Nerys Ghemor's DS9 Episode Review Thread

[Deranged Nasat]

Also...I have seen the theory mentioned that the Tosk are related in some manner to the Jem'Hadar, or perhaps were given to the Hunters' species as a "gift" of some sort to reward them for compliance with the Dominion. A lot of behavior does seem very Jem'Hadar, though I'd say they're much more simplistic in nature than the Jem'Hadar.

Given that--I wonder, could part of the Dominion's irritation with the Federation right from the get-go have come from the fact that the first thing the Federation did when anybody came through the wormhole was to shoot the Hunters (and maybe kill them)?

One other funny note. I bet the first intelligence report to the Dominion was VERY wrong on a technological front. I wonder if they thought that the Cardassian technology we see was actually Federation tech--and then got worried when the Feddies came onto the other side and showed their technology was more cutting-edge than that?

Those are interesting ideas. I recall that the script for "The Jem'Hadar" made a point of mentioning how similar the Jem'Hadar shroud effect was to Tosk invisibility, and between this and the Hunters planned reapperance in "Broken Link" it would appear they were indeed intended to be part of the Dominion. If so, that does make the incident in "Captive Pursuit" more significant than it might first appear. As you say, the Dominion's first reports of the Federation might have been "they interfere in Dominion member's affairs". Given Founder paranoia, that might have been enough to turn the Dominion's eye toward the wormhole region of space, pay more attention to it.

 

[Kegg]

Those are interesting ideas. I recall that the script for "The Jem'Hadar" made a point of mentioning how similar the Jem'Hadar shroud effect was to Tosk invisibility, and between this and the Hunters planned reapperance in "Broken Link" it would appear they were indeed intended to be part of the Dominion.

Yup. Remember, the Dominion was initially concieved as the anti-Federation, which is why their names sound so similar - two galactic bodies made up of numerous member races, but the Dominion is a group created by conquest and controlled through fear.

The series settled into the Founder/Vorta/Jem'Hadar routine because each race had an obvious, functional purpose the way newly added races wouldn't - IIRC, the Hunter in "Broken Link" was replaced by the Jem'Hadar who piloted the ship. Less exposition needed that way, really.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Those are interesting ideas. I recall that the script for "The Jem'Hadar" made a point of mentioning how similar the Jem'Hadar shroud effect was to Tosk invisibility, and between this and the Hunters planned reapperance in "Broken Link" it would appear they were indeed intended to be part of the Dominion. If so, that does make the incident in "Captive Pursuit" more significant than it might first appear. As you say, the Dominion's first reports of the Federation might have been "they interfere in Dominion member's affairs". Given Founder paranoia, that might have been enough to turn the Dominion's eye toward the wormhole region of space, pay more attention to it.

I can't claim credit for that idea (don't know who gets that credit, actually, just that I saw it somewhere in the forum) but it does seem reasonable to me based on what we see later of the Dominion.

In light of later episodes, you REALLY start wondering how many visitors that come through the wormhole, in those early times, are allied with or otherwise forced to serve the Dominion but might be there to spy.

Given Founder paranoia, as you describe, I imagine they had scientists poring all over every scan of DS9 that they could get--engineers, even sociologists trying to figure out what these guys are all about. And I have to think when they had their first run-in with Federation technology--and not the sabotaged Cardassian technology they would've first been seen using--that would've scared them even worse when they saw how incorrect their intelligence was. It's no wonder that given the Federation's constant refusal to ignore their warnings to leave Dominion territory alone, that they snapped. Not excusable, but you can start to see what they were thinking.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Actually, the UFP DID leave Dominion territory alone--they'd made sure to explore territory that was NOT in Dominion Space. Still, leave it to the Founders to think they're entitled to neutral space....

As for Tosk and the Jem'Hadar...I think the writers were trying to imply a connection when they had Quark and Sisko captured by the Jem'Hadar. The Vorta "fellow prisoner" has a collar on that was meant to look oddly similar to the collar the Hunters put on Tosk....

 

[Tallis Rhul]

What happened with Eris's telekinesis though? Was that supposed to be the collar?

