NASA may have accidentally created a warp field?

[PurpleBuddha]

If anyone wants to get a good idea of the current state involving the testing of the EM drive, there is a good write up on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/34cq1b/the_facts_as_we_currently_know_them_about_the/

Here is the source list for the write up:

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-4029
http://aviationweek.com/awin/propellentless-space-propulsion-research-continues
http://www.emdrive.com/NWPU2010translation.pdf
http://emdrive.com/principle.html
http://www.emdrive.com/yang-juan-paper-2012.pdf
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-YHXB200805027.htm
http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-3853
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20110023492
http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/02/more-emdrive-experiment-information.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2007089284.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/space/improbable-thruster-seems-work-violating-known-laws-physics/
http://web.archive.org/web/20121102...nae.com/proof-of-concept/experimental-results
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0807.1310v5.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20140000851.pdf
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

Whatever this turns out to be, at the very least it is interesting.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

I really don't want humanity going out into outer space until they learn to end the problems and overcome their natural tendencies of xenophobia and tribalism.

It doesn't work like that.

But it should.

I don't fance seeing a war that humans get in to with another sentient race over something like oil.

Like in Insurrection or Avatar.

That's pretty much the history of the human race.

They see something valuable and shiny, they want it, but there's alread people there, so they have to be moved and if they don't get moved then they get stomped.

And of course, the ends justify the means. Which the ends will be the huge profit.

That's what it is all about.

I really don't want those kinds of people going out into outer space, do you?

In short humans have expectations. That expectation is that they think everybody has to be like them and if they aren't like them then it's okay to hurt people to keep them in line with their beliefs.

Regardless of what those beliefs are, it's pretty much all the same behavior.

And i don't want humanity to get out into space and encountering other civilizations with that kind of attitude.

Sorry, but while this has me all hot and excited, i just don't have a positive view of humanity and how they will deal with another sentient civilization. It will invariably become a conflict in some way.

ADDENDUM:

Oh, and I have NEVER believed that the3re was no way to go faster than the speed of light.

I have always know that a way would be discovered.

Here's a question for the forum though, is this related to the Albucierre drive or is it something completely different?

 

[Ithekro]

Humans are what humans are. We won't change that until we find someone else out there that is different. We might react poorly. Or we might not. They might have a different way of looking at things. Even in Star Trek, humanity didn't change overnight. It took contact with the Vulcans and knowing there are more out there that can be reached, to change humanity. And even then it took a few generations to get reasonable people, and a few more to get Kirk's crew level of humanity. Then another two or three to get to Picard's era humanity.

We are humans. We are what we are. Without external influence, we won't really change that.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Actually i don't believe humans will change at all. Humans are notoriously resistant to change, and will not change without any incentive.

I'm sorry, but i do not have a very positive view of humanity as a whole.

It is very negative, and very cynical.

Edit

But I do think that we can eventually provide our own incentive to change.

It it will only come when we're under some sort of threat.

 

[fonzob1]

I say its time to start looking for alien life and other worlds we can possibly colonize. Whatever good or bad exists in humanity does not change the fact that we were born to explore.

 

[Metryq]

I'm sorry, but i do not have a very positive view of humanity as a whole.

Yet we've come as far as we have, which means progress outweighs regress—something to keep in mind when you're feeling especially cynical. The feat is even more impressive if you take evolution and anthropology to heart—that we're forging ahead despite our hardwired natures for contrary behavior.

But I do think that we can eventually provide our own incentive to change.

It it will only come when we're under some sort of threat.

Disagree. Explorers tend to be on the defensive, rather than offensive. Many "first contacts" go well. It is only follow-up interactions—when someone on either side sees something they want to possess—that offensive behavior tends to manifest.

 

[JTShanks]

Disagree. Explorers tend to be on the defensive, rather than offensive. Many "first contacts" go well. It is only follow-up interactions—when someone on either side sees something they want to possess—that offensive behavior tends to manifest.

Native Americans, Native African Tribes, Ancient Egyptians, India Natives, and last but not least the remaining Incan and other South American tribes.

All of those first contacts if you will did not go so well.

Native American's not being used to the diseases the Europeans brought over from the East killed them, not to mention that they did kill and take the land of some Native American's forcing them to move away from the coasts and further West.

