NCC-1701: Reconciling Its TOS & DIS Configurations

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by FalTorPan, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    All interesting points. I would suggest you could shoehorn an on-screen canon-based rationale: The events of Star Trek: First Contact started a new timeline which Star Trek Enterprise is set in (and did not exist for the characters in TNG/DS9/VOY) and DISCO/Picard are actually set in the same Post-FC/ENT timeline. JJ-Trek is set in the Post-FC/ENT timeline also, but further splintered off by the Kelvin event.

    Or else, it's just a show and don't worry about it.

    --Alex
     
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  2. Dr. Kravaal

    Dr. Kravaal Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And it could be said that the look of the ships is what turned us all into Audubonian hull-watchers. The Orbit Jet actually had a stumpier version…but there is no thread on that outside of ARA Press…
     
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  3. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd been wondering if it could be explained away with the 30th century temporal wars mentioned in season three (and presumably tying in to ENT's temporal cold war) causing changes in the 23rd century.
     
  4. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Changes which come to a screeching halt at some point so the Constellation and Galaxy classes can remain basically unchanged (PIC)? And if the Constellation remains unchanged, then the TMP Constitution does also, as suggested by Short Treks? Or do we imagine something like the Enterprise-A interior there already, so it better matches DSC? How do we maintain the classic lineup by size, though?

    Better to table this discussion and see how the pieces lock together eventually.
     
  5. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    For me, it doesn't matter. It's the same ship, just in a different show. Years ago, I decided not to get hung up on canon and continuity. I treat each show as it's own thing.
     
  6. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, but this is about the situations in which it does matter, as with a recent Eaglemoss publication that had to make do with a bump in the ship lineup by size. If DSC is simply “disco-colored glasses”, then the classic Jefferies design should’ve been used in that size chart, in order to maintain consistency of artistic interpretation, and anything visual from DSC should’ve been left to its own tie-in publication.
     
  7. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Is it inconsistent, or a matter of which inconsistency to accept?
    23d century Cochrane could look that way due to the Companion. No idea about the Saaviks.
    FWIW, the Enterprise is as much a character as Kirk, Spock, etc.
     
  8. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actors are replaced when necessary. Changing established facts and designs is never necessary.
    It also has 6 legs of course, and always had.
     
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  9. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    It’s best to drill down to the root cause here, which is this 2004+ idea that Star Trek at its core is TOS, so the 23rd century should really be revised forever like Batman and not just left behind in the past. TNG through VGR had solved the problem of dated elements by mapping future years to seasons, so a few months from now we would’ve had the year 2398, and that would’ve been the framework for examining everything you can think of that’s relevant to 2021/22, not 1966 or 1987. But of course, getting viewers invested in new characters is comparatively difficult: you can’t just say “Spock!” and see people start watching a show regardless of how well it’s produced.
     
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  10. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    They should have just took the basic design and detailed it out bit more for their HD screens. Instead they went with another design almost entirely that's whats irritated some people.

    As to the discussion, if you're trying to do an omage of something you could take it too far and it becomes an insult to the admires of the previous design.

    I do like the design and I hope at the end of strange new worlds that it would undergo refit and it would be given straight pylons single impulse deck and other TOS shapes.

    Jefferies had a less is more approach, nice lines, simple. Everything under covers or inside, no star wars tacked on crap.
     
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  11. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's my hope as well. If only the pilots are the odd ones in the end and the other 70+ episodes still match, it's better than messing with the entire TOS show.
     
  12. RichT

    RichT Guest

    I've seen similar theories before, and honestly it explains a lot.

    TOS → TNG/DS9/VOY is the prime timeline. First Contact sets up a skewed timeline because Cochrane is exposed to future technology and knowledge. As a result the NX-01 is more advanced than in the prime timeline and plays a more significant role, hence why it's a historically important ship now whereas it's never previously mentioned in the prime timeline.

    This makes Enterprise actually a prequel to Discovery, not TOS, and explains why the ships in Discovery including the 1701 are larger and more advanced than they appeared in TOS.

    Picard takes place for the Picard of the Discovery timeline, not the prime timeline; hence why some people feel the "tone" is off. This is all but confirmed when Picard visits Starfleet Headquarters and sees a hologram of the Discovery 1701, not the prime 1701, and also explains why the Enterprise-D looks slightly different in his dream (three Bussard lights instead of two).