 

[Rush Limborg]

Perhaps the Founders granted her that special enhancement, that she may serve them as a super-spy, or something....

 

[Tallis Rhul]

It did seem a bit random that none of the other ones ever had it. Imagine if Weyoun had had special throat-blasts, no-one would have messed.

 

[DevilEyes]

What happened with Eris's telekinesis though? Was that supposed to be the collar?

Probably the same thing that happened to Spock's hypnotic abilities from "Omega Glory" or the Trills' look from TNG "The Host".

 

[Kegg]

What happened with Eris's telekinesis though? Was that supposed to be the collar?

No, the collar was just useless.

Anyway, we know the Founders screw around with DNA much - telekinetic Vorta may be an idea that didn't pan out the way they hoped. Or maybe Weyoun just never really found a good opportunity to flex this skill.

Eris was originally supposed to return in "The Search" and was probably planned to be a face for the Dominion. They weren't able to get the actress, so, well, we went through a succession of interchangable Vorta before getting the bastard we all know and love.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Watched "Q-Less" a couple of nights ago...

Probably the thing that stuck out to me most about this episode is the very, very transitional aspect of it. This was very much a case of DS9 still showing its TNG roots, and yet in some ways really beginning to struggle against them. In a lot of ways, I think that Sisko's being willing to punch Q was a symbolic gesture for us in the audience as well as what it meant to Q (that Sisko wasn't going to play ball the way Picard and later Janeway would). Sisko is a character not afraid to get down and dirty.

I also wonder, even though I have never really cared for TOS, if perhaps that was intended to hearken back to the way Kirk would've handled situations. This makes sense considering we're back in DS9 to the rough-and-ready frontier attitude that we used to see in TOS. It sure reminds me of some of the confrontations Kirk had with supposedly all-powerful entities...

Now, as to the plot of the episode...very TNG-like, how it ended with the "unknown life form" sailing off into the void. But here's where I think this episode REALLY broke with its TNG ancestors: no preaching! We surely would've heard some sort of spiel from Picard about that, and while yes, you can see looks of wonder in the characters' eyes, that's all we get. And really all there needs to be.

The rest of the story boils down to character interactions. Q was quite funny here--from the way he messed with Quark's auction to the way he ruined Bashir's chances at a date (and for him to have the nerve to appear as a Bajoran WITH an earring as if he believed in something...and also a Bajoran so badly dressed, at that!), and the interactions with Vash. And was it me, or did Q actually use the word "TECHNOBABBLE" to mock the crew?

O'Brien also had some funny moments. The opening scene, and the utterly disgusted look he was shooting in Bashir's direction just about had me rolling. And frankly, with the way Bashir was acting, this was a nice little piece of validation as to just how smarmy and arrogant the doctor was being! Which definitely fits with the role of O'Brien as the Everyman... The one place where I got irritated at O'Brien, though, was his snide suggestion that Q go do something "useful, like tormenting Cardassians." Didn't O'Brien learn anything from the events of "The Wounded"? Then again, I guess that considering we hadn't really seen true Cardassian complexity since that initial TNG appearance yet, I can see why O'Brien said it.

Still, it ALMOST makes this Cardassian reviewer ( ) look forward to later in "Tribunal," where similar to Kirk mouthing off about the Klingons, his own words will be used against him...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

OK, guys--I've got two new episode reviews for you! One I liked...another that, unfortunately, was a decent idea gone really bad (and that I saw done better in a couple of Trek novels).

Let's start with the good news: "Dax."

It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was a very good episode overall, considering we're in the first season still. The moral and ethical questions surrounding Trill joining--and the identity and culpability of the joined individual--are very interesting. But I would've liked to go even further with it. As it is, though, I think we got a pretty good exploration (at least, until we got Ezri, which REALLY went in-depth with the issue) for a 40-minute episode. That said, here are some more ideas for exploration

This really raised a question, though. We hear from the rather creepy Trill minister (picked by Tandro, perhaps, because he WAS creepy, and hoped to evoke a visceral reaction in the Bajoran arbiter?) that it's a merging of personalities, not an overrunning of the original personality by the symbiont. Yet I'd like to put forth an argument here, one that I think it's a good thing Tandro never was around to witness.

