Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[Yistaan]

Greg is 100% correct. "Tiered canon" is a fancy way of saying "not canon." Star Wars fans have always assumed that their tie-ins were canonical, but that never passed the smell test.

It was a deception with a basis in greed. Leland Chee, continuity manager, proudly proclaimed "Star Wars doesn't reboot" back in the day on twitter (I can't find the link, but he said it). LFL knew the fans would never buy the products if they didn't believe they had some canonical worth.

I'm not happy they're continuing that line with the new SW EU honestly. They say it's "really" all canon now. But like you quoted from @Greg Cox , why should we believe them now?

Star Trek was bluntly honest from the start.

 

[David cgc]

I'm not sure STO wants to synch itself with Picard. They've got a fun little cracked-out "Crisis on Infinite Treks" game universe set up, and they'd lose almost all of it if they tried to cut themselves down to the more restrained scope of any non-MMO Trek, be it the novelverse, Picard, or anything else. Just have that version of 2399 be another alternate universe you can visit for a minute.

 

[Yistaan]

I'm not sure STO wants to synch itself with Picard. They've got a fun little cracked-out "Crisis on Infinite Treks" game universe set up, and they'd lose almost all of it if they tried to cut themselves down to the more restrained scope of any non-MMO Trek, be it the novelverse, Picard, or anything else. Just have that version of 2499 be another alternate universe you can visit for a minute.

Well, if Age of Discovery and how quickly STO added Discovery material into the game (despite how jarring it is with the rest of STO aesthetic) is any indication, STO does want to ride the wave of hype for the new Trek tv shows.

The thing is, it might not actually be that hard to incorporate Picard. STO is notably 10 years after Picard by all indications (Picard is 2399 per comic con, STO is now at 2411 but started at 2409). There's not much in the game that contradicts what we know of Picard so far, only the tie-in novel "Needs of the Many", online story of "Path to 2409" and all the tie-in short stories contradict. So those all have to go, but notably the game itself might not.

Keep in mind

Spoiler

Data is never outright shown or stated to be alive in STO per my knowledge (I haven't gotten that far in the game so someone can correct me). There's someone who visits Sela who is strongly implied to be Data because he has the Tasha hologram, but that's not confirmation and it can still be retconned to be someone else.

Seven of Nine being in STO might be more complicated, depending on where Picard takes her character. Worst case scenario, as much as I love Jeri Ryan, maybe she should be removed from the game and replaced with Icheb or someone, or Jeri could record new lines that take Picard into account.

 

[KRAD]

LFL knew the fans would never buy the products if they didn't believe they had some canonical worth.

Which is utter nonsense. As I said elsewhere, these novels reach less than 10% of the audience. And most of them don't give a fuck about canon.

 

[JD]

I'll cut you some slack, but I'm not keen on the "you must not have read" the new canon if you don't like it. Why do you think I stopped reading them?


And I won't get the money back on all those works, money spent trying to "prove" to people I read the new canon so I can judge it, etc. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were refusing to watch or read any of the new stuff just because they stopped the Legends EU.
I've gotta disagree with you pretty much every point here.

I won't get back the hours wasted reading Dark Disciple, or Dr. Aphra, or comic book pages where Leia is verbally abusive and hits people.

I haven't read her solo comic, but I've loved Aphra in the Vader series, and you are the first person I've come across with any race related issues with her.
I just read Dark Disciple back in Janurary, and I loved absolutely loved it.
I'm only up to Volume 5, but so far I've been loving the subtitleless Star Wars comic, and haven't had any problems with Leia's characterization.

I won't get back the hours wasted watching every single episode of Rebels hoping it gets better.

Rebels did start a little rough, but by the 3rd Season I thought it had become one of the best parts of the franchise.

I'm not happy they're continuing that line with the new SW EU honestly. They say it's "really" all canon now. But like you quoted from @Greg Cox , why should we believe them now?

Well, they do have the Story Group now, whose whole job is to work with everyone, even the TV and movie people, to keep things consistent. I doubt they can veto stuff the movie and TV people want to do, but they should at least be aware enough of what they're doing on that side of the franchise to keep the tie-ins more or less consistent with them.
I just double checked on Wookiepedia, and it was one of the Story Group members who recommended using Saw Gerrera in Rogue One, so they do at least have some input on that side of things.

 

[Stevil2001]

I think the one thing worth noting about Star Wars tie-in is that though they weren't "canon" in the sense of George Lucas giving any shits about some comic book, all the tie-ins were pretty much obligated to be internally consistent, which is not the case with Star Trek. I know it wasn't perfectly done (definitely contradictions piled up), but you wouldn't get something like Crucible or Hive, for better or for worse.

 

[Yistaan]

Well, they do have the Story Group now

I doubt Story Group has much power. If, say, Jon Favreau declared he really, really, really wanted to use Maul in his upcoming tv show 'The Mandalorian', which takes place after ROTJ, are they going to tell him "No" because he died in some obscure episode of the cartoon Rebels?

 

[Masiral]

I doubt Story Group has much power. If, say, Jon Favreau declared he really, really, really wanted to use Maul in his upcoming tv show 'The Mandalorian', which takes place after ROTJ, are they going to tell him "No" because he died in some obscure episode of the cartoon Rebels?

