Nemesis and Trek XI similarities - It seems Bad

[Sec31Mike]

Star Trek: Nemesis was a movie made by a team not native to Star Trek. Stuart Baird Directed (He had also directed MI2, Tomb Raider, and went on to direct Superman Returns and Casino Royale). It was written by John Logan (Time Machine and Gladiator).
They spent $60 mil on production and $33 mil on advertising, but only took in $67 mil Worldwide for a net loss of $26 million.

Star Trek: XI Is being Directed by JJ Abrams (Alias, Lost,MI3) and written by Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci (Alias, MI3 and Transformers).

I don't know the production and advertising budget for the project. I am thinking something in the $125-145 Million range for everything.

I just see this as another implementation of the formula that drove Nemesis to failure and to an extent Enterprise being driven off the air.
The use of non Trek people seems not to work in my opinion. Trek seemed to have exploded under Bermen/Braga and the crew from TNG era Trek.

Another parallel is that Nemesis was made by the people that made MI2 and Trek: XI is being made by the people that made MI3.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

...

sigh

...

 

[Dale]

At least the word FLOP!!! was absent...

 

[TiberiusK]

You raise some interesting points, but Trek's demise was under Berman and Braga and other insiders. New blood has been very good for the franchise in the past: Harve Bennett replaced GR, and he hadn't even seen a episode of Trek prior to 81.

And I would compare Abrams' and Baird's work. Abrams' MI:III was clearly superior to MI:II and his others stuff is pretty awesome.

For Nimoy to agree to do this, it must be a good script. He refused to be a part of GEN because the script sucked.

 

[pookha]

Star Trek: Nemesis was a movie made by a team not native to Star Trek

so was wrath of khan.
some of best episodes were penned by non staff writers especially on tos.

 

[MalNar]

i thought john woo directed MI2

 

[Aragorn]

^ Yes, John Woo did. But that's besides Stewey 2's point.

 

[Basill]

^^

Sec31Mike said:
Star Trek: Nemesis was a movie made by a team not native to Star Trek. Stuart Baird Directed (He had also directed MI2, Tomb Raider, and went on to direct Superman Returns and Casino Royale). It was written by John Logan (Time Machine and Gladiator).

John Woo did direct MI2 and Bryan Singer directed Superman Returns.
As for major parallels... One major factor is no more... Rick Berman.

 

[Sec31Mike]

Correction:

As others have pointed out I have made a mistake. Stuart was the editor on my previously mentioned movies. I saw the wrong section on IMDB.

Stuart Baird Directed
U.S. Marshals (1998)
Executive Decision (1996)

This is still not a significant alteration to my original premise.

As for Harve Bennett, he was a man who did have extensive contacts all over hollywood, and who did give the Trek film(s) he worked on his best, and was willing to pull strings to get things done.

 

[Brandonv]

Sec31Mike said:
Should non Trek Writers and Directors be making Star Trek?

I think it depends. All Trek writers where non Trek writers before they wrote for Trek. As long as they bring in talented writers I don't see a problem.

 

[Kirkunit]

Baird also didn't direct Casino Royale. Either version.

Sec31Mike said:This is still not a significant alteration to my original premise.

Of course it's significant. In your original post you listed several movies that were very well received at the time -- especially Casino Royale. This gave credibility to your argument that no outsider can make a good Trek movie. The reality is, none of Baird's movies were particularly memorable. So, adding Nemesis to his list of creatively bereft movies should come as no surprise.

JJ Abrams, however, created (or co-created) Alias, Felicity & Lost, and directed MI3. All of these projects were critically acclaimed. Based on Abrams' resume, one should have a degree of faith that Trek is in good hands.

Of course, only you can decide if your glass is half empty or half full. But, before you start trying to convince people either way, you should have your facts straight.

 

[Broccoli]

Sec31Mike said:
Star Trek: Nemesis was a movie made by a team not native to Star Trek. Stuart Baird Directed (He had also directed MI2, Tomb Raider, and went on to direct Superman Returns and Casino Royale). It was written by John Logan (Time Machine and Gladiator).

You loose all credibility right away by not checking your facts.

Films mentioned and their correct directors:
MI2 - John Woo
Tomb Raider - Simon West
Superman Returns - Bryan Singer
Casino Royale - Martin Campbell

However, he did serve as editor on MI2 (in an uncredited capacity), Tomb Raider, Casino Royale. He had NOTHING to do with Superman Returns (however, he did serve as editor on Superman: The Movie [and apparently on Superman II: Donner Cut]).

An editor is very different than a director and Baird is pretty much a highly-rated editor. Interestingly, he did not edit Nemesis.

Besides Nemesis, Baird did direct US Marshals and Executive Decision.

Another parallel is that Nemesis was made by the people that made MI2 and Trek: XI is being made by the people that made MI3.

Well...you sold me. Conclusive evidence that STXI is going to flop like a dead fish on the dock.

 

[Kirkunit]

...and another thing. You made the comparison that the creative team behind MI2 was the creative team behind Nemesis. Know who wrote MI2? Ron Moore & Branon Braga! Holy cow are you off the mark. I'm not trying to pick on you, but, come on.

 

[Broccoli]

Kirkunit said:
...and another thing. You made the comparison that the creative team behind MI2 was the creative team behind Nemesis. Know who wrote MI2? Ron Moore & Branon Braga! Holy cow are you off the mark. I'm not trying to pick on you, but, come on.

Well...in fairness, MI2 was "Braga and Moore" in name only.

 

[pookha]

Sec31Mike said:
Correction:

As others have pointed out I have made a mistake. Stuart was the editor on my previously mentioned movies. I saw the wrong section on IMDB.

Stuart Baird Directed
U.S. Marshals (1998)
Executive Decision (1996)

This is still not a significant alteration to my original premise.

As for Harve Bennett, he was a man who did have extensive contacts all over hollywood, and who did give the Trek film(s) he worked on his best, and was willing to pull strings to get things done.

but he was new to the franchise.
which was the heart of your premise.

at least this group already are fans of star trek.

 

[EyalM]

Insurrection was an "in house" trek production. It was written by Michael Piller and directed by Jonathan Frakes. It didn't make it a good movie.

 

[Jon1701]

Sec31Mike said:
Star Trek: Nemesis was a movie made by a team not native to Star Trek. Stuart Baird Directed (He had also directed MI2, Tomb Raider, and went on to direct Superman Returns and Casino Royale). It was written by John Logan (Time Machine and Gladiator).
They spent $60 mil on production and $33 mil on advertising, but only took in $67 mil Worldwide for a net loss of $26 million.

Star Trek: XI Is being Directed by JJ Abrams (Alias, Lost,MI3) and written by Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci (Alias, MI3 and Transformers).

I don't know the production and advertising budget for the project. I am thinking something in the $125-145 Million range for everything.

I just see this as another implementation of the formula that drove Nemesis to failure and to an extent Enterprise being driven off the air.
The use of non Trek people seems not to work in my opinion. Trek seemed to have exploded under Bermen/Braga and the crew from TNG era Trek.

Another parallel is that Nemesis was made by the people that made MI2 and Trek: XI is being made by the people that made MI3.

Utter rubbish.

As many have pointed out, your facts are completely wrong. Check your facts before you start making an arguement. What are you trying to say? That only people that have written for Star Trek before can ever make Star Trek again?

You post two sentances that completely contridict each other back to back:

The use of non Trek people seems not to work in my opinion. Trek seemed to have exploded under Bermen/Braga and the crew from TNG era Trek.

So you dont want to use "non trek" people, but by your own admission trek exploded under Berman & Braga who worked for trek

What?

Who do you want to write this thing? You dont want anyone who worked for trek before to write it, but you dont want anyone "non trek" to either?

 

[Mr J]

Also, aside from the glaring flaws others have already pointed out, you also miss the fact that Abrams' work is clearly superior to anything that the previous ST regime created in the last twenty years or so.

 

[Stardate]

This is a confusing post but i can agree with Nemesis beeing a bad movie and recomened any* similarities between Nemesis and Trek XI SCOULD BE AVOIDED BY ALL COST.

 

[PowderedToastMan]

jesus I dont know where to start. It seems to me that the OP started with the 'it will suck' assumption and then tried to find some kind of evidence links the new people to Trek's biggest bomb. If there is any time in Trek history this is most like it would be Star Trek II with Meyer and Bennett

I am glad to see that only one person voted with the OP

I suggest to those two people....open your mind up to the possibilities. If Star Trek can only be made by people who have worked on it in the past, then you have a small pool that is growing older and smaller every day.