I think that when "Blood Oath" happened, Curzon's personality overran Jadzia's. This is the only explanation I can think of for how the character changed so drastically from that point forward. This might well be why Trill shun reassociation--because it disrupts the equilibrium between host and symbiont, and once the symbiont is tempted to take that degree of control, this might be seen as so dangerous by the Trill humanoids that they do feel such a symbiont ought to die in that host rather than be put into other hosts where it could happen again. (The symbionts, I think, must either agree with this law according to their morals, or they acquiesce because they know there's no other way for the Trill to feel comfortable with the relationship they've worked out with them.) This may also be one of the reasons why the next host, Ezri, feared this happening to such a degree after she received the symbiont--because she may have been able to take an outside perspective and realize what had happened to Jadzia, and if this is what happened to a trained Trill, then what about her?

And here's something else I wonder about. How does the symbiont feel about assuming such different identities? What are its thoughts and feelings? I wish Tandro would've asked about how the symbiont grew up before its first joining. I assume they all become joined, given how few there are...but what is a baby symbiont taught? How do they perceive the joining process? Could there even be a few that sit it out entirely, due to health or belief reasons? If so, do they face any discrimination from their peers for choosing to "miss out" on what other symbionts probably see as a vital life experience? Now, I've seen some theories saying that the symbionts are just hard drives and not sentient on their own, but we could've had the opportunity for an answer to that right here. (Personally, I think they ARE sentient, given that we know they "speak" when not hosted.) What would a society of beings so unlike us be like? And for Jadzia to provide a translation for us through her humanoid experiences--that could've been a hell of an opportunity.

A continuity note: there seemed to be some very odd terminology here that I think had to be retconned later because it sounded so stupid. "Become a Trill"? You already ARE a Trill--you just got a symbiont, became a "joined Trill." And "Trillian" government? This isn't Hitchhiker's Guide...

Now on to a different subject--the hearing. I was SUCH a fan of the Bajoran judge. It's like a Bajoran version of Judge Judy! I LOVED watching Tandro get pwned by her every time he tried to get carried away... Now one interesting thing she mentions is the fact that she's 100 years old. Yet she doesn't look much older than 70. I found myself wondering...is it just that she looks really good for her age, and 100 means what it does for a 24th-century human? Or could it be this is evidence that Bajorans have a lifespan more comparable to Cardassians (who I think are shown to be longer-lived than humans, by "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night") than humans?

One last note. The only bad note on this episode was the private conversation between Jadzia and Sisko. I felt like that was really lacking the sort of chemistry you would expect with old friends--even old friends in a tense, almost estranged situation like this. It just felt wooden, on both actors' parts. I do think they get better later, but it did kinda yank me out of the story to see that.



Unfortunately, it was something like this--but even worse--that TOTALLY killed "The Passenger" for me. This is an episode I will be making a note not to view again on my next re-watch.

The problem for me was that the plot was interesting...and one I actually saw done pretty well in the Trek novels Demons (a TOS novel) and Possession (a TNG novel) by J.M. Dillard. But the execution was just...bleh.

And though it REALLY pains me to say this because I have a major crush on Dr. Bashir and I thought he really got better later in the show...it was aaaaaaall Siddig El Fadil's fault. (Well, I guess it's Alexander Siddig now. But it was the former name when this episode aired...plus I wish he hadn't changed his name. I liked the old one better!) Good God, but his acting as Rao Vantika was EMBARRASSING. It was barf-tastic. It was so pathetic I didn't know whether to laugh or stop watching or what.

Say what you will about the Kosst Dukat, guys. I know most of you are nowhere near as tolerant of it as I am. But this is the difference between Siddig at that time and Marc Alaimo at all times: when Marc Alaimo got a possession script, he SOLD it. Siddig...completely did NOT.

Damn shame.

