Nemesis and Trek XI similarities - It seems Bad
- Thread starter Sec31Mike
- Start date
at Stewey 2.
I'm not sure about whether I'll like it. There are some things that I've heard so far the make me skeptical.
Part of it *is* JJ. I never liked LOST or Alias, and after reading his Superman proposed script, I'm glad we got Superman Returns instead of JJ's version. Now Peter JAckson on the other hand is my kind of guy. At the very least LOTR is great for both fans and nonfans alike, and I've heard great things about King Kong.
Now another thing is the cameo flashback business. I have my doubts that it can be done without disrupting the storyline too much. It's possible, I just don't know.
And the last thing -- I really don't know how much faith JJ & co have in their story. Why are they afraid to say anything about it other than "it's a prequel with Kirk and Spock" oh and BTW the Enterprise will be seen. Playing it that close to their chest just makes me think we're gonna get "Tribbles on a Starship" or something. (though if we are getting Tribbles on a Starship, they need Samuel L Jackson).
Part of it *is* JJ. I never liked LOST or Alias, and after reading his Superman proposed script, I'm glad we got Superman Returns instead of JJ's version. Now Peter JAckson on the other hand is my kind of guy. At the very least LOTR is great for both fans and nonfans alike, and I've heard great things about King Kong.
Now another thing is the cameo flashback business. I have my doubts that it can be done without disrupting the storyline too much. It's possible, I just don't know.
And the last thing -- I really don't know how much faith JJ & co have in their story. Why are they afraid to say anything about it other than "it's a prequel with Kirk and Spock" oh and BTW the Enterprise will be seen. Playing it that close to their chest just makes me think we're gonna get "Tribbles on a Starship" or something. (though if we are getting Tribbles on a Starship, they need Samuel L Jackson).
Uh... perhaps because they want people to GO SEE THE FREAKIN MOVIE instead of just reading the script on the internet?!?!?
Seriously, how many productions have gone out and intentionally put out the details of their story in advance? SHEESH!
Both Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett were native to TREK and produced the best movies in the series: ST:2; ST:4; ST:6. I'm afraid there is no logic to your position.
John Logan wrote the screenplay for Nemesis, but the story was compiled by Berman, Spiner and Logan. No one can claim that Berman and Spiner were anything but native to the franchise by the time Nemesis hit pre-production.
Nemesis wasn't created by a team entirely foreign to the production of Star Trek, given Spiner and Berman's involvement.
Trek XI, for the most part, will be created by a completely new team. The closest comparison in terms of creative teams is TWOK.
Nemesis wasn't created by a team entirely foreign to the production of Star Trek, given Spiner and Berman's involvement.
Trek XI, for the most part, will be created by a completely new team. The closest comparison in terms of creative teams is TWOK.
^Why on earth would I? Such a glaringly misinformed post warranted an immediate reply. Plus, it's evident you're simply trying to string together details that - in the end - are completely hollow and obvious of an attempt not to draw meaningful parallels between X and XI, but to simply express your distaste for XI.
An opinion that was formed the moment you heard about XI.
God's sake. How any informed Trekkie that keeps a finger on the pulse of the Net could think Trek XI will be on par with the content, style and production of Trek X is deluded.
Trek XI = Star Trek - the fucking well real deal.
Trek X = The final splutter from a horse long since beat to a pulp. Picard clones, thaloron radit.... zzzzzzz...
The projects are not even close in terms of scope and expectations. God...
An opinion that was formed the moment you heard about XI.
God's sake. How any informed Trekkie that keeps a finger on the pulse of the Net could think Trek XI will be on par with the content, style and production of Trek X is deluded.
Trek XI = Star Trek - the fucking well real deal.
Trek X = The final splutter from a horse long since beat to a pulp. Picard clones, thaloron radit.... zzzzzzz...
The projects are not even close in terms of scope and expectations. God...
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
that's great and all... except Nemesis didn't suck because it "had a team not native to Star Trek"... in fact, the native Star Trek people are responsible for Voyager, Enterprise, and Insurrection, all of which sucked donkey balls.
Nemesis sucked was because the script sucked. So basically, the only way this would be a valid comparison as to why STXI is gonna suck... is if John Logan was writing Star Trek XI.
Nemesis sucked was because the script sucked. So basically, the only way this would be a valid comparison as to why STXI is gonna suck... is if John Logan was writing Star Trek XI.
I don't mean putting the entire script out on the internet. I just mean the premise of the movie -- just something slightly more than it's TOS with Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise. I don't think it would ruin the movie if I knew that the baddies were klingons or something.
