelists:
Why Beverly Crusher?
We saw some instances during the latter seasons of TNG where Picard & Crusher toyed with the idea of becoming romantically involved. But the episode Attached showed them both that it probably wasn't a good idea. All Good Things... showed that, in one timeline, they did try marriage and found out definitively that they weren't a good fit. Lessons showed Picard that he risked losing his command objectivity when he was involved w/ someone under his command who he had to send into dangerous situations. Seems to me that the series clearly stated that, despite their mutual attraction, Picard and Crusher were NOT a good romantic match.
Kamala in The Perfect Mate demonstrated what qualities an ideal match for Picard would have. While a brilliant & talented woman, Crusher didn't have all those qualities. But, few of us actually find a perfect match for our partners. Vash was a lot of fun, and shared Picard's interest in archeology, but she wasn't really that good a long-term match.
Also, if Picard continued to think of Crusher as a potential life & love partner, why, in his perfect fantasy scenario in the Nexus, didn't Picard imagine being married to Beverly Crusher? I think this point is a telling blow for Beverly being the go-to choice for the novelists to select to marry Picard to.
I would argue that Beverly is the cliche choice. The typical American TV choice. The easy choice. The "shippers' choice". All too often on American TV series, we see two characters play the "will they or won't they" game. 99% of the time, they eventually do get together, pleasing most long-time fans for the last few seasons of the series. Incidentally, most series (by my estimation) don't last a long time past such a pairing, as a lot of the (arguably) romantic tension has been drained from the characters. As a comic book writer once opined -- of course Peter Parker and Mary Jane (or Reed and Sue, or Clark and Lois) fight after they get together, or the female gets kidnapped. Reading about happily-married couples is boring, or at least harder than a lot of writers want to tackle. Granted, I'm way behind in my Trek reading, but can anyone cite instances of serious character development centered around Picard & Crusher's marriage, or is it just... there?
So that's my question. Why did Picard marry Crusher instead of someone else? I never saw a clear march to togetherness, despite obstacles, for Picard and Crusher, unlike for Riker and Troi. In fact, I saw the opposite. I think they should have remained fast friends and found other mates. Was this just the easy choice?
Some shows have lasted for a quite a while after the characters got together, Bones and Booth were together for 6 seasons of the shows 12 season run, and in Castle, Castle and Becket were together for 4 of it's 8 seasons.
From a creative perspective, I can see the appeal of getting together characters like Picard and Crusher. There is going to be a lot more emotional investment on the part of readers/views when we have to familiar characters get together, than introducing new characters as their partners.
And that's why I said it was the easy choice. Don't need to work to create a new character that the audience cares about -- that work has already been done. I didn't really follow the show Friends, but I got the impression that some of the pairings between the regular characters got decidedly mixed reactions from fans -- from cheers to WTF?!'s. Because it's easier to use existing characters that already have connections and then claim there's something more there. Even if the results didn't last very long because they made little sense...
Christopher had a pretty good rationale for Crusher. It seemed the TV show was preparing us for that eventuality but continually put it off. "I have something to tell you'' but then an emergency comes up, maybe later. Then they ran out of show.
As far as I know in Generations that was not someone he actually knew. I think it was simply in his mind who would the type of wife he would envision. I don't think she represented a 'real' person, just the type of wife he would picture in his mind.
We never find the 'perfect' mate in real life because everyone has their flaws.
Now I don't disagree Crusher seemed the easy choice. It was set up sort of like Ross and Rachel in Friends, you kind of knew in the back of your mind they would end up together ultimately because it was hinted at about 57 times in TNG. And an argument could be made maybe it lacked a bit of creativity.
Now, over the years, I've gotten used to it. This thread is actually the first time I really thought about it again in these terms because I just accept it now.
As far as I know in Generations that was not someone he actually knew. I think it was simply in his mind who would the type of wife he would envision. I don't think she represented a 'real' person, just the type of wife he would picture in his mind.
We never find the 'perfect' mate in real life because everyone has their flaws.
Now I don't disagree Crusher seemed the easy choice. It was set up sort of like Ross and Rachel in Friends, you kind of knew in the back of your mind they would end up together ultimately because it was hinted at about 57 times in TNG. And an argument could be made maybe it lacked a bit of creativity.
Now, over the years, I've gotten used to it. This thread is actually the first time I really thought about it again in these terms because I just accept it now.
Alternatively, who else would it be? Picard taking that step of marriage and children would feel like a complete case of this relationship coming out of nowhere, that this hypothetical female character was introduced - CREATED - just to act as Picard’s wife and incubator, without any concern for who she is as an individual.
Picard and Crusher have history. They have foundation. For a relationship that is going to be accepted in fiction, we the audience must see the foundation. Particularly considering that the relationship and conception of Rene happened early on in the post-Nemesis TNG books, with Rene being born within about two years of Nemesis’s conclusion, there really wasn’t anyone with that foundation and established history OTHER than Beverly Crusher.
Picard and Crusher have history. They have foundation. For a relationship that is going to be accepted in fiction, we the audience must see the foundation. Particularly considering that the relationship and conception of Rene happened early on in the post-Nemesis TNG books, with Rene being born within about two years of Nemesis’s conclusion, there really wasn’t anyone with that foundation and established history OTHER than Beverly Crusher.
But again, if this is a projection of Picard's ultimate fantasy for a happy life, why wasn't it Beverly? Just seems to me to weaken the argument...
I don't think that's what "Attached" showed -- I think it just showed that the writers were too timid to actually do anything with the romantic tension they'd spent the past 7 years hinting at between Picard and Crusher. That episode didn't have any point where they said "We're attracted to each other but it would be a bad idea" -- it just had a point where they said "We're attracted to each other" and then they just let it lie there, belatedly acknowledging the obvious but being tiresomely vague about what, if anything, they would do about it next.
I think the novelists put Picard and Crusher together because it was something the show always hinted at but never did, so we just wanted to resolve that tension and let it actually happen. A lot of what motivates me as a novelist, and I think what motivates others as well, is exploring missed opportunities and unrealized potentials from the shows. "Attached" was such a feeble, too-little-too-late way of addressing Picard/Crusher that something more substantial was demanded, if you ask me.
A lot of things about the AGT future went badly, but the payoff was that knowing about that future gave them the chance to make a better one. So maybe P&C could make a marriage work by avoiding the mistakes they made in that future.
But he was a lot younger then than he is in the novels. He's gained more maturity and is better able to have a healthy, balanced relationship. Again, mistakes can be learned from.
Nonsense. A fantasy and a real relationship are two different things. Real people are imperfect, which makes them more worthwhile than fantasies.
Besides, the real reason is that there wasn't room in the movie. They would've needed to take the time to re-establish the attraction and history between Picard & Crusher in order for that payoff to be meaningful and not confusing to casual viewers, and there was never really much room in the movies to focus on characters other than Picard, Data, Riker, and Worf.
Nah, not really. Generations was several years before their marriage after Nemesis. I think what really brought it to the fore is when she decided to leave for Starfleet Medical. He realized just how important she was to him.
I think maybe he got a bit comfortable, knowing she was always around when he needed her. It's when he faced the prospect of losing that, that I think he finally realized how important she was to him, that he was still in love with her.
Yeah, and I think that was the point. The Nexus almost represented heaven, where you get whatever you want, and for all intents it was just that. I think most people had a vision at one time or another of a 'perfect mate' and his 'wife' represented that. I don't think it was ever meant to represent a real person. Just that he was in heaven and this is what his heavenly wife would be. But it's just a fantasy.
Was there a rush to have it happen right then? Other than have Picard's and Riker's kids be age-appropriate play-daters?
There was time to bring in and build up another character. Yes, like I said, it's hard to build a likeable, lasting character, much less one that will enter a relationship w/ a main character. Of course, they did it fairly well in some TNG episodes with Kamala, Vash, and Darren. TV does it all the time -- fall in and out of love in a hour. It's a trope.Again, that's why using an established character is easier. The connections are already there. The audience (hopefully) already likes them.
Please don't misunderstand me. Using an established character that already has a romantic connection isn't wrong. I just personally would have liked for a different choice to be made. YMMV. And I still haven't seen a compelling reason why Beverly was chosen. Just that she was already there, and some groundwork had been laid so it wasn't implausible. But was she the best choice?
Fair enough. I agree that Attached was not the best TNG episode, and a rather lame resolution to the drug-out "I have something to tell you" thread. I think part of what bothers me about Picard/Crusher is that it paralleled Riker/Troi in the Titan novels. I always thought R/T were destined to end up together from the first episode, less so regarding P/C, but is was annoying (to me, at least) to see the same relationship storyline going on pretty much simultaneously in both book lines. Hey, novelists, knock yourselves out exploring missed romantic opportunities and unrealized potentials, but do we really need to see essentially the same storyline in both book lines at the same time?
Now that I write it out, maybe that was what bothered me most. I could have accepted P/C getting together better if I weren't also seeing R/T do the same thing at the same time. Yes, details were different, but the similarities were multitudinous...