Now one more future continuity note...finding out about the plight of the Kobliad species made me wonder about another Kobliad we see later--Yteppa, who helped to kidnap Kira in "Second Skin." I found myself wondering if the problem the Kobliad are having is one of the reasons that Yteppa worked for the Cardassians, especially in that particular endeavor (and I DO think Yteppa was around to see the transformed Kira): could it be that the Cardassians were holding out some sort of promise of solving the Kobliad medical problem? And could the demonstration of what they were capable of, in transforming Kira, have been something they were hoping to use to get Yteppa's hopes up and make an agent of her?

Whether they actually DID have the technology required to solve the problem or the desire to do so doesn't matter. But I think that may have been what they wanted Yteppa to think.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Now one more future continuity note...finding out about the plight of the Kobliad species made me wonder about another Kobliad we see later--Yteppa, who helped to kidnap Kira in "Second Skin." I found myself wondering if the problem the Kobliad are having is one of the reasons that Yteppa worked for the Cardassians, especially in that particular endeavor (and I DO think Yteppa was around to see the transformed Kira): could it be that the Cardassians were holding out some sort of promise of solving the Kobliad medical problem? And could the demonstration of what they were capable of, in transforming Kira, have been something they were hoping to use to get Yteppa's hopes up and make an agent of her?

Whether they actually DID have the technology required to solve the problem or the desire to do so doesn't matter. But I think that may have been what they wanted Yteppa to think.

That's a really nice idea. I'm always fascinated by little continuity details like that, and Yteppa being Kobliad was certainly worthy of speculation in light of what we know of them. At the very least, the Cardassians might have been paying Yteppa in that compound they require. One thing that was interesting about DS9, being set on the Cardassian border as it was, was that we were often given a sense of a rather complex interstellar "society", for want of a better word, with races like Lissepians, Kobheerians and Xepolites that seemingly aren't part of the Cardassian Union but engage in trade with it and are established as belonging to that area of space- distinct from TNG where there was less "static" cartography. DS9 was quite good at taking this one region of the trek-verse and fleshing it out, while also engaging with the politics of the whole, the "big picture". I do wish there could have been some more overt local politics, though- but I suppose an overt reference to "the Passenger" in the dialogue of "Second Skin" would be distracting and superfluous.

I agree that possessed-Bashir was not convincing. One thing I like about that episode though is that we get to see civilian human spacers and their ship (well, I think the dialogue said the ship was Rigellian manufacture, but the crew were human). Their civilian "uniforms" were interesting, and its nice to have trek acknowledge that being in space doesn't neccessarily mean being Starfleet. It helps make the universe more convincing and "realistic", so the episode has that going for it too, in my eyes.

As for "Dax", I agree it's a good episode for so early in the show, with interesting questions about the Trill raised and good use made of the Bajoran setting- and those local politics- with the judge. Sadly, I don't think the show ever quite made use of the Trill as they deserved. When Jadzia became Klingon Party Girl- and to be fair I always liked Jadzia and that isn't a complaint, though I certainly see what you mean about the shift in character and the Curzon-rehash- the Trill as a culture lost a lot of focus. There were episodes like "Equilibrium", "Facets" and "Rejoined", but the show never explored the Joining the way it could have. As you say, the issue of Unjoined Symbiont culture and who these odd life-forms are in their independent state could have been explored, as difficult as it might be to build a story around them! I also wish the Klaestrons had reappeared after being established as a presence in the region- and with ties to both the Federation and Cardassians. What did they do during the Dominion War, for example? Still, this episode is very good, it's just a shame they didn't follow up on all the groundwork they established.

 

[apenpaap]

Yeah, Sid's acting as possessed Bashir was hilariously bad.

 

[Myasishchev]

I kind of liked The Passenger. I mean, not great, but it was okay.

