Nagging Questions Thread(Spoilers)

[Tom Servo]

How was Admiral Marcus going to force his daughter to keep quiet if he destroyed the Enterprise? Not to mention it would have been destroyed near Earth so it wasn't the Klingons. And he would have to explain his new bad ass ship controlled by a bunch of guys from Trek's Blackwater Corp.

Well I don't think that Marcus's primary plan but he had to improvise. I don't have an answer for Carol, but as for the Enterprise, beam the smaller debris from the ship onto the Vengeance, and tractor the bigger pieces of the hulk back to the edge of the neutral zone.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Why was Khan white?

Honestly, Benedict is a brilliant actor, and was brilliant in the role, I have no beef with him, but they seriously couldn't find an actor of colour to play Khan? One of the most iconic roles in film history and they decided to whitewash him? Seriously? This is why I do not regularly consume Hollywood films.

At least they did not try to put him in "brown" face but still. I literally rolled my eyes and shook my head when they revealed he is Khan.

Well, Ricardo Montalban was hardly African American. He was pretty light skinned himself.

 

[Franklin]

How was Admiral Marcus going to force his daughter to keep quiet if he destroyed the Enterprise? Not to mention it would have been destroyed near Earth so it wasn't the Klingons. And he would have to explain his new bad ass ship controlled by a bunch of guys from Trek's Blackwater Corp.

If all had gone his way, Marcus did say he'd deal with his daughter later, which led me to believe she'd face some kind of banishment though the official record would be she died aboard the Enterprise.

Marcus would've gotten his war, anyway. The destruction of the Enterprise would be blamed on Khan, who was an agent of the Klingons. The story would go that the Enterprise went after Khan, fought valiantly, but in the end, Starfleet had to reveal its badass ship to come in and "save the day." And thank God we had it. Now, the Vengeance will head to Kronos and avenge the destruction of the Enterprise and its crew. REMEMBER THE ENTERPRISE! It's all about spin.

(Except Vengeance is a stupid name for the ship. It's a dead giveaway. The Peacekeeper would've been better and dripping with more irony.)

 

[ConRefit79]

How was Admiral Marcus going to force his daughter to keep quiet if he destroyed the Enterprise? Not to mention it would have been destroyed near Earth so it wasn't the Klingons. And he would have to explain his new bad ass ship controlled by a bunch of guys from Trek's Blackwater Corp.

Well I don't think that Marcus's primary plan but he had to improvise. I don't have an answer for Carol, but as for the Enterprise, beam the smaller debris from the ship onto the Vengeance, and tractor the bigger pieces of the hulk back to the edge of the neutral zone.

What happened to all the lunar colonies? Are they just like the Vengeance's drydock orbiting Jupiter, no one is ever monitoring ships coming and going.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well the superman references were to illustrate the absurdity of the whole magic blood thing.

I don't think so. Actually, I took the "superman" reference as a nice bit of foreshadowing to Harrison's reveal as Khan. Since, according to the dialog in Space Seed, Khan and his followers were the "80 or 90 young supermen" missing at the end of the Eugenics Wars.

 

[ConRefit79]

Well the superman references were to illustrate the absurdity of the whole magic blood thing.

I don't think so. Actually, I took the "superman" reference as a nice bit of foreshadowing to Harrison's reveal as Khan. Since, according to the dialog in Space Seed, Khan and his followers were the "80 or 90 young supermen" missing at the end of the Eugenics Wars.

No I said if their blood can heal aliens, 20th century scientists would never have seen or known about, why not make them fly and bullet proof. That was my superman reference.

 

[Jazz]

Well, Ricardo Montalban was hardly African American. He was pretty light skinned himself.

"of colour" does not necessarily mean African American, IIRC Montalban was Latin American? They could have used a Middle Eastern actor, someone from Bollywood etc etc

 

[Silversmok3]

Do you think Spock Prime will have the Spock phone disconnected before the next film?

God I hope so. It's time for these boys to take the training wheels off.

Did Kirk lose his command because he violated the Prime Directive or because he filed a false report? The wife and I both go with filing a false report.

I'm thinking it was the one-two punch of violating the Prime Directive and filing the false report. The first might have gotten Kirk some sort of punishment short of demotion, but he went and compounded the problem by lying to Starfleet, so it became an issue that absolutely had to be addressed in a strong way. As Pike told him, the initial plan after his demotion was to send him back to the Academy, which seems a lot for just a false report. Pike's powers of persuasion, of course, saved Kirk from that particular fate, and instead put him in the first officer position.

I go with filing the false report. There is no excuse for that whatsoever. In the real world, it's a crime for a captain to falsify his log. You also can have someone captaining a starship that you can't trust.

Actually, I found it completely out of Kirk's character to blatantly cover up an act like that. Even this young Kirk. It bothered me. Kirk may have stretched or broken regulations, but he stood behind what he did. He stood on principle in the K-M test, he didn't deny cheating or try to cover it up.

As far as breaking the Prime Directive thing goes, I don't think its interpretation in this movie fit very well with the TOS version, anyway. That said, how the hell could you bust a guy when he could (should) say in response, "Gee sir, you're right. I'm sorry. I forgot Starfleet is a selective humanitarian armada, and I should've let several hundred million intelligent humoids die even though I could've stopped it. Yeah. Scew them for not having warp drive. Rules are rules. We should feel morally superior about turning our backs on such things instead of amoral. And I'd have probably slept better that night knowing I followed the directive, even with all that blood on my hands. Of course, if there were some important mineral on that planet the Federation needed, that's different too, sir. Isn't it?"

Of course philosophical arguments like the above don't fit well into an action-adventure movie.

Those philosophical arguments also have no place in a military chain of command.

If you're a part of a disciplined military organization like Starfleet, there are rules you absolutely do not break. Sometimes that means you have to stand by and watch evil things happen, because the reason the rule exists to begin with is due to the likelihood of unