New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

[Warped9]

Speaking of Enemy Within, somehow I never realized before that the only reason they came up with the green tunic was to differentiate the two Kirks.

That is interesting. We got to see that alternate only twice I believe (also in "Charlie X") and yet it remains my favourite of all Trek uniforms. I like it better than the 2nd season version even though its basically the same concept.


If they'd kept the 1st season alternate tunic.

 

[EnsignHarper]

Watching the episode, it's as if they'd all known each other for years. I guess that's ACTinggg!

In TOS with just a few lines of dialogue you got the idea that everyone knew each other pretty well from the get-go.
I wish they'd done that a bit more in STID. After all they were together for at least 6 months before the movie. Sometimes it looked like nuKirk and nuSpock had just met.

That is exactly why that Joe Sargent had a full rehearsal day prior to shooting the first day. Since their were three new regulars, and Doohan and Takei had only been on WNMHGB for a few days - Shatner didn't recognize Takei at all when seeing him again at a shoot in between! - he figured it was essentially a new cast, and needed to get to know one another.

 

[davejames]

That is interesting. We got to see that alternate only twice I believe (also in "Charlie X") and yet it remains my favourite of all Trek uniforms. I like it better than the 2nd season version even though its basically the same concept.

I always found the gold trim around the neck a bit distracting myself. Although I did prefer the thicker material of that version to the more body-hugging green tunics we saw later.

 

[davejames]

Wow, just read the chapter on Court Martial, and was surprised to see just how vehemently opposed NBC was to doing the story. The idea never seemed that out of place to me on the series, and you'd think they'd realize how inherently dramatic and exciting it would be to see Kirk put on trial (and of course the network had no problem with having another court martial in the Menagerie two-parter for some reason).

I realize they were hungry for more action and adventure, but it should have been obvious that Roddenberry and the studio didn't exactly have the money to do that every week. There were going to have to be some smaller bottle episodes now and then, and I thought this episode was one of the better examples of that (surprised to see the producers were so unhappy with it-- although I agree the bit with the white noise microphone was pretty silly).

This is also the first time I think the author goes a bit overboard with his criticism of the episode. I don't mind hearing his perspective, but we don't need an entire page devoted to every little nitpick he has.

 

[Indysolo]

The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.

 

[EnsignHarper]

Wow, just read the chapter on Court Martial, and was surprised to see just how vehemently opposed NBC was to doing the story. The idea never seemed that out of place to me on the series, and you'd think they'd realize how inherently dramatic and exciting it would be to see Kirk put on trial (and of course the network had no problem with having another court martial in the Menagerie two-parter for some reason).

I realize they were hungry for more action and adventure, but it should have been obvious that Roddenberry and the studio didn't exactly have the money to do that every week. There were going to have to be some smaller bottle episodes now and then, and I thought this episode was one of the better examples of that (surprised to see the producers were so unhappy with it-- although I agree the bit with the white noise microphone was pretty silly).

I think NBC never understood the idea that the ENTERPRISE was as much of a star of the show as any of the actors - something Roddenberry had been trying to sell to them over and over again.

 

[Maurice]

Do we have any evidence that Roddenberry did, in fact, try to sell them on this idea of the ship being a star?

 

[trevanian]

Well, if there were even a quarter-as-many war vets among the suits as there were among the writer/producers, they should have been receptive to the Nightingale Woman aspects of man machine love. If there weren't any vets, than GR probably wouldn't have bothered with that angle, though based on Kirk's speech about HER in NAKED TIME, it is clear that GR or Black felt it pretty important.

 

[Harvey]

Do we have any evidence that Roddenberry did, in fact, try to sell them on this idea of the ship being a star?

I haven't seen anything indicating this. If he did, it obviously didn't work. NBC wanted to see strange new worlds as often as possible, and grumbled at nearly every bottle show outline submitted to them.

I know Warped9 has made it there, but has anyone else made it to the chapter on 'The Alternative Factor?' I still think the author's central narrative there -- that NBC forced a late re-write to avoid an interracial (that is, black/white) romance -- is asserted without any evidence. There's no memo that actually says it, and no interview after the fact that supports it.