Again, fair point. But I'd still like to see more of that struggle, especially with the even deeper ties to a spouse and offspring he has now.
Yes, in real life, fantasy and reality are usually very different. But Hollywood makes a grand living using shorthand and cutting corners. Having Beverly be his wife in the Nexus would have been an easy way to show his true affections, pointing straight to the path the novels took. But Christopher stated the real reason we didn't see it -- they didn't want to devote time to the P/C relationship in an action movie, since it would delay them getting back to Soren blowing up planets...
Don't forget, time wasn't exactly on his side. Picard is getting older. Even in the future when lives are longer, the window doesn't last forever. By the time of Nemesis Picard was how old? He took command of the Stargazer in 2333 I believe it was. I'm not sure when he was born, but let's say he was 30 then. Nemesis took place in 2379 I think it was. by then he is already 76. Obviously in the future women are able to have children later in life because even assuming Beverly is several years younger, she'd still have to be in her 50s or 60s. I think it was to the point it was now or never.
Yes, I will agree that is an unfortunate parallel. I wish there was some way to differentiate the two couples but I can't think of a plausible way. I think part of the reason Picard and Crusher are together in the novels is to keep her on the ship. A minor reason, but it does keep her on the Enterprise. I don't think Picard would hinder her career path just because he wanted to keep his CMO. It would have to be more than that, and even more than friendship. (of course it was a choice she had made).
I'm not saying your arguments are weak. People have a lot of reasons for not wanting to see Picard and Crusher together. And some make some sense.
I'll admit I'm a bit biased. After all the teases during the show and never having a resolution, I kind of liked that he ended up with Crusher. Sometimes destiny can be a real thing. In the show, esp. in "Attached" I was almost screaming at the TV for some sort of resolution. But yet again they left the fruit hanging. And I don't believe they really explored it again after that except in the aborted future of "All Good Things".
It contributed to Picard’s personal stakes in Destiny, for one. Given that his arc, from Resistance through Destiny, was about him tackling head-on his lingering pains and traumas, and specifically with the Borg, this was two big issues for Picard - the trauma of his assimilation and his desire to have a family, the importance of his family legacy - are here, directly conflicting.
And, as Christopher said, in many ways, this was actually DOING something with the long established elephant in the room of the romantic tension that had always existed between them, but the TNG writers were, for whatever reason, unwilling to bring to a proper conclusion. The show never tried to conclusively address it, the movies didn’t care to focus on it, but to the audience, this is something that needed addressing, and no one ever offered what would be so bad about it - even All Good Things, when saying they’d broken up, never said what had been the cause.
So when the novels COULD do something, their decision was to address it directly and settle the matter. And, since the A Time To... books established that the novels were building on the cut references to Crusher going to Starfleet Medical, there were two immediate options, to either let her go, at a point that the Enterprise was already absent several familiar faces, or being her back. What would pull her back to the Enterprise, instead of remaining at Medical? Addressing it directly and bringing them together, making them take this step, made a good reason for Crusher to immediately give up this position she’d been moved to by the original drafts of Nemesis.
And, as Christopher said, in many ways, this was actually DOING something with the long established elephant in the room of the romantic tension that had always existed between them, but the TNG writers were, for whatever reason, unwilling to bring to a proper conclusion. The show never tried to conclusively address it, the movies didn’t care to focus on it, but to the audience, this is something that needed addressing, and no one ever offered what would be so bad about it - even All Good Things, when saying they’d broken up, never said what had been the cause.
So when the novels COULD do something, their decision was to address it directly and settle the matter. And, since the A Time To... books established that the novels were building on the cut references to Crusher going to Starfleet Medical, there were two immediate options, to either let her go, at a point that the Enterprise was already absent several familiar faces, or being her back. What would pull her back to the Enterprise, instead of remaining at Medical? Addressing it directly and bringing them together, making them take this step, made a good reason for Crusher to immediately give up this position she’d been moved to by the original drafts of Nemesis.
All this arguing over Picard would/wouldn't settle down strikes me as a bit odd. People aren't set in stone, and they often make choices in life that an earlier version of themselves would not have. Picard remains a bachelor. Quite possible. Picard settles down and raises a family. Equally possible.
Thank you for the example. It's been a while since I read Destiny and I'd forgotten some of that subtext.
The practical consideration of keeping the character of Crusher on the Enterprise makes a lot of sense. I can accept that as a really good reason, even if it's at the meta level.
As far as P/C's marriage paying off the romantic teasing of many episodes of TNG, I don't hate the idea; I'm just still very "meh" about it. I was fine with them staying close friends. But I realize I'm apparently in the minority. And I'm good with that. And everyone else can enjoy their unfolding relationship. It's all good.
