Nero's hatred of Spock makes no sense.

[Koinek]

If you don't understand Nero's motivation, you're forgetting what Romulans are; how emotionally volatile and unpredictable they can be. They were designed as polar opposites to the Vulcans. Irrational and Illogical to the core. To quote First Contact, their addition to our universe was done to provide an "unstable element to an already-volatile situation".

The Nero/Spock thing made no sense... but really, did any of Nero's actions or feelings make any sense? His world got destroyed and rather than use time travel to prevent disaster he just wants to go around and blow up Federation planets... ridiculous.

You assume he can control Time Travel. He can't. That was an accident. Also, I believe there is a line in the movie where he basically says that he is doing what he is doing so that the Federation never interferes with Romulus again; ergo saving his planet's future. You're also assuming that if he succeeded he wouldn't send a message to the empire that outlines future events.

 

[Mr. B]

...but that doesn't stop the 'galactic supernova' so their still boned right?

 

[John F]

I also would have liked a better explanation during the flashback scene. That scene didn't fully explain the dynamic between the two characters, or gave the most logical dynamic for the plot to make sense. I would rather have seen older Spock explaining something like:

"While not fully trusting me, Nero, a Romulan miner, agreed to deliver the raw ore for producing the red matter. In return, I gave him my word that I would do everything in my power to stop his home world, Romulus, from being destroyed. But the unfortunate thing happened: I was too late to save his home world, and could only save my own, Vulcan. These events must have caused Nero's distrust of Vulcans, and of me in particular, to grow into hatred, as everything he thought would happen, actually did happen."

Something like that. It would explain that Spock promised Nero something. And also states that Nero didn't trust Spock in the first place, but gave him the ore freely because of Spock's promise to him, and he set aside his distrust and put his faith in Spock. But then Romulus got destroyed and he felt betrayed, because in the end, Vulcan was saved, and he had nothing.

 

[N3wcomer]

I made the same observation during the movie... Not to mention that it seemed illogical to send an elderly ambassador, by himself, to stop a supernova. Seriously.

But the plot was full of things that made no sense. A ship in orbit travels at what, 20-30,000mph? And yet the computers couldn't lock onto falling Kurk and Sulu to beam them up, because they were freefalling (at what, 70mph?) Then, because of Scott's genius "transwarp beaming" Kirk and Scotty could beam onto a ship moving at high warp? Even Nemesis wasn't this cheesy... and yet no one seems to be reacting to all these issues.

 

[Tralah]

I think the movie would have benefited from actually showing a scene between Nero and Spock Prime, where Nero accuses Spock of having lied, and Spock has to try and defend himself and his actions and plead for the life of his world. Instead, I get the impressions the writers wanted Spock Prime's big reveal to come from saving Kirk from that ice monster, which I enjoyed in the movie, but I think it would have been better had Nero held Spock on his ship and forced him to watch Vulcan's destruction from there. Then he drops him off at Delta Vega, the nearest inhabitable world, so he can live out his life suffering like Nero has, and eventually meets up with Kirk there.

 

[BorgPhil]

it made perfect sense - Spock used Nero's ship to get off Romulus, to get him back to Vulcan, he was then unable to convince his people to save Romulus, then after it had been destroyed, he saved everyone else.

In Nero's eyes, Spock totally used him.

 

[Lumen]

Nero didn't have a lot of dimension, so there's little doubt that he won't go down in the annals of great movie villains like, say, Darth Vader or The Joker -- or even Khan. He was more of a plot device than a character.

 

[MicahBrack]

It's just that some don't seem to understand that people (or aliens) when under extreme pressure, when faced with loss and the death of entire civilizations don't just sit there unaffected and act rationally. They are blinded by pain and hatred.

They go mad. They don't think clearly. Their anger may be misdirected.

Exactly. Never try to apply logic and rationality to a villain motivated by grief.

 

[CashCrowe]

Why does blind hatred have to make sense? Isn't that basically the point of blind hatred?

 

[Peter the Younger]

I also would have liked a better explanation during the flashback scene. That scene didn't fully explain the dynamic between the two characters, or gave the most logical dynamic for the plot to make sense. I would rather have seen older Spock explaining something like:

"While not fully trusting me, Nero, a Romulan miner, agreed to deliver the raw ore for producing the red matter. In return, I gave him my word that I would do everything in my power to stop his home world, Romulus, from being destroyed. But the unfortunate thing happened: I was too late to save his home world, and could only save my own, Vulcan. These events must have caused Nero's distrust of Vulcans, and of me in particular, to grow into hatred, as everything he thought would happen, actually did happen."

Something like that. It would explain that Spock promised Nero something. And also states that Nero didn't trust Spock in the first place, but gave him the ore freely because of Spock's promise to him, and he set aside his distrust and put his faith in Spock. But then Romulus got destroyed and he felt betrayed, because in the end, Vulcan was saved, and he had nothing.

I would have liked a scene like this, yes, but I can understand why they didn't do it - the expository stuff is usually deadly boring. It was enough for me that Spock gave us the Cliff's Notes version - we can assume that there is more to it that we didn't hear.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I think the movie would have benefited from actually showing a scene between Nero and Spock Prime, where Nero accuses Spock of having lied, and Spock has to try and defend himself and his actions and plead for the life of his world. Instead, I get the impressions the writers wanted Spock Prime's big reveal to come from saving Kirk from that ice monster, which I enjoyed in the movie, but I think it would have been better had Nero held Spock on his ship and forced him to watch Vulcan's destruction from there. Then he drops him off at Delta Vega, the nearest inhabitable world, so he can live out his life suffering like Nero has, and eventually meets up with Kirk there.

