Nemesis question
- Thread starter Captain59
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Yes, I believe that was under consideration for a time. Personally, I really would have liked to see PS do it - could have been great.
It was talked about and I think it would have made the movie much better.
It would have made the clone look like Picard, anyway. That other guy didn't look like Picard at all.
It's not like the tech wasn't in place to make this idea happen...
It's not like the tech wasn't in place to make this idea happen...
Yeah, they did. I can't find a source offhand, but I think the reasons they gave for not doing so was they'd already doubled Stewart on the show a few times. That, and Stewart may have asked for an actor to work with. It would have been far more awesome for Shinzon to have been a (if not the) Mirror Picard, plucked from the space between spaces, but oh well; t'was not to be.
I wish they had gone with Stewart if they insisted on keeping that stupid dramatic device. I really admire Hardy as actor and in context he did a decent job (watch his screen test if you get a chance; he is good), but whenever I watch the film it just 'takes' me out of the narrative when the clone thing comes up. I think I'd have even preferred Stewart's real son (who I think is in Inner Light?) as at least there's a vague resemblance...
I wonder if they were making film now and cast McAvoy instead: would it work better? Not sure why, but there's
something about McAvoy that makes me think more Stewart than Hardy...
I wonder if they were making film now and cast McAvoy instead: would it work better? Not sure why, but there's
something about McAvoy that makes me think more Stewart than Hardy...
It really didn't matter to me,....Of course it would have been "FAN"tastical if Patrick played both parts. But the movie on that aspect sat fine with me, along with the scientifical reason of 300+ years of cloning to explain it. It is much easier to an actor to play off another rather than looking at a "nobody" stad-in. Espiacially in a motion picture.
I think they should have had the character age into stewart for the final act of the play. Giving the audience a clear path to follow the character, and honestly, something to look forward to. It would have helped to show that Shinzon's life was drawing to a close, another theme that Picard struggled with throughout the TNG movie series.
It also would have made a kick-ass poster! Don't sell that value short, a lot of people go to see a film based on the poster and ads.
It also would have made a kick-ass poster! Don't sell that value short, a lot of people go to see a film based on the poster and ads.
as previous poster mentioned, it may have drawn some attention through the gimmick, but really the issues with the movie had nothing to do with how Shinzon looked or the performance of Tom Hardy.
They might have spent more time on Shinzon's MOTIVES rather than worrying about things like retconning Picard to be bald as a cadet to make the "looks" fit.
They might have spent more time on Shinzon's MOTIVES rather than worrying about things like retconning Picard to be bald as a cadet to make the "looks" fit.
I don't think this is the problem with Nemesis. It really is in not knowing enough about Shinzon. Never knowing what shaped him makes him a standard bad-guy who's racist towards Romulans, a mind rapist, and very self-destructive. The "lifetime of violence" wasn't explored.
There's so much potential there because my exposure to violence when I was younger made me invite more of it. The more I could take the bigger the man I was (when I was a small boy trying to become a man). I think Shinzon of Remus may have had a similar reaction but I've had to simply fill in the gaps of what he is saying. And in the end, the way he is written, he is just trying to share his pain with the rest of the world. He shouldn't be aware that is what he is trying to do. He feels shackled by his up-bringing, but that is something that comes much too late in this film. I think the scene in the ready room should've come face-to-face, about the time that Picard is kidnapped.
I think not making it Picard's son was another mistake, one that Rick Berman and Patrick Stewart apparently balked at because when would Picard have a one-night stand and forget all about the female? I think it gives Shinzon a reason to hate Picard.
Still, then the problem becomes: why does he want to kidnap Picard? Is it to satiate some desire to see his father? To share his pain with him? This could be a very human movie. Instead, it is treated like science fiction.
That's ridiculous for them to think that. We only see a sliver of Picard's life on TNG. Of course he could have had a one night stand. Or...look at Kirk and Carol Marcus. Kirk had a grown son he didn't know, and this was with a woman he knew...but we didn't know about it. Just because a character doesn't mention someone on screen, doesn't mean that person doesn't exist. Picard could even have known about a son like Kirk did and just never mention it. Since when we the audience have to know everything about a character for it to be valid?
However, the very fact I mentioned Kirk and David may be the reason they didn't do that...because it would have been seen as too much to that storyline. Then again, Nemesis was trying to be TNG's Kahn story, so why not just keep going with that?
I think it needed a bit more then just PS playing the role to have saved that movie - a lot more was needed
That Picard-has-a-son storyline had already been done in "Bloodlines" with Jason Vigo. It featured the return of Daimon Bok ("The Battle").
The movie shows very clearly that Shinzon needs a transfusion from Picard to prevent the onset of early aging that has beset him.
ST movies aren't made for ST fans. The last thing the film needed was a callback to an obscure character from the TV series - one with a more complicated backstory than glossing over Data's other brother, Lore. Let alone Sela being played by an actress many people aren't terribly impressed by. Many fans felt that Sela was the weakest link in "Unification".