Yes. Jon Favreau cares about the animated series, considering he voiced a Mandalorian on several episodes of "The Clone Wars". And "The Mandalorian" would be at the same tier as both "The Clone Wars" and "Rebels", so it's not like he could override Dave Filoni on that one.

 

[Yistaan]

Yes. Jon Favreau cares about the animated series, considering he voiced a Mandalorian on several episodes of "The Clone Wars". And "The Mandalorian" would be at the same tier as both "The Clone Wars" and "Rebels", so it's not like he could override Dave Filoni on that one.

Fair enough. I used his name, but it could be any other big time director in the future.

Yeah, I know Jon's Pre Vizsla: "This lightsaber was taken by my ancestors from your Jedi Temple during the fall of the Old Republic. Since then, many Jedi have died upon his blade. Prepare yourself to join them!"

"Like you said, only the strongest shall rule."

 

[Masiral]

Fair enough. I used his name, but it could be any other big time director in the future.

And if Benioff, Weiss, or Johnson asked, they'd also be told no. I doubt we'll see a director with the clout to make those kinds of demands for a long time. Also, The TV shows are going to be at the same level as the movies - "The Clone Wars" was even carried over from the old EU. Maul's appearance in "Solo" maintained continuity with "Rebels".

 

[Yistaan]

Maul's appearance in "Solo" maintained continuity with "Rebels".

This is a bit of a stretch as Solo showed Maul to be head of a massive criminal organization, whereas Rebels showed he was pretty much on his own and had no help to turn to when hunting down Kenobi all by himself, without any explanation on why his underworld associates all suddenly couldn't be called upon (even if he was stuck on Malachor for a few years, most of them should still be contactable. Voldemort got his whole gang together in Harry Potter after being gone 13 years!).

 

[Masiral]

This is a bit of a stretch as Solo showed Maul to be head of a massive criminal organization, whereas Rebels showed he was pretty much on his own and had no help to turn to when hunting down Kenobi all by himself, without any explanation on why his underworld associates all suddenly couldn't be called upon (even if he was stuck on Malachor for a few years, most of them should still be contactable. Voldemort got his whole gang together in Harry Potter after being gone 13 years!).

Because that part of his story hasn't been told yet. There's still 7 years between "Solo" and "Rebels".

And Maul and Voldemort are very different situations. Maul led a bunch of criminals whose only loyalty was to money. Voldemort led a cult of fanatical bigots and managed to terrify the entire Wizarding World to the point that no one would even say his name.

 

[DimesDan]

Well my books haven't suddenly disappeared since the new Picard trailer dropped over the weekend.

Nor may I add did my Star Wars novels poof out of existence like Slughorns Waterlily when Disney acquired and relaunched/retooled the Star Wars continuity.

 

[Starbreaker]

There are posters who said that Star Trek 2009 invalidated all of their Star Trek shows that came before and they're doing ok. We can survive this.

 

[Yistaan]

Nor may I add did my Star Wars novels poof out of existence like Slughorns Waterlily when Disney acquired and relaunched/retooled the Star Wars continuity.

They stopped being continued. We'll never get a sequel to the Force Unleashed, Dark Forces video games, or even X-Wing/TIE Fighter.

Star Trek is different, none of the expanded universe characters had the popularity of SW's Kyle Katarn, Starkiller, etc. The most prominent Trek characters in their EU were the film/tv characters who will still get new stories in Picard, etc. That's not even remotely the case in SW where non-film characters like Zayne Carrick, Revan etc. held up entire series on their own. What EU Trek character can say that? And those SW EU characters will never have new stories told about them again, barring extremely rare exceptions (Thrawn got lucky).

 

[Admiral Rex]

IF the current Treklit continuity immediately stops, they could always revisit aspects of it in a Waypoint comic.

 

[DimesDan]

They stopped being continued. We'll never get a sequel to the Force Unleashed, Dark Forces video games, or even X-Wing/TIE Fighter.

Ok then, but that wasn't my point in the slightest.

 

[JoeZhang]

They stopped being continued. We'll never get a sequel to the Force Unleashed, Dark Forces video games, or even X-Wing/TIE Fighter.

Star Trek is different, none of the expanded universe characters had the popularity of SW's Kyle Katarn, Starkiller, etc. The most prominent Trek characters in their EU were the film/tv characters who will still get new stories in Picard, etc. That's not even remotely the case in SW where non-film characters like Zayne Carrick, Revan etc. held up entire series on their own. What EU Trek character can say that? And those SW EU characters will never have new stories told about them again, barring extremely rare exceptions (Thrawn got lucky).

Hum... good point... none had breakout popularity or were particularly memorable.

 

[Yistaan]

EDIT: Never mind, I think I misunderstood your post as saying no SW EU character was memorable, instead of Trek EU character

 

[JoeZhang]

EDIT: Never mind, I think I misunderstood your post as saying no SW EU character was memorable, instead of Trek EU character

Yes - quite alot of SW EU characters were popular to the level that even if you never read any of their adventures if you were broadly into science fiction or SW you might know who they are. Like I never read the Thrawn novels or anything eith Mara Jade but knew who they were. You cannot say that about a single ST literverse character.