Agreed. Actually, the way to do it while still keeping the reveal would be, during Spock's "exposition mind meld", to just have the scene with Nero and Spock Prime right there. They definitely needed some interaction though.

 

[Tikkun]

It would have been a 5 minute movie if Nero just zoomed over to the "City on the Edge of Forever" planet and went back and warned Romulus.

Harlan Ellison would have demanded $5 out of the $10 paramount would have made from that movie

Which is about what it would have made

 

[hammerhead]

I think Nero is another Shinzon as in Nemesis, Shinzon's desire to blow up Earth made no sense. To me, they might as well be the same character, guys who have lost their marbles due to blind rage.

 

[John F]

As a follow up to my response, I do think the premise is solid, but the execution just isn't that perfect. The film would have benefited from being a couple of minutes longer. But it would also slow down the movie a bit. So I understand the path they have chosen.

To all that say they don't understand Nero's motivation, keep in mind that Romulans distrust the Federation and especially Vulcans. Now Nero freely gave them the ore for producing the red matter and to stop the super nova from reaching Romulus. Nero probably insisted in the first place that the Vulcans simply give him the technology to do it themselves. But Spock couldn't do that, and promised him instead that if he handed over the ore, then he would stop the nova from reaching Romulus. Then Romulus is destroyed, and he finds out Vulcan is going to be saved. Nero now thinks Spock and the Vulcans, and the whole Federation has misled him, and that destroying Romulus, and the Romulan Empire, was their plan the whole time. Spock betrayed him! It's just Romulan rage swelling inside him from that time on.

Again, the idea works for me, but the execution is not perfect. And the scene as I have laid out a few post before would have worked a tad better. Remember though, the writer's strike prevented them from tweaking the script during the shoot. So even that flashback scene couldn't be adjusted.

All said, I really enjoyed the movie.

 

[LeandroTLZ]

Of all people why travel through time (and waste 25 years of his life)in an attempt to kill the single person in the universe that tried to help him?

The Red Matter that Nero needed to destroy Vulcan / the Hobus star (thus saving Romulus) was on the Jellyfish (Spock's ship.) Too bad he never got around to destroying the Hobus star, so Romulus is likely still doomed in this new timeline.

 

[VOODOOXI]

Why does blind hatred have to make sense? Isn't that basically the point of blind hatred?

Again, why would he hate Spock who was the only person trying to help him?

As far was blind rage goes. Nero had 25 years to cool off. It makes no sense.

 

[Australis]

All the above goes back to what I and a few others have said that the movie needed an extra 30 min to fill all this out clearly.

Personally, I really like the film, rate it high, but Nero's part was woefully cut down. Hopefully there'll be an extended version on vid. With lots of standing round, like the Onion said.

 

[Trekker4747]

This movie could have benefitted from explaining Nero's backstory and clarifying things somewhat. And don't say the Countdown comics explain it, they don't. In fact, Countdown makes Nero's motivations make even less sense.

Nor should one have to read outside material to understand a movie.

 

[Ptrope]

If you don't understand Nero's motivation, you're forgetting what Romulans are; how emotionally volatile and unpredictable they can be. They were designed as polar opposites to the Vulcans. Irrational and Illogical to the core. To quote First Contact, their addition to our universe was done to provide an "unstable element to an already-volatile situation".

Funny, those aren't the Romulans I remember. Those were neither unpredictable nor emotionally volatile (I reject the ENT Romulans, who were, frankly, cartoons, for the most part, in keeping with the rest of the series). One thing they established early on was that the Romulans were like chess masters - they were coldly rational, whatever their emotional investment in a situation, playing their enemies or supposed enemies in a grand game with one objective: their own victory. I don't know where the above interpretation of Romulans came from. Yes, they were passionate, but they weren't blinded by their passion.

You assume he can control Time Travel. He can't. That was an accident. Also, I believe there is a line in the movie where he basically says that he is doing what he is doing so that the Federation never interferes with Romulus again; ergo saving his planet's future. You're also assuming that if he succeeded he wouldn't send a message to the empire that outlines future events.

He doesn't need to control time travel! He's in the past, period; he knows the physics of the future, whatever the politics may be, and the physics says that Hobus will explode. He clearly knows when and where the ship containing both Spock and the red matter will enter the universe, delivering to him all he needs to prevent the supernova or at least its effects on Romulus - attacking the Federation, Vulcan or the 7-11 is not going to save his people, nor does he need to involve them at all, since he doesn't need their technology nor their approval to do the deed; he already has the means. He has the opportunity - in fact, he's got a 100+ year head start. He also has a highly-motivated accomplice in Spock -Spock knows the truth of the situation, and not only does he want to save Romulus, he wants to restore Romulus's place in the Vulcan brotherhood.

Argue all you want about Nero's madness - his mental state wasn't consistent with his actions in the film, and even less so with the back story provided in Countdown, where it's made clear that he knew exactly what was going on and contradicted the Romulan government in helping Spock try to save his people. He should've been laying waste to the Romulan high command in this time frame, since they were the ones who were most responsible for trhe death of their own race.

Sorry, but I just don't buy the "he was completely insane" excuse - he was just poorly written so they could show lots of cool battles and effects; Nero was Anakin Skywalker. The annoying thing is that had he been written as a strong character, there could still have been great battles and effects, along with a story much more consistent with the ideals of Star Trek that JJ&Crew have claimed they were trying to honor and revitalize.

And after all that, it was still probably one of the strongest experiences of any Trek film. I just think it missed a really, really big boat at the same time.

 

[Shatmandu]

If he insisted on revenge why not kill the people who refused to listen to Spock?

1. Spock gained Nero's confidence.
2. Spock failed.
3. Nero felt betrayed by Spock. He felt Spock set him up.
4. The time travel was an accident.

Joe, numbered