Thinking further, if this is true, it's sort of odd that Roddenberry (who loved to blame NBC) never opened up about this in public. He never had a problem asserting the network was racist or too meddling before.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^In my review of the first draft script of "The Alternative Factor" I speculated that perhaps that may have been a reason the storyline was changed. One of many possible reasons. I understand that the author does credit Orion Press, so perhaps he picked up on that speculation and ran with it.

http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/alternative_factor2.htm

Sir Rhosis

 

[GSchnitzer]

Do we have any evidence that Roddenberry did, in fact, try to sell them on this idea of the ship being a star?

I haven't seen anything indicating this. If he did, it obviously didn't work. NBC wanted to see strange new worlds as often as possible, and grumbled at nearly every bottle show outline submitted to them.

I know Warped9 has made it there, but has anyone else made it to the chapter on 'The Alternative Factor?' I still think the author's central narrative there -- that NBC forced a late re-write to avoid an interracial (that is, black/white) romance -- is asserted without any evidence. There's no memo that actually says it, and no interview after the fact that supports it.

Thinking further, if this is true, it's sort of odd that Roddenberry (who loved to blame NBC) never opened up about this in public. He never had a problem asserting the network was racist or too meddling before.

You'd think that NBC would simply force a recasting of the Lieutenant Charlene Masters role by replacing the late Janet MacLachlan with someone else, instead of forcing a late rewrite to the script. I'm thinking that phone call would be about 30 seconds long.

 

[GSchnitzer]

The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.

If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Enemy Within
Charlie X
The Conscience of the King
Court Martial
This Side of Paradise

 

[Warped9]

From what I read regarding "The Alternative Factor" NBC had two reservations. Yes, they were uneasy about the depiction of an interracial romance, but they also were bothered by the idea of Charlene Masters betraying Kirk and the ship to help Lazarus. They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.

It follows that if you eliminate the romance then you have no grounds for establishing a betrayal. They tried writing it so that Masters could help Lazarus without betraying Kirk, but it doesn't seem to have worked well enough to anyone's satisfaction. The final alternative was to recast the role of Masters with a white actress, but they didn't really want to do that either. So in the end they kept the actress and her character but just eliminated the romance and betrayal. Thus Masters became just another crew person that served no real dramatic function.

I didn't get the sense that anyone really fought over this, but that it was just one more thing that was going wrong and most everyone just wanted to get this one over with and be done with it.

I always wondered why it had to be Kirk alone that had to force Lazurus into his ship when he had Spock and a security detail right there to help him out.

 

[Harvey]

They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.

'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.

I'll have to re-read the chapter in question and respond in more detail.

 

[GSchnitzer]

They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.

'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.

I'll have to re-read the chapter in question and respond in more detail.

Much (but it doesn't look like all) of the chapter is here:

http://www.jacobsbrownmediagroup.com/alternate-factor.html

 

[Harvey]

Oh, I have the book. I just need the time to go through that part again.

(I'm doing some work from home this evening, so have only been popping in here).

 

[Warped9]

They felt that Masters betraying her commanding officer and her oath and responsibilities would seem too much like Marl McGivers' betrayal in "Space Seed," particularly since the previous episode happened not long earlier and in the same season. I didn't get the sense they outright forbade the romance and the betrayal element, but they didn't care for either.

'Space Seed' was actually the 23rd episode produced; 'The Alternative Factor' was produced 20th.

But couldn't they have read the "Space Seed" script or outline beforehand?

 

[Harvey]

Certainly. Cushman's most interesting (but hardly conclusive) evidence is a Roddenberry memo noting the similarity between the two stories. I'm not sure if NBC had received 'Space Seed' by the time 'The Alternative Factor' was being re-written at the last minute. I'd have to check the book (and, if the information isn't there, the Stanley Robertson letters in the UCLA files).

 

[Indysolo]

The first season green shirt was also seen in Court Martial.

If anyone is interested, Kirk's first season wraparound is seen in (in production order):

The Conscience of the King

Where?

 

[Harvey]

Perusing Trek Core quickly, it doesn't seem to be in the episode.