    Lastly, this means the Riker and Troi we see in "These are the Voyages" are also from the First Contact-Enterprise-Discovery-Picard timeline, not the prime timeline; and this explains why the events of "Pegasus" seen in "TATV" don't quite gel with what we see in the original TNG episode.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2021
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  13. Unicron

    Unicron Boss Monster Mod Moderator

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    I prefer to see the events of FC as a predestination paradox, as I think that's how the writers intended it. It's no different from the TOS crew going to 20th century California for whales, though I feel TVH doesn't deal with that as well personally.
     
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  14. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Timeline-change theories are on thin ice because it only takes a flashback from DSC/SNW/PIC to see the ENT era in Disco style also. They’re just not going to recreate Zimmerman’s production design or Foundation/Eden VFX if they can fancy it up to better fit DSC. You know, take a Disco-era bridge you have, redecorate it and come up with something along those lines, but not an actual restoration.
     
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  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Voyager directly references events of First Contact, and crosses over with DS9, complicating things because DS9 crosses over with TNG which crosses over with TOS and the classic movies.
     
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  16. Hades Temperature Checker

    Hades Temperature Checker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And your blood pressure thanks you.

    I'm the same way. The events and characters matter not the tech and set dressing.
     
  17. RichT

    RichT Guest

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Spaceship Jo

    Spaceship Jo Commander Red Shirt

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    As opposed to TNG and DS9 and VOY and ENT where they painstakingly recreated (not perfectly, but darn close) the TOS and TUC era sets accurately without throwing in their own style. (Even the Kelvinverse showed accurate Prime universe imagery where applicable).

    That's a huge part of the issue here. The 90s Trek shows were happy to go their own directions, but in terms of respecting their in-universe and BTS histories, they went the extra mile to NOT change things, thus establishing the franchise standard of how the franchise treats itself, which is now no longer the norm. But the new norm is in contrast of the entire rest of the history of Trek.

    And that's fine, it's doing its own thing. But it should be no surprise that it is jarring to people who like and are accustomed to a respectful way of doing things. Until DSC, there was a code of "if you don't want to show another Trek era in the way it already appeared, then don't show it, do something else" and even 2009 went that way: if it's going to be completely different, it's a different universe now. And no, changing makeup of Klingons or Andorians is not the same thing. The Enterprise Exterior and Interior are stars of the show as much as any of the leads, not special guests of the week.

    Edited to add: (And no, changing them as they move forward in time in-universe isn't a reboot nor is it disrespecting what came before if the before remains unchanged. TMP changed everything, but it did not sit in contrast to TOS as it moved it forward, and with enough believability that it could be the same ship with explicitly in-universe changes. TOS to TMP is a different beast altogether anyway as it was almost incomprehensible that any large group of people would hold them up next to each other, at that point as far as the creators were concerned, TOS was a thing of the past, not part of the new world of on-demand streaming, etc. The modern, connected world, if anything makes fidelity to the source material more essential not less, unless it is explicitly a new version, which the creators and marketing have decisively argued is not the case.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  19. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    Meh. Constitution class ships have long been supposed to be rather modular and easily changed up. It annoys me that they did it, but it doesn't break or even contradict anything.
     
  20. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    I’m not sure how many people realize it’s not just about the ship. In terms of SNW continuity, TOS will happen to the extent that it can be updated for the 2020s. It’s not like 2265 will see a “back to the ‘60s movement”, where people will suddenly say ‘man’ where ‘one’ or ‘person’ would be more appropriate, not to mention entire lines, characters, subplots or even episodes that could never exist 100% as we know them.

    In such a context it really doesn’t matter how well one ship design fits. All the continuity prior to LD is fair game for updates, unlike the Berman-era approach of treating it as period in-universe and avoiding embarrassing elements mostly by going there as rarely as possible. There is no need to bend over backwards if we realize that the Jefferies design is relevant through ENT or perhaps the KT, and then we have this redesign, which can be brought closer to TOS to whatever extent someone feels is necessary but never entirely. It’s a different continuity built upon and adding to the same basic canon, that’s all.