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Name your imponderables for Star Trek

Had Star Trek debuted a year or two later, they probably would have had to make accommodations.

Break me a give. It was momentous when the Trek franchise finally put a non-white in the big chair a quarter-century later.

White actors playing nonwhite roles became controversial because it was an expression of racism. Specifically the racist assumption that good God-fearing Americans didn't want dirty Indians and Negroes and what-have-you on their film and television screens. Therefore nonwhite actors were denied work in roles actually portraying their own cultures or were forced to work in ghettoes of largely negative and stereotypical roles. Those barriers began to collapse in the Sixties, but even now we're far from at the end of that process.

White actors do not suffer from any corresponding lack of representation or roles (except to the extent that there is still a paucity of good roles for women). Black actors are not being hired to portray negative stereotypes of whites. White actors are not being confined to portraying witless, expendable sidekicks or criminals or savages. It damages no-one that Idris Elba gets to play Heimdall; this is just another case of certain persons of pallor falsely imagining themselves to be victims of "racism" because other people are finally getting access to privileges they've always tacitly assumed to be rightfully theirs alone.

The idiotic babbling about "political correctness" always has to ignore extremely obvious, simple, plain facts like this.

All of this exactly (I was going to post an explanation myself, but I'm way too fuzzy from a cold to be articulate.)

Also, 'political correctness' is a stupid argument. Without people forcing issues of representation and equal rights, things would never change.
 
Political correctness was never about giving people equal rights, it's about censorship of language that is equal rights issues adjacent. In my experience, exposure to political correctness has led people to become more racist rather than less racist, and made them more resistant to actual social changes.

You're absolutely right that there are great inequities in the availability of roles today, and I agree that's a good reason not to give minority roles to white actors. (Besides the fact that the white guy who plays an Asian in Broken Blossoms by squinting looks really stupid doing so). But outside of a historical context where those cultural wounds are still so fresh, wouldn't you want to cast the actor who would carry the role best regardless of whether their demographic background is identical to that of the character?

This is an issue because of the social and income inequities of today. If a hundred years from now, the average black man has the same income and the same opportunities as the average white man, I doubt anybody will care about the race of individual casting decisions anymore.
 
Had Star Trek debuted a year or two later, they probably would have had to make accommodations.

Break me a give. It was momentous when the Trek franchise finally put a non-white in the big chair a quarter-century later.

White actors playing nonwhite roles became controversial because it was an expression of racism. Specifically the racist assumption that good God-fearing Americans didn't want dirty Indians and Negroes and what-have-you on their film and television screens. Therefore nonwhite actors were denied work in roles actually portraying their own cultures or were forced to work in ghettoes of largely negative and stereotypical roles. Those barriers began to collapse in the Sixties, but even now we're far from at the end of that process.

White actors do not suffer from any corresponding lack of representation or roles (except to the extent that there is still a paucity of good roles for women). Black actors are not being hired to portray negative stereotypes of whites. White actors are not being confined to portraying witless, expendable sidekicks or criminals or savages. It damages no-one that Idris Elba gets to play Heimdall; this is just another case of certain persons of pallor falsely imagining themselves to be victims of "racism" because other people are finally getting access to privileges they've always tacitly assumed to be rightfully theirs alone.

The idiotic babbling about "political correctness" always has to ignore extremely obvious, simple, plain facts like this.

Very well said, up until the last sentence.
 
In my experience, exposure to political correctness

Agreed with Hazel that this is just a foolish term. It basically attempts to lump together justified censure of racism with unjustified overreach. (Hence my reference to "idiotic babbling" which JD5000 didn't care for, which is fair and I withdraw that -- it's just that this is a sufficiently irritating and aggressively clueless trope that my patience with it is really really thin.)

has led people to become more racist rather than less racist, and made them more resistant to actual social changes.