I think it was really just coincidence. The Titan books were edited by Marco Palmieri, the TNG books by Margaret Clark. Also, it was my independent idea to have Riker and Troi start talking about starting a family in Orion's Hounds, and Dave Mack then followed through on that in Destiny. As for TNG, I was asked by Margaret to have Picard and Crusher start a family (it's a weird coincidence that I was the writer who got both kids started, as it were), and I suppose maybe she had her own plans based on what she wanted for that series.
Frankly I find the formulation of the question rather male-centric, as if everything were about Picard with Beverly being nothing more than an interchangeable, passive extension of his story. Beverly is a character in her own right, a full member of the TNG ensemble. If you're going to develop a relationship arc, it's richer if it's between two established members of the core cast, because then both participants have well-defined personalities and histories to draw on.
If anything, I think you'll find the story makes more sense if you think of it as centered on Crusher instead of centered on Picard. Look at her history, her journey as a character. Ask why she chose Picard as her spouse, not the other way around. She knew Picard for decades, was attracted to him from the start, but she fell in love with his best friend and married him instead. She had a son, lost her husband, and eventually was reunited with Picard, who became a mentor and something of a surrogate father to her son. Then her son grew up and moved on, and she was by herself again, but Picard was still there and there was nothing stopping them anymore except his fear of intimacy. Is it really any wonder that she would want to choose him as her second husband and the father of her second child? Crusher is more the driving force in their relationship than Picard is. She's the one who wanted marriage, who wanted another child. She's the one who helped him get to the point where he was emotionally ready for that.
I don't think it's the same at all, since the personalities are different and the dynamics are different. Riker was much more comfortable with the prospect of fatherhood than Picard is. He and Troi had far more trouble and angst trying to conceive. And Crusher had the experience of previously being married and raising a child to adulthood, unlike Troi (unless you count the alien entity baby in "The Child"). Yes, they both started families fairly close together, but no two families are alike.
An element of the Nexus fantasies is that they were unchallenging to the point of being soporific. It's not just that they were blandly written, it's a plot-point that they are, eventually, incredibly boring. You could say that Guinan and Soren weren't there enough for the novelty to wear off, or that the constant bombardment of joy just lulls you into a narcotic state where you just ride a tide of fantasy, all ups, no downs. Kirk would, if not enjoy, certainly appreciate it more if he'd broken his leg jumping that ravine. See also "A Nice Place to Visit," the Twilight Zone notable for likely being the root cause of the phrase "You'll get tired of winning" being in American politics.
My point is, a relationship with Beverly is challenging for Picard. There's so much baggage. From a Watsonian perspective, it's why he waited so long to pull the trigger. Would it be fulfilling? Would it be worth it? You know, probably. They seem happy enough so far. But the Nexus doesn't want that. It wants to wrap Picard up in joy like a blanket, and giving him a wife who has the slightest chance of causing the thought "Did I subconciously send my best friend to his death so I could be with her?" to speculate across his mind is the last thing it would do. That (and, you know, actor availability) would also explain who the hell Antonia is; presumably, Kirk's least complicated ex, where things just sort of petered out, without any unplanned pregnancy, or murder, or possibilities of the Nazis winning World War II. The one woman who would leave his mind untroubled and unquestioning.
I realize in story-time they were contemporaneous-ish (Picard and Crusher are first trying out being a couple right after Riker and Troi have married after a few years of being back together, so the relationships are offset by a few years), but in the real world Riker and Troi got back together in 1998, and got married in 2002, while Picard and Crusher got together in 2005, and got married in 2008. On the other hand, I realize I am splitting hairs a bit, and it is a little samey that, at this point in the novelverse, a significant number of captains/admirals are married to or involved their direct superiors or subordinates; Picard/Crusher, Riker/Troi, Janeway/Chakotay, Shelby/Calhoun... I don't quite remember what Kassidy's job is on the Robinson, but we might put her and Sisko on the list, too. SCE, Seekers, and RotF had captains who had partners off-ship, though.
I think that's missing the point. For most people, the Nexus would be heaven. But Kirk and Picard are not most people. They're dedicated to serving others rather than just themselves, and that duty and discipline give them the strength to resist the overpowering lure of the Nexus. It's not supposed to be boring; it's supposed to be paradise. But it's a long-standing thread in Trek -- indeed, a thread going back to the very first pilot -- that Starfleet captains are restless in paradise.
Okay, that's a better way of putting it. Not boring, just idealized, without the complexity and bumpiness of real relationships.
