Nemesis has some great Patrick Stewart moments

[Khan 2.0]

ok everyone knows the films not great at all but I always liked Stewart in it. And certain scenes especially where he was particularly good:

-Stewart and Hardy meeting on Romulus - "Nothing would make me more proud than to take your hand in friendship - in time... when that trust has been earned."

-Stewart and Hardy in the ready room - "Oh yes, I know you. There was a time you looked at the stars and dreamed of what might be."

-absent friends scene

 

[fonzob1]

I thoroughly enjoyed Nemesis. It had some great battle scenes and I found the story to be interesting.

 

[Dukhat]

"Nemesis has some great Patrick Stewart moments"

You're right, it does. Remember that jeep scene? That was Patrick Stewart playing Patrick Stewart.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Yeah maybe not that

 

[Lance]

"Nemesis has some great Patrick Stewart moments"

You're right, it does. Remember that jeep scene? That was Patrick Stewart playing Patrick Stewart.

Yep, that's it. The movie has some great "Patrick Stewart" moments, but it hasn't got many great Captain Picard moments.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I suppose like Shatner playing Shatner in V and GEN, it could be argued Stewart played Stewart in IX and X (but not FC where he played Rambo )

 

[martok2112]

Or Stewart playing Bruce Willis in Starship Mine, right?

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?
Certainly not with the writers? Certainly not with Stewart himself.

The writers and the actors are the ones who get to shape who characters are....no on else.
So then it gets determined that if the characters do not act according to what the fans think, then it's just the actor being himself?

(Note: this is not meant to be an anti-fan rant.... I'm trying to put that behind me. But, the questions still stand. ... and the answer remains: Actors and writers determine who the characters are...no one else. )

 

[Dukhat]

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?

Because Jean-Luc Picard as envisioned in TNG would simply never have an interest in recklessly driving some offroad jeep. The man is a gentleman explorer, not Mario Andretti. It's just not in his nature. It's one thing to say that he had some hobby that we were completely unaware of, but they're not even supposed to be using cars in the 24th century! That's like me having a burning urge to recklessly fly a replica of the Wright brothers' airplane.

 

[wildsulu]

Mostly it's just a dumb action scene because it's a movie.

But I like it when characters show an unexpected side.

 

[martok2112]

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?

Because Jean-Luc Picard as envisioned in TNG would simply never have an interest in recklessly driving some offroad jeep. The man is a gentleman explorer, nwhatot Mario Andretti. It's just not in his nature. It's one thing to say that he had some hobby that we were completely unaware of, but they're not even supposed to be using cars in the 24th century! That's like me having a burning urge to recklessly fly a replica of the Wright brothers' airplane.

Some folk do have such a desire....be they fictional or real. Do you think that Riker or LaForge would pass up on a chance to fly in the Phoenix, which is as archaic by 24th (or even 22nd) century standards as the Wright brothers plane is today? :-)

Also, even though the vehicle that represented the Argo may have been a conbustion engine, wheeled vehicle, the in story tech for the Argo could likely be different.

As for Picard, he might be a "gentleman explorer", but he is also a human being....and even the most disciplined of humans are able to have a little fun when the opportunity allows. But, again, only the writers and the actors really know what the characters are capable of. if they remain slavish to only what was initially envisioned, then to me the character stays one-dimensional. Personal opinion only. :-)

 

[Lance]

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?
Certainly not with the writers? Certainly not with Stewart himself.

So then it gets determined that if the characters do not act according to what the fans think, then it's just the actor being himself?

I think the reason the fans get cynical about the Argo scene is because Patrick Stewart loves off-road racing in real life, so the scene comes across (in a bad way) like it's only there so the actor will sign up for the movie. Same reason the horseback scenes were put in Generations for Shatner. The Argo sequence is a distinct moment where the character has been put aside in favor of fluffing up the ego of the actor, hence the scene comes across more like Stewart is playing himself, and less like he's playing Captain Picard.

 

[martok2112]

Ok....given that info, Lance, I can see where folk would get that idea, and it's not unjustified, I suppose.

And I guess it can be supposed that Stewart only gave "lip service" to believing in the film in interviews I saw with him. I mean, money (and getting one's way) does talk.

In my eyes (and again, it is personal opinion only), Picard was enjoying a rare moment to cut loose....even if it was on mission. However, it was Data who kinda snapped Picard back to the needs of the matter. Picard's jaunt was brief, all of about a minute, and then he was back to business.

Again, that little bit of info gave me a bit more appreciation for how some fans might have felt the way they felt.

 

[Orphalesion]

"Nemesis has some great Patrick Stewart moments"

You're right, it does. Remember that jeep scene? That was Patrick Stewart playing Patrick Stewart.

Well the actors playing themselves in the TNG movies is nothing new, just watch First Contact (at the very least) to see Johnathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis playing.... Johnathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis! Riker? Troi? Why would you want to see them in a TNG movie when you can watch these two having wacky hijinks with a smelly hobo they named Zefram Cochrane!

 

[eyeresist]

As someone who was not a great TNG fan, I found the Picard stuff in NEM interesting, as it brought up stuff about his youthful past I didn't know, and made it relevant to the present story. And I liked that the central drama of the story was Picard earnestly trying to persuade his younger self to turn from the dark side, a temptation he himself had experienced in his own way.