Nemsis failed because it was bad. This time we don't have Stewart & Spiner messing with the story , we don't have a director because he owes a favor and we don't have a badly rehashed version of a classic because it was the 'fanboy' dream of the writer. We also have a different exec producer.
I don't like that they're going to Kirk & Spock but I'm encouraged by the Spock casting and most of all that Nimoy has decided to come out of retirement. He's long been difficult to get back into Trek. He'd completely retired from acting. Whatever the script is, he was sold on it to put the ears on one final time. Lastly, the retro-style teaser suggests perhaps they "get it" here.
I don't like that they're going to Kirk & Spock but I'm encouraged by the Spock casting and most of all that Nimoy has decided to come out of retirement. He's long been difficult to get back into Trek. He'd completely retired from acting. Whatever the script is, he was sold on it to put the ears on one final time. Lastly, the retro-style teaser suggests perhaps they "get it" here.
Yeah, well... that's assuming that this is a shoot-em-up with "baddies." But I'm not convinced that this is what the movie will be at all. Right now, there's NOTHING to be gained by putting out any HINT of what the story is, to the general public at least. In fact, I'm hoping that the "coming attractions trailers" for this film won't tell what the nature of the conflict is... only what the "look" of the film is, what the "feel" of the film is, and so forth... little if any plot should be revealed.
I don't want to know "who the baddies are" or even if there ARE "baddies" until I'm in the theater for the first time, watching the film. I want to know about the SETTING, sure... but I don't want to know the PLOT.
Why would anyone? I just don't get it.
Star Trek needs new blood. Whenever Trek was taken away from Berman & Braga's direct influence - Piller and then Behr with DS9, Coto with the fourth season of ENT - suddenly it gets good, as if by magic! 
That tells me exactly where the problem was. The problem is now gone. Why should we continue to lack faith in Star Trek?
That tells me exactly where the problem was. The problem is now gone. Why should we continue to lack faith in Star Trek?I disagree, Nemesis was the best of the TNG films. The fact that B&B were associated with it, and coming off STVOY is why I and a few others BOYCOTTED it, that and a HORRIBLE release date (LOTR killed it) were the problem
Baird added some much needed soul while totally respecting the series, Logan's script was awesome - what's the problem?
To be fair, Nemesis wasn't (IMHO) as bad as everyone keeps saying. There were huge portions of it that just sucked soooo badly that it took the rest of the movie down.
It was pretty obvious that many of the people who worked on the film did their level best to salvage things. But the foundation of the house was cracked so the rest of the work was largely wasted.
There are bits... sequences... details... that I really enjoyed. I loved the battle sequences... I loved the "fall of the Romulan Empire" thread.
I found the whole Shinzon bit to be annoying as hell, and I found the whole "B4" bit to be even more so. I found the "Picard is an action figure" bits to be laughable. And the "let's fly into a communications blind spot" trick to be ludicrous and contrived.
But there was enough good there that I actually enjoyed, overall, watching the film.
So shoot me...
It was pretty obvious that many of the people who worked on the film did their level best to salvage things. But the foundation of the house was cracked so the rest of the work was largely wasted.
There are bits... sequences... details... that I really enjoyed. I loved the battle sequences... I loved the "fall of the Romulan Empire" thread.
I found the whole Shinzon bit to be annoying as hell, and I found the whole "B4" bit to be even more so. I found the "Picard is an action figure" bits to be laughable. And the "let's fly into a communications blind spot" trick to be ludicrous and contrived.
But there was enough good there that I actually enjoyed, overall, watching the film.
So shoot me...
The problem with Nemesis is that it gets worse on subsequent viewings. I didnt mind it too much at the cinema (I got bored in the middle), but I just cant watch it any more. It just makes me mad. All the principles are either acting out of character or have nothing to do, and the plot contrivances are ridiculous.
Its a shame, as it has a nice start. The wedding scene is rather cute, but it all goes downhill from the moment they pick up a "positronic signiture"...
Its a shame, as it has a nice start. The wedding scene is rather cute, but it all goes downhill from the moment they pick up a "positronic signiture"...
I'm sorry, I seem to remember Maid in Manhattan beating Star Trek at the box office opening week!
Yep, Maid in Manhattan killed Nemesis, The running joke was that J. Lo's booty kicked Star Trek's ass.
To me, Nemesis was something that should have been a 2 part episode, not a major motion picture.
I see Trek XI as something of the same, I don't think they can dig up enough from the pre-TOS era to create a significant drama or interest the general public. Seeing how they aren't interested in tailoring this to the fans(The ones who spent Billions and Billions of dollars on Star Trek and related merchandise). There was a crew on the enterprise in The Cage era, number one for example, who are they going to recast Majel as? what about Pike, what about the older doctor.
