Not a fan of the film here... but Star Trek: Countdown makes his motivations a easier to swallow.
Nemesis
- Thread starter heavylids
- Start date
Not a fan of the film here... but Star Trek: Countdown makes his motivations a easier to swallow.
The stupid thing about Countdown was that a Starfleet Captain and two Federation Ambassadors had to beg the Vulcan Science Council for the technology, and they refused it. The destruction of Romulus and the destabilisation of an entire empire neighboring the Federation is not up to the Vulcans alone to decide, they are just ONE of 150+ members in the Federation. And when the Federation represented by both Starfleet and Ambassadors says "jump"...
If it's a Vulcan invention... I'm not sure that the Federation has the ability to just say 'jump'. Though I do have a theory that Vulcan was no longer a member of the Federation at this point.
I'm not sure how most people feel about this, but to me if it's non canon, it means nothing. The movie either stands on it's own, or it's failed to communicate it's intent. It's all well and good if a book/comic wants to fill in the blanks for those people who like that sort of thing, but to me it doesn't excuse a weak premise.
I tend to give the writers' the benefit of the doubt here. I figure Vulcan negligence was probably part of an earlier draft and was excised somewhere along the way.
Countdown has a number of problems, not counting random fanwanks involving cameos by certain seemingly unrelated characters.
For starters, the comic suggests that Nero had time to ponder his actions after the loss of Romulus, to contact various Romulans, to prepare for the future (or in this case, the past) in various ways. None of that can be true, because Nero intercepted Spock when our Vulcan hero was returning from his failed rescue mission. Spock was returning in a very fast ship - so Nero would only have a few hours to react to begin with. Moreover, the intercept happened right next to the black hole created by Spock, meaning probably mere minutes or even seconds after the creation of said hole. Absolutely no time for any of the post-destruction, pre-timetravel events of the comic.
...Unless we postulate a second black hole created by Spock at some later date, perhaps because Spock thought this would be a good way to shake off Nero. And that still ignores the fact that Spock's journey between Vulcan and Romulus ought to be over very quickly in both directions, given how his ship was supposed to be fast for the 24th century and the ships we saw in the 23rd century were already going between the RNZ and Vulcan in mere hours.
ST:NEM is somewhat surprisingly free of blatant travel time issues, at least if we allow it to reinforce the as such acceptable idea that Romulus is not located particularly far away from Earth and Vulcan...
Timo Saloniemi
For starters, the comic suggests that Nero had time to ponder his actions after the loss of Romulus, to contact various Romulans, to prepare for the future (or in this case, the past) in various ways. None of that can be true, because Nero intercepted Spock when our Vulcan hero was returning from his failed rescue mission. Spock was returning in a very fast ship - so Nero would only have a few hours to react to begin with. Moreover, the intercept happened right next to the black hole created by Spock, meaning probably mere minutes or even seconds after the creation of said hole. Absolutely no time for any of the post-destruction, pre-timetravel events of the comic.
...Unless we postulate a second black hole created by Spock at some later date, perhaps because Spock thought this would be a good way to shake off Nero. And that still ignores the fact that Spock's journey between Vulcan and Romulus ought to be over very quickly in both directions, given how his ship was supposed to be fast for the 24th century and the ships we saw in the 23rd century were already going between the RNZ and Vulcan in mere hours.
ST:NEM is somewhat surprisingly free of blatant travel time issues, at least if we allow it to reinforce the as such acceptable idea that Romulus is not located particularly far away from Earth and Vulcan...
Timo Saloniemi
I think that's talking semantics. Really, his goal was to "save" his planet in the future, his motivation was the batshit insane revenge frenzy he went into after losing everyone he cared about.
So, whatever, he had one goal. One. It might have been stupid and irrational (even nonsensical), but it was always the same.
That's my point.
Though he didn't do anything in that movie to achieve the goal. How about using Red Matter on that star going nova, instead of wasting it?
I think it was on his checklist after getting revenge on Spock. I just hope a shower and some laundry were on the list as well.
I don't think it's semantics, so much as me just not thinking that nonsensical irrational revenge counts as legitimate motivation to do something unrelated to the problem. It would not have taken much more exposition to suggest that perhaps his motive for revenge on Vulcan and the Federation was because they were unwilling to help save Romulus in the future, but instead his only motivation seems to be to punish the one person who actually is helping with the problem. It really wouldn't have taken much to fill in those blanks, but instead we get so little that I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
None of what he does in the past stops the fact that in the future his planet is going to be destroyed. In fact, since he travelled back in time to before Romulus was destroyed, it's still there, and he has the information to stop it from ever happening. But instead he seems to sit there twiddling his thumbs for 25 years waiting for Spock to arrive, and yet still has the mindless impulsive rage of something that just happened. Nothing about Nero makes sense.
Does he though? I can go back and tell people of the 1880's of nuclear weapons but I doubt it would put them any closer to actually being able to construct one.
He'd be of little use unless he had technical information on the development of Red Matter.
1. He knows the exact time it will happen. At the very least, they can evacuate, or knowing that the technology will exist in the future anyway, just let them know the time it will happen so they don't miss their window of opportunity, or they could focus their scientific efforts to creating the red matter, now having a rough idea of what needs to be achieved.
2. After he captures Spock's ship, he does have the means to fix it. But instead he goes about destroying planets, because that totally helps.
No, but that's what Nero thinks. He says it in the film! Reality is irrelevant to his motivations, he believes Spock betrayed his people and allowed Romulus and his family to be destroyed on purpose. Once he's destroyed Vulcan and made Spock suffer, he's going to destroy the Federation so in this timeline, Romulus can survive in peace, unthreatened by the humans and Vulcans.
There's no need to bring Countdown into it, it's all perfectly clear. He's an traumatised mentalist who has spent a quarter of a century stewing in his own rage and bitterness, waiting for Spock to he can have his revenge. It's like questioning the motivation of Norman Bates.
I'm not defending Nero. He was a retard and a complete and utter douchebag. His motivation was stupid and his revenge badly carried out.
But he had one motivation. That's what I said.
Nero was totally two-dimensional and really, really stupid. Shinzon had multiple personality disorder.
No defending Nero here.
But he had one motivation. That's what I said.
Nero was totally two-dimensional and really, really stupid. Shinzon had multiple personality disorder.
No defending Nero here.
I do find it funny that the only planet he destroys is the only one to develop the technology that can save his world.
I see it as Nero feeling that Spock didn't deliver on bringing help to the Romulans with the supernova, condemning his world to destruction. In short, he wants Spock to feel the loss he did. That's a lot easier to understand than Shinzon attacking Earth instead of Romulus, the planet of his overseers in some convoluted attempt to be better, or more notorious than Picard.
The point about Shinzon not "going after the Romulans" is brought up over and over, but the film starts off with him attacking the Romulan Senate. Doesn't that count?
Also, he was resentful toward Picard because by nature of Shinzon being his clone, he felt that he was in his shadow, lacked a strong identity of his own, etc.
I don't think he's the most strongly motivated, but like I said, folks on this board harp on this practically every time NEM is brought up.
Nero's motivations are so bad as to be laughable(whether Spock failed or not, he was the main guy who was volunteering to try! You don't go after the neighbor who does his best to help put out your housefire, but fails.)
Similar threads
