It has a lot of problems that Rick Berman should've caught: the insipid dune buggy scene, a bald, whiny, dress-wearing, effeminate, frustrated virgin who's supposed to be an evil version of Captain Picard...imo the biggest screw-up of a villain ever in a ST movie... a stupid version of Data...a blatant re-use of TWOK as a template, a slow act I. But it also had some great action and dialogue. I loved the scene with Picard and Data escaping from the Scimitar and the space battle at the end is 2nd only to the classic Mutara Battle fight in Khan.
LOL this whole thing made me laugh, particularly the highlighted parts, since this is exactly what I got from the movie.
After watching these two movies in consecutive nights it boggles my mind that ANYONE would think STV could come within light years of STNEM. Every phase of movie making was better. I'm forced to conclude that anyone who thought STV was better are old TOS fans brainwashed into thinking anything with Shatner in it is better
I think for me the biggest reason is that STV is a much more light hearted movie than Nemesis was. STV starts off with the big 3 spending their shore leave
together realising that they ARE their own family. I get teary eyed everytime I see those scenes, they are so amazing. Even Spock who has battled against his humanity realizes that these 2 humans are like his brothers. If THAT'S not Star Trek, I don't know what it. To add to that, the concept of finding God is something that hits us all right in the heart, whether we are atheists or believe in some form of deity. The need to know if there is a God or not is strongly entrenched in our souls. The movie plays up to that greatly. Lawrence Luckinbill does an amazing job with what he had. I believed him when he said he genuinely wanted to find God and help people with their pain. So strong was his belief in helping others, that he risked stealing a starship to do it.
Sadly the production values hurt the movie quite a bit, and some of the shoehorned humor was not needed and felt so out of place (like the Scotty thing where he bangs like head on the bulkhead, and the Uhura fandance *cringe*).
Nemesis on the other hand was depressing all the way through. The whole movie was dark, the Remans were horrible aliens. Shinzon was a whiny little bitch. All the TNG characters looked tired out, ESPECIALLY Data. I don't understand what it was, was it the fact that they hated working with the Director? or what?
The whole movie is depressingville, and it just gets worse and worse until the end. Data dies, the crew is disbanded, and we get one scene of stupid Data whisling like that's supposed to give us "hope" that normal Data will be back.
Production wise Nemesis was better, but storytelling wise, STV is wayyyyyy more forgivable than Nem. Wanna buy my Nemesis DVD? lol
As a huge fan of STNG and defender of what it is "about", STNG NEM was wholly in line with STNG on tv. Picard tried to believe Shinzon's peace overture, and even tried to convince him twice to convert to the younger Picard's point view (the Picard who became a mature Starfleet officer and explorer). He appealed to his wonder, which Picard knew he shared, but to no effect.
Which had no effect on me because not for a second did I believe Shinzon was Picard. Not even for 1 second.
In the end, the Romulan's lust for power evolved into realization of genocide, and they turned against Shinzon.
And we get nothing that tells us of this. Romulans just showed up at the end of the movie "changing their minds"
Even the space battle, which STNG had few of, demonstrated two enemies could cooperate together. One of my favorite parts of the movie was the very end, when Donatra suggested peace might be the way for the Romulans and Federation. That is VERY STNG in my opinion, and far less trite than Shatner's "god is in all of us" BS at the end of STV.
While I thought the "God is in the human heart" was pretty stupid myself, I didn't think Nemesis did anything to build up to the "we can be good friends" bs with the Romulans that we got at the end. If the movie had been about Romulans, maybe it would have worked, but the movie was not about Romulans, it was about Shinzon and his superweapon.
You want "blasphemous"? How about Spock having an emotional younger brother
Not sure how this is blasphemous. We've seen several times that Vulcans can be passionate. And anyway, no one other than Leonard Nemoy has been able to imitate a Vulcan character so perfectly. Mark Lenard came close, all others just seem to be pissed off all the time. I'm glad we got a Vulcan who could laugh and generally be emotive.
or Uhura turning into a stripper
Agree with this. That was the most horrid and cringe inducing scene in the movie.
or three of the most respected fictional characters in TV history getting drunk at a campfire
Getting drunk? Aren't you being a little exaggerative here? They had a little bit of alcohol in their chili, that was it.
or SPock letting his captain be captured instead of shooting his brother
McCoy said it perfectly: "He can no more shoot his brother than he could shoot you". Spock took the logical way out actually. Shooting his brother would have been a permanent decision. Letting themselves be captured was a temporary decision that gave them another chance. Kirk got pissed, but quickly forgot the whole thing realizing what he was asking of Spock was too much.
or Sulu and Chekov getting lost
This never bothered me to be honest. We see Checkov and Sulu be good buddies, and the whole snowstorm scene was played for jokes really, not at the expense of the characters IMO though.
Scotty banging his head on a beam....need I go on??
Yeah that was pretty bad.
And where as Frontier didn't kill the TOS movies, they got one more, Nemesis pretty got Berman put into the shit house, Enterprise got it tipped over...
LMAO!!! More liked flipped upside down.
I can actually watch TREK V. I like the scene where Sybok explores the big three's secret pains of their lives. I will never watch Nemesis again for the rest of my life...
I feel the same way.
Interview with Nemesis production illustrator, David Negron, Jr....
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/ds9_10.php
Ahh, so this is the guy responsible for giving us that ridiculously overpowered Shimitar. He must have been watching an Andromeda marathon when he came up with that design. And the movie needed a bigger budget to be more successful. Please excuse me while I bust my gut laughing at such insanity lol.
I can't disagree with that. I do think that if someone had taken the time to tighten the script up, and someone who actually knew the characters (such as Frakes) had been given the helm, this could have been everything it promised. I don't wish to lay the blame at any one person, because that is both unfair and untrue, but I do think Baird deserves to shoulder a lot of the blame. That said, I do believe he did some good work on the action sequences, it's the character moments that suffered at his hand.
I have to agree. Everyone pitched in to fuck up this movie. From Logan's cheesy script, to Brent Spiner's meddling in the story, to Stuart Baird's lack of directing skills, to the cast themselves looking just sick and tired of the whole thing. Death by 1000 cuts.
I never noticed the effects being bad, then again I also enjoyed TOS. And I like the finding God story, which was just a finding yourself story in disguise.
That's exactly it!! thank you. You said it in a couple of words what I tried to explain in a couple of paragraphs.
Where I think Shinzon largely fails, is in his motivation. He should have been setting out to destroy Romulus, ultimately leaving Picard with the choice of siding with him, and bringing down one of the Federation's foes, or siding with the Romulans against him.
Wow that would have been a bitchin' storyline.
Agreed 100%. NEM didn't make me feel anything. Not even hatred. It failed to inspire anything above apathy in me. Data's death was just stupid and pointless. I mean, the series of painfully obvious contrivances leading up to it just made it feel completely artificial.
Yup
Ummmm..yeah..I was wondering if Berman had an alias on this site...
Rob
LMAO!!!!!!
* Shinzon's hatred - for his back story, there would be no more compelling foe for him to want to eradicate than the Romulan empire. And I'd expect he'd crave to seek out Picard as a father, not as a nemesis.
THAT would have been an awesome plot point.