 

[Bones2]

If they were going to have Iggy Pop guest star, you'd figure it should be in that.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That's a really nice idea. I'm always fascinated by little continuity details like that, and Yteppa being Kobliad was certainly worthy of speculation in light of what we know of them. At the very least, the Cardassians might have been paying Yteppa in that compound they require. One thing that was interesting about DS9, being set on the Cardassian border as it was, was that we were often given a sense of a rather complex interstellar "society", for want of a better word, with races like Lissepians, Kobheerians and Xepolites that seemingly aren't part of the Cardassian Union but engage in trade with it and are established as belonging to that area of space- distinct from TNG where there was less "static" cartography. DS9 was quite good at taking this one region of the trek-verse and fleshing it out, while also engaging with the politics of the whole, the "big picture". I do wish there could have been some more overt local politics, though- but I suppose an overt reference to "the Passenger" in the dialogue of "Second Skin" would be distracting and superfluous.

Probably so, unless it had been plot-relevant to discover what Yteppa's motives were.

I did like getting a sense of the local area, and I personally have some theories about some of those worlds. I think that instead of adhering to a Prime Directive, that the Cardassian Union early in its reign actually turned some of those worlds into spacefaring powers, kinda like how the Soviet Union created satellite states out of its neighbors.

I agree that possessed-Bashir was not convincing. One thing I like about that episode though is that we get to see civilian human spacers and their ship (well, I think the dialogue said the ship was Rigellian manufacture, but the crew were human). Their civilian "uniforms" were interesting, and its nice to have trek acknowledge that being in space doesn't neccessarily mean being Starfleet. It helps make the universe more convincing and "realistic", so the episode has that going for it too, in my eyes.

Also a good point. I did notice, however, that they seemed to be running Federation software for their computers.

As for "Dax", I agree it's a good episode for so early in the show, with interesting questions about the Trill raised and good use made of the Bajoran setting- and those local politics- with the judge. Sadly, I don't think the show ever quite made use of the Trill as they deserved. When Jadzia became Klingon Party Girl- and to be fair I always liked Jadzia and that isn't a complaint, though I certainly see what you mean about the shift in character and the Curzon-rehash- the Trill as a culture lost a lot of focus. There were episodes like "Equilibrium", "Facets" and "Rejoined", but the show never explored the Joining the way it could have.

For me, the Curzon rehash seems like it could've even been an ethical issue as well as just (in my opinion) a poor, discontinuous writing choice.

As you say, the issue of Unjoined Symbiont culture and who these odd life-forms are in their independent state could have been explored, as difficult as it might be to build a story around them!

That would've been made of AWESOME to find that out, I think. We got a few flashes of it in the novels...I seem to recall Dax itself being described as incorrigibly curious compared to other symbionts, so those writers definitely imagined them as real beings with personalities, not hard drives. But I wish the show had explored that. When we see Dax outside of Jadzia, it's easy to think of it as a mere object, not a living, thinking being with feelings, or even as something malevolent because we don't see anything we recognize. And I think it would've been VERY interesting to force the viewers somehow to overcome their visceral reactions.

I think even something as simple as Kira following up her questions about Jadzia's individual accomplishments with asking the symbiont how IT felt about its life before joining, how it perceives the way it's changed as a result (how does it feel about the mark each host leaves on it?)...that would've been SO cool to find out. And to make people think that hey, Jadzia's a person on her own before she was joined--maybe the symbiont was and is a person, too.

I also wish the Klaestrons had reappeared after being established as a presence in the region- and with ties to both the Federation and Cardassians. What did they do during the Dominion War, for example? Still, this episode is very good, it's just a shame they didn't follow up on all the groundwork they established.

Oooh, that would've been interesting...non-aggression pact, perhaps?

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I dislike Q-Less. I really wish that they hadn't used so many recurring characters from TNG in Season 1, although I guess I can understand why they did (weirdly enough, the only one whose appearance actually worked for me was Mrs Troi). I guess any chance to see the ridiculously beautiful Jennifer Hetrick is a good thing, but this wasn't very good TV in my book.

I quite liked Dax (good old DC Fontana), but was a bit disappointed that we learnt so little about Jadzia as opposed to Dax or the Trills as a group.

I can't really remember how I feel about The Passenger, other than the fact that it has Caitlin Brown in it

 

[PSGarak]

Q-Less was one of my least favorite episodes that season. Everything about it rubbed me the wrong way. I would've preferred they just left most of the TNG characters out of DS9, although I'm not referring to O'Brien with that statement.