Native Africans were immediately almost after their discovery taken as slaves and forced into lives of servitude.

Ancient Egyptians, India Natives and many of the Southern American tribes were all conquered by outsiders which caused a merger of the two cultures, the invaders and the natives, both the Southern American tribes and Ancient Egyptians lost out in that merger and their religion including their cultures to be nearly swept off the face of humanity.

 

[JTShanks]

A majority of the time when there is a first contact between two cultures it doesn't turn out so well in the long run, even if they don't want something to manifest.

 

[Metryq]

A majority of the time when there is a first contact between two cultures it doesn't turn out so well in the long run

"In the long run" is after first contact, right? Did you read what I wrote? To address just one of your examples, many of the North American colonies had peaceful first contacts with the locals. It should also be noted that some (but not all) of your saintly "native" Americans attacked others to acquire the land they held when Europeans arrived.

I'm not justifying anyone's actions, but bear in mind that this is human-on-human contact. First contact with ETs—whether we go to them, or they come to us—will be unlike anything in history. In cases of homicide, for example, victim and assailant tend to know one another. Wanton, motive-less murders are rarer.

This doesn't preclude conflict with ETs. Hopefully "getting to know them" will prove beneficial, rather than detrimental. But the automatic Humans Are Bad™ cynicism annoys me. On a day-to-day basis we usually hear about the bad things because they're sensational and sell headlines.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

On the subject of whether we'd inevitably go to war with whatever sentient aliens we found out there. I'm skeptical that anything we could possibly find out there would be so much more valuable than what we have now that it would be worth sending out a massive invasion force to get it. Even if we found something like Unobtanium out there, how could the amount we could efficiently bring back have a greater profit than the cost of getting there? And even if it could, how could it possibly be more cost efficient to attain it by conquering than by trading?

You could definitely argue that we are still a 'Dangerously savage child race' but you can't compare us now to the explorer/conquerers in the 15th century. The basic philosophical movement of the last three hundred years has been in the direction of pluralism and respect for basic rights.

If humans do think 'Everybody wants to be like us'. I see some trends in the opposite direction, that we exoticize foreign cultures and assume they don't want the same things we do: Safety, security, comfort. Maybe the Na'vi wouldn't want our blue jeans but I bet they'd want our medical knowledge. I see more people regarding less developed cultures as some anthropological relic that needs to be preserved, which is much more arrogant than thinking they should be like us.

 

[StarCruiser]

Disagree. Explorers tend to be on the defensive, rather than offensive. Many "first contacts" go well. It is only follow-up interactions—when someone on either side sees something they want to possess—that offensive behavior tends to manifest.

Native Americans, Native African Tribes, Ancient Egyptians, India Natives, and last but not least the remaining Incan and other South American tribes.

All of those first contacts if you will did not go so well.

Native American's not being used to the diseases the Europeans brought over from the East killed them, not to mention that they did kill and take the land of some Native American's forcing them to move away from the coasts and further West.

Native Africans were immediately almost after their discovery taken as slaves and forced into lives of servitude.

Ancient Egyptians, India Natives and many of the Southern American tribes were all conquered by outsiders which caused a merger of the two cultures, the invaders and the natives, both the Southern American tribes and Ancient Egyptians lost out in that merger and their religion including their cultures to be nearly swept off the face of humanity.

Native Africans (and people all over the region) had been practicing slavery for thousands of years prior to Europeans coming down there. Europeans also spent time as slaves at various points in history...

People need to stop pointing fingers, lest they be snipped off!

 

[{ Emilia }]

Let me get this straight: Are you saying Native Americans or black people have no reason to point fingers and blame white people for some of the shit that happened?

 

[Amaris]

 

[StarCruiser]

Let me get this straight: Are you saying Native Americans or black people have no reason to point fingers and blame white people for some of the shit that happened?

No - everyone has something to be ashamed of at some point in history. It's just getting silly to keep pointing and complaining over and over again about the same things...

Better to move on and find a way to get along better and NOT make those same mistakes again.