It just seems that they are opening a can of worms that they cannot handle. There is serious potential of unraveling 41 years of established Trek with this project.
I wonder how they are going to compete with the other films coming out at the same time both dramatically and visually, and convince a lot of people to spend their $ on Trek, not whatever flavor of the month films that are out at the same time. As far as the general public is concerned they need to think long and hard on it.
To me, Nemesis was something that should have been a 2 part episode, not a major motion picture.
I see Trek XI as something of the same, I don't think they can dig up enough from the pre-TOS era to create a significant drama or interest the general public. Seeing how they aren't interested in tailoring this to the fans(The ones who spent Billions and Billions of dollars on Star Trek and related merchandise). There was a crew on the enterprise in The Cage era, number one for example, who are they going to recast Majel as? what about Pike, what about the older doctor.
It just seems that they are opening a can of worms that they cannot handle. There is serious potential of unraveling 41 years of established Trek with this project.
I wonder how they are going to compete with the other films coming out at the same time both dramatically and visually, and convince a lot of people to spend their $ on Trek, not whatever flavor of the month films that are out at the same time. As far as the general public is concerned they need to think long and hard on it.
number6
Vice Admiral
^^This is a non issue. The people that made Nemesis, for good or for ill, are not the same ones making this new film. They are appealing to a broader audience than just Star Trek fans, hence making a film about Kirk and Spock. The average person on the street recognizes these characters. They are cultural icons.
You and a few others here insist that this film will fail knowing nothing about the film, except for the little tidbits of info we have gotten. They haven't even started filming this. You have yet to even state any reason why you think this film will fail, except by citing how poorly Nemesis did and hanging the baggage of all the franchise's failures on this new crew of people making a completely different film.
The few "hardcore fans" who feel some kind of entitlement because they bought five different versions of Worf action figures and start petitions to kill any new idea coming out of the studio are exactly the kind of fan Paramount can easily do without.
There is no pleasing this kind of mentality and there is no reason to try.
No matter what kind of film we will see, there will be a vocal minority hellbent on finding things to complain about.
This has already started.
Why would anyone want to cater to pleasing such an implacable, obstinate crowd, who
will not only boycott this film, but encourage others to avoid based on flimsy tidbits of information from the 'net??
Why should anyone make a film for them?
It looks like these new guys are going to make a film for the people who want to see a Star Trek film. The rest of you can stay home.
You and a few others here insist that this film will fail knowing nothing about the film, except for the little tidbits of info we have gotten. They haven't even started filming this. You have yet to even state any reason why you think this film will fail, except by citing how poorly Nemesis did and hanging the baggage of all the franchise's failures on this new crew of people making a completely different film.
The few "hardcore fans" who feel some kind of entitlement because they bought five different versions of Worf action figures and start petitions to kill any new idea coming out of the studio are exactly the kind of fan Paramount can easily do without.
There is no pleasing this kind of mentality and there is no reason to try.
No matter what kind of film we will see, there will be a vocal minority hellbent on finding things to complain about.
This has already started.
Why would anyone want to cater to pleasing such an implacable, obstinate crowd, who
will not only boycott this film, but encourage others to avoid based on flimsy tidbits of information from the 'net??
Why should anyone make a film for them?
It looks like these new guys are going to make a film for the people who want to see a Star Trek film. The rest of you can stay home.
^ Truth ! ^
The fractured fan base isn't who this film is being made for, if it was being made for any fans it would be just the TOS fans and not the rest, sorry folks.
The general public also knows what TOS is as well, 40 some odd years of reruns does that you know. Moreso now that it's back in Syndication once again as TOS-R.
As well as being on TV Land & Sci-fi (I think they'er still running it anyawy.)
I'm starting to think of the film as, what if Gene Roddenberry had the $ and desided to do a Star Trek pilot as a feature film instead of something for TV what would it look like ?
- W -
* TOS fan *
The fractured fan base isn't who this film is being made for, if it was being made for any fans it would be just the TOS fans and not the rest, sorry folks.
The general public also knows what TOS is as well, 40 some odd years of reruns does that you know. Moreso now that it's back in Syndication once again as TOS-R.
As well as being on TV Land & Sci-fi (I think they'er still running it anyawy.)
I'm starting to think of the film as, what if Gene Roddenberry had the $ and desided to do a Star Trek pilot as a feature film instead of something for TV what would it look like ?
- W -
* TOS fan *
