Nemesis with a diffrent villan?

[Praetor]

I've always thought 'Nemesis' would have worked better depicting a military coup and subsequent civil war within the Romulan Empire and having Picard have to work with a Romulan (such as Tomalak) who was his counterpart to prevent all-out interstellar war - therein lying the 'Nemesis' aspect.

 

[EnsignRicky]

They shoulda just did it man. They shoulda just sat down with Mike Myers and found a way to bring in Doctor Evil. That or they could have hired Ian McKellen. He actually would have made a very good, if slightly older Picard clone. I'd pretty much go with just about anyone other than the Mr pearly whites they did settle on.

 

[Myasishchev]

I've always thought 'Nemesis' would have worked better depicting a military coup and subsequent civil war within the Romulan Empire and having Picard have to work with a Romulan (such as Tomalak) who was his counterpart to prevent all-out interstellar war - therein lying the 'Nemesis' aspect.

Shinzon could even still be the villain for this. Even if his conception is a little iffy, his rage would be directed at an understandable target, and we'd have a good reason for him and Picard to be at odds (since one isn't "cool" with genocide).

 

[hellsgate]

Hmmmm....interesting. Tomolak versus Picard.

 

[Praetor]

I've always thought 'Nemesis' would have worked better depicting a military coup and subsequent civil war within the Romulan Empire and having Picard have to work with a Romulan (such as Tomalak) who was his counterpart to prevent all-out interstellar war - therein lying the 'Nemesis' aspect.

Shinzon could even still be the villain for this. Even if his conception is a little iffy, his rage would be directed at an understandable target, and we'd have a good reason for him and Picard to be at odds (since one isn't "cool" with genocide).

By George, you're right!

Would it have really killed anyone to have Shinzon just be a Reman?

 

[Myasishchev]

Not I.

 

[M-Red]

Good thread...and thought about this before. I think sort of along the same line as others have said. They could have kept many of the same core ideas, but just made it much, much more watchable and credible.


The character of Shinzon was a good idea, but he should have just been Romulan -- scrap the entire Reman thing. And don't make him a clone of Picard...just make him an intellectual equal to Picard.


Those two choices didn't really contribute to anything positive for NEM. Neither was believable and the problems just flowed from there. Like the Klingons in TOS, the Romulans were the primary enemy in TNG...they were the main poltical/military rival of the Feds from TNG's very beginning. It would have made perfect sense for them to connect the events from "The Neutral Zone" to a final movie involving a Romulan conflict. As it was, the Reman (and clone) story-lines were too convoluted and far-fetched (even by Trek standards)...it wasn't believable and it just wasn't necessary.


I always thought it would have been cool to see a Romulan Julius Caesar....a calculating, ambitious, brilliant political leader (praetor) that became so popular the Senate and the people granted him dictatorial powers over the government and military. "Shinzon" could have been his title (ala Caesar, Kaiser, etc.) but not his actual name. And he wouldn't have to be pure evil -- just a power-driven guy who wants to advance the future of the Romulan Empire...just like Picard and everyone in Starfleet wants to advance the future of the Federation.


No need to destroy Earth (again)...just a really dynamic, powerful, and persuasive villain who instigates a conflict over something important (resources, imperial expansion, etc) and represents a long term threat to the Federation's interests.


It would have been easy too --- just set it after FC and the Dominion War when the all the great powers are either obliterated (Cardassians), or severely weakened (Klingons, Feds).


In fact, it would have been great (imho) if they would have just never done INS and extended a seriously re-tooled NEM storyline into a 2 movies....in which Movie IX was an Empire Strikes Back sort of film (the villain wins and leaves us wanting more) and Movie X be the final victorious mission of the TNG crew, in which they defeated a great villain and secured the Fed's future for a long time.


I was dissapointed in NEM (and INS) b/c I enjoyed TNG so much. They deserved a more epic and enduring swan song. But...it is what it is...

 

[DarKush]

Great ideas Praetor and M-Red.

I like the idea of Tomalak as the main villain, but to be honest I think TNG did a poor job really setting up a Romulan villain that could match up to Picard and be his nemesis. Tomalak had potential, but I guess because of B5, Katsulas wasn't available to establish him more on the show. Then again, if they had brought Kang or Kor back in the TOS movies I probably could've bought that. Same with the Duras Sisters in GEN, I guess, but still I never got to see enough of Tomalak for my taste.

Sela was poorly conceived and though I thought Denise Crosby's acting was okay, her character wasn't a credible threat, and she had too many failures under her belt. After Sela and Tomalak, who was left? Tebok, Taris or Toreth? Neral? Koval from DS9? I don't think any of them got enough screentime to really warrant bringing them back as opposed to making a new character.

I didn't mind the idea of Shinzon being a clone but I think that Stewart should have played him. However, removing the clone angle would not force them to get into the convoluted explanations regarding Shinzon's motivations or perhaps the B-4 stuff.