 

[Ithekro]

The African slave trade was started a very, very, very long time ago by the locals. What we think of as white man's first contact is not the first contact, just more direct communications farther south. The slave trade can go back thousands of years in that region. The local dealers sold black African slaves north to Egypt, later Rome, then to the Islamic Empires, then finally more directly to the upcoming Europeans Kingdoms.

It increased after the founding of colonies in the New World as the natives proved not to be all that useful as slave labor (things like smallpox were making them drop like flies), plus the Catholics wanted to convert them all rather than enslave them all, so treated them like something else. So to maintain the new colonial empires, the need for slave labor increased as the number of indentured servants and European labor was not there in enough numbers to both get the gold, plant the fields, and defend the colonies from natives or other europeans. Thus the African slave trade just increased in size, rather than start anew.

 

[dswynne1]

I do believe that some discoveries can come about accidentally (i.e. the microwave oven). However, even if this "warp drive discovery" was the case, it would still be decades before a genuine field test occurs, especially on the effects of traveling faster than the speed of light on biological organisms. Last thing I want is to mutate into some sort of salamander...

 

[Dryson]

Disagree. Explorers tend to be on the defensive, rather than offensive. Many "first contacts" go well. It is only follow-up interactions—when someone on either side sees something they want to possess—that offensive behavior tends to manifest.

Native Americans, Native African Tribes, Ancient Egyptians, India Natives, and last but not least the remaining Incan and other South American tribes.

All of those first contacts if you will did not go so well.

Native American's not being used to the diseases the Europeans brought over from the East killed them, not to mention that they did kill and take the land of some Native American's forcing them to move away from the coasts and further West.

Native Africans were immediately almost after their discovery taken as slaves and forced into lives of servitude.

Ancient Egyptians, India Natives and many of the Southern American tribes were all conquered by outsiders which caused a merger of the two cultures, the invaders and the natives, both the Southern American tribes and Ancient Egyptians lost out in that merger and their religion including their cultures to be nearly swept off the face of humanity.

Starfleet explorers are defensive in nature but not the explorers of the ancient world. After Christ was crucified it was rumored that the Templars took his remains and the artifacts such as the Spear of Destiny and the Ark of the Covenant out of the Middle East to newly discovered land that was thought to have been uninhabited.

This gave rise in my opinion to the cover up of the search for the fastest route to India by explorers who were thought to have been looking for the route to India but would have been looking for the route that the Templars took when they left with the sacred body and artifacts.

Once it was told of great gold deposits in South America the explorers coming in such of the religious artifacts switched their goal to destroying the natives for their gold. Which I believe was a diversion by the Templars to steer them away from the route that the Templars took so that time could be had to bury the remains of Christ as well as the Ark and other artifacts.

 

[Dryson]

I do believe that some discoveries can come about accidentally (i.e. the microwave oven). However, even if this "warp drive discovery" was the case, it would still be decades before a genuine field test occurs, especially on the effects of traveling faster than the speed of light on biological organisms. Last thing I want is to mutate into some sort of salamander...

The real question is how does traveling through space time where there is no gravity affect a biological organism?

 

[{ Emilia }]

Let me get this straight: Are you saying Native Americans or black people have no reason to point fingers and blame white people for some of the shit that happened?

No - everyone has something to be ashamed of at some point in history. It's just getting silly to keep pointing and complaining over and over again about the same things...

Better to move on and find a way to get along better and NOT make those same mistakes again.

Would you agree that for the sake of fairness it would be more reasonable to expect people to "move on" after they've received reparation payments?

Also, it seems white people are making the same mistake again because there's systemic discrimination against black people when you look at what the police in the US does. Not to mention economic differences. It seems Native Americans are also still feeling the long-lasting effects of white supremacy.

So it's a bit rich to ask the victims to "move on".

 

[StarCruiser]

The current generation of black americans are better off (in some way - not in others) than their ancestors were. "Compensation" in the terms of just giving money isn't really that helpful.

The better way to compensate would be to finally put that last nail in the coffin of racism and bigotry. Make sure EVERYONE has fair access to a good (not as easy as you think) education and then ensure fairness in hiring practices, legal treatment etc...

If we can finish knocking down all of those ridiculous walls that have been setup to "keep them in their place", then they can move right up as equals. Just basically, get out of the way and let them succeed.