Dax was an episode I liked, too. On the whole, I think the handling of Trill on DS9 was a weakness of the show, however. They had so much potential to work with and just sort of futzed around.

Possessed Bashir was almost as bad as terrified Bashir in Move Along Home. Siddig El Fadil's acting in season one was embarrassingly horrible throughout most of the season, although he did manage to have some moments. Thankfully, he did improve by leaps and bounds as he gained comfort with the role.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

On the whole, I think the handling of Trill on DS9 was a weakness of the show, however. They had so much potential to work with and just sort of futzed around.

I agree. I love the Trill; in concept they're one of the great creations of Star Trek, and indeed in the novels they are often used very well. However, while there were interesting stories built around them- "Dax" being one of them- the TV show never quite knew what it was doing with them. Perhaps the concept of the Trill is simply easier to work with in novel form; as someone who reads almost all Trek books, I almost always enjoy Trill-centric stories. Communicating the complexities of the Trill on screen is probably difficult- which might be why they largely abandoned the concept of Joining after season four and focused on "Klingon Party Girl Jadzia" rather than "Trill Jadzia". Of course, Ezri restored the Joining and its associated issues to the foreground.

Hmmm, perhaps making more of an effort to tie issues of Trill culture into the ongoing arc would have helped. Given the revelations of the Great Link and how Founder consciousness integrates, or the whole Prophet possession business, the Trill culture could have been linked into Dominion or Bajoran stories and helped illuminate them, and they it in return. If the Trill had been as "essential" to the mix as Bajorans, Cardassians, Klingons and the Dominion, they might have worked better.

 

[Arix]

First of all I should say - Hi, I'm new here, I've been lurking all weekend (though I've visited occasionally in the past), and finally decided to join.

Secondly, I want to applaude Nerys Ghemor's excellent review thread. I've been poking around TheGodBen's Enterprise review thread, and Sykonee's DS9 Versus thread, and while I do enjoy both of them very much... I like yours the most. Perhaps its because you aren't rating them or comparing them, simply discussing what you liked and didn't like about each episode - and generating a lot of fascinating discussion.

Having recently rewatched the first season of DS9 (I've seen it twice before), I remember all the episodes you're talking about as well (which is lucky, as trying to remember them otherwise would be a bit of a challenge, considering how much Trek I've seen...), so its very interesting hearing other people's insights on the episodes.

I'd like to add my two cents on Jadzia. I actually liked 'Klingon party girl' (I'd never thought of her that way at all!) more than 'Spock' Jadzia. I know that the real reason her character changed during the 2nd season was because the writers were originally writing her as a wise old owl type-character, but later changed her to be more of a butt-kicking, adventuring 'party girl'. But I think it actually makes sense character development wise as well. The first few seasons, Jadzia was still adjusting from being a quiet, yet hard-working young woman to being joined to Dax - and while that adjustment might not have been as turbulent as Ezri's, it still happened. But after a few years, she learned to integrate 8 lifetimes worth of experiences, and became a lot more confident and, yes, fun-loving.

However, I have to agree with Nasat, the Trill are my favourite Star Trek race, and yet in hindsight, DS9 could have done so much more with them. Not only in exploring the symbionts, but also unjoined Trill. Looking back on it now, I wish they'd introduced Ezri as Ezri Tigan in say.. season 5 or 6 (though I am well aware that they didn't know Terry Farrel wouldn't be leaving until the end half of season 6) - imagine how interesting it would have been to see Ezri, and her interactions with the other characters, and get to know her - and then to have her joined to Dax, and completely change! It would have made for some great stories, and given us an insight into the rest of Trill culture - afterall, the majority are unjoined!

That also got me thinking that, if anything, I wish they'd explored Jadzia's character more (not Dax) - having a person from HER past, as opposed to someone from Dax's past, show up in an episode could have given her character more depth...

Not that I'm criticising, Dax is one of my favourite characters in fact! If anything I think some of you might be a bit harsh in calling her the Klingon Party Girl... but thats just my opinion.

Anyway, that was all I had to say (for the moment). I'm looking forward to the next reviews. Great job so far!