Picard's youthful recklessness is in a way a justification for the dune buggy scene, showing how he still has that side to him, but is mature enough that he doesn't let it control him, just lets it out for fun on occasion.

I also really like the way he purrs his line: "He thinks he knows exactly what I'm going to do."

 

[martok2112]

As someone who was not a great TNG fan, I found the Picard stuff in NEM interesting, as it brought up stuff about his youthful past I didn't know, and made it relevant to the present story. And I liked that the central drama of the story was Picard earnestly trying to persuade his younger self to turn from the dark side, a temptation he himself had experienced in his own way.

Picard's youthful recklessness is in a way a justification for the dune buggy scene, showing how he still has that side to him, but is mature enough that he doesn't let it control him, just lets it out for fun on occasion.

I also really like the way he purrs his line: "He thinks he knows exactly what I'm going to do."

+1

 

[Mage]

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?

Because Jean-Luc Picard as envisioned in TNG would simply never have an interest in recklessly driving some offroad jeep. The man is a gentleman explorer, not Mario Andretti. It's just not in his nature. It's one thing to say that he had some hobby that we were completely unaware of, but they're not even supposed to be using cars in the 24th century! That's like me having a burning urge to recklessly fly a replica of the Wright brothers' airplane.

I keep forgetting that in real life, people never change over a period of 15 years..... How incredibly stupid of me.....

As for the jeep..... DS9 already showed a throwback to old tech, with the TR-116 rifle. A weapon that can be used in certain situations where modern tech doesn't work. Same thing might be applicable here. The ion-storm intervers with the transporters, for all we know it could compromise any other tech they might have.

 

[martok2112]

I must respectfully ask: Where is it written that Picard cannot have fun driving the Argo?

Because Jean-Luc Picard as envisioned in TNG would simply never have an interest in recklessly driving some offroad jeep. The man is a gentleman explorer, not Mario Andretti. It's just not in his nature. It's one thing to say that he had some hobby that we were completely unaware of, but they're not even supposed to be using cars in the 24th century! That's like me having a burning urge to recklessly fly a replica of the Wright brothers' airplane.

I keep forgetting that in real life, people never change over a period of 15 years..... How incredibly stupid of me.....

As for the jeep..... DS9 already showed a throwback to old tech, with the TR-116 rifle. A weapon that can be used in certain situations where modern tech doesn't work. Same thing might be applicable here. The ion-storm intervers with the transporters, for all we know it could compromise any other tech they might have.

Nicely put. Even though the shuttle that ferried the Argo made it down, and back into orbit, those are short term uses of the ship. It is possible that the ion storm could have effects on prolonged exploratory flight of the Argo shuttle, or any ground-effect anti-grav based vehicle.

 

[Mage]

Because Jean-Luc Picard as envisioned in TNG would simply never have an interest in recklessly driving some offroad jeep. The man is a gentleman explorer, not Mario Andretti. It's just not in his nature. It's one thing to say that he had some hobby that we were completely unaware of, but they're not even supposed to be using cars in the 24th century! That's like me having a burning urge to recklessly fly a replica of the Wright brothers' airplane.

I keep forgetting that in real life, people never change over a period of 15 years..... How incredibly stupid of me.....

As for the jeep..... DS9 already showed a throwback to old tech, with the TR-116 rifle. A weapon that can be used in certain situations where modern tech doesn't work. Same thing might be applicable here. The ion-storm intervers with the transporters, for all we know it could compromise any other tech they might have.

Nicely put. Even though the shuttle that ferried the Argo made it down, and back into orbit, those are short term uses of the ship. It is possible that the ion storm could have effects on prolonged exploratory flight of the Argo shuttle, or any ground-effect anti-grav based vehicle.

Exactly. Sometimes I can't understand some fans' need to keep attached to what was, and not innovate.
"We've never before seen Picard loving high-speed racing, so he can't now!" *insert pouty face*

I never really understood the fun of driving. To me, it was supposed to get you from A to B. I was pretty late in getting my drivers license. When I did, a new world opened for me, and within a few years, I was driving a Nissan Skyline.

We first saw Picard in 2364. Nemesis is set in 2379. That's a 15 year gap.
Dukhat, are you seriously telling me that in terms of interests, hobbies, character, likes and dislikes, you are EXACTLY the same person you were 15 years ago?

 

[martok2112]

I'm glad we see eye to eye in that area, Mage. .

Oh, and hey, Dukhat's a good guy. I can appreciate folks' POV about characterizations, and Dukhat (and everone else) has his (their) reasons for feeling that characters might remain almost archetypical. I might not agree with them, but that is the beauty of opinions. . I think that from their POV, yes, real world human beings do change over 15 years time, but time can kinda be played with differently in the fictional realm. I'm not backpedaling my previous stance, but I must allow for how folk perceive things in the real vs fictional worlds.

If ya think on it, how long have the Peanuts been around, and they're still grade school kids?

Or a more contemporary example: The South Park kids?

Largely in terms of both the physical and in characterization, they are still "same as they ever was".

 

[Mage]

Yes, I see how my post could come across as strongly against Dukhat. I apologize for that, to Dukhat especially.