This I do not buy at all. More racist than when lynching was common practice and there were laws on the books against miscegenation? This is a standard excuse that bigots will advance for the persistence of their bigotry, which they know is shameful and is thus easier to blame on outside influences -- but it's a mistake to believe it. The truth is the reverse: what really moves the needle away from racism in practice is confronting and shaming it, not tiptoeing around it for fear of "political correctness."

But outside of a historical context where those cultural wounds are still so fresh, wouldn't you want to cast the actor who would carry the role best regardless of whether their demographic background is identical to that of the character?

The nice thing about casting actors from minorities for minority-specific roles is that they also usually happen to be best qualified to sell the role, and for non-specific roles it shouldn't matter and will be nice when it actually doesn't.
 
Did Neelix, Kes, Spock, Kira, Odo etc learn English (or Standard) or was their speech constantly being translated? What about when they didn't wear a combadge?
 
Being politically correct within one's self and speech is just polite.

Enforcing your own standards for political correctness on others that aren't your responsibility (you can still choose your friends and guide your children) is unreasonable.

Now, another imponderable, for me: How do you allow a man who has had his mind copied into the Borg Collective just resume command of the Federation flagship?
 
Well, it's not very polite to use language which is demeaning, offensive or prejudiced to others when there are plenty of other good words either. (I know you're not saying that, I'm just pointing out politeness goes both way)

Blaming 'political correctness' is just a way to build a strawman argument against getting rid of discriminatory language and behaviour. Despite what anti-'PC' folk say, no-one is actually going up to people who say 'manhole' instead of 'personhole'* and poppping them in the mouth. They're just saying slurs against sex, race and other factors are harmful.

*I've seen anti-PC people say that this kind of word-policing goes on. Never seen it myself, but even if one person is being ridiculous abut a word, why brand other all the people in a movement?
 
Despite what anti-'PC' folk say, no-one is actually going up to people who say 'manhole' instead of 'personhole'* and poppping them in the mouth.
I try to be polite and reasonably PC for my own part, but I have to say, I'd be pretty tempted to kick someone who said 'personhole' right in their personhole. :lol:
 
Despite what anti-'PC' folk say, no-one is actually going up to people who say 'manhole' instead of 'personhole'* and poppping them in the mouth.
I try to be polite and reasonably PC for my own part, but I have to say, I'd be pretty tempted to kick someone who said 'personhole' right in their personhole. :lol:

I still snigger everytime someone says they're going down a manhole :D
 
Did Neelix, Kes, Spock, Kira, Odo etc learn English (or Standard) or was their speech constantly being translated? What about when they didn't wear a combadge?

Weren't UT's implants at this point? I'm thinking of Quark, Rom and Nog smacking their ears in "Little Green Men".
 
Now, another imponderable, for me: How do you allow a man who has had his mind copied into the Borg Collective just resume command of the Federation flagship?
You assign the ship to the butt end of space and hope you won't need it.

In today's Navy and/or NASA, he would either be tucked away in an office somewhere or retired.

My biggest pet peave is the total lack of realism for the sake of the episode. I love trek, but it is no where near believable in the true sense.
 
I bet they have PTSD hyposprays to fix you. They seem to have gotten rid of most mental health conditions and the few that show up are a real head scratcher for the enlightened ones (Barclay, Suder..)

Instant fix burns, turned into another species and back again in a day.. why not wire brains to function at the highest levels of copacetic and keep hitting redo every time something shitty happens?
 
Now, another imponderable, for me: How do you allow a man who has had his mind copied into the Borg Collective just resume command of the Federation flagship?
You assign the ship to the butt end of space and hope you won't need it.
That explains First Contact well enough, but not everything between "Family" and the end of Generations.
Troi and Crusher said he was fine and signed a permission slip.
 
My biggest pet peave is the total lack of realism for the sake of the episode. I love trek, but it is no where near believable in the true sense.

Not believable in the "true sense"? :guffaw:

You know it's fiction and fantasy, right?

My pet peave (sic) is people who complain about how stuff isn't perfect, and misspell words in the process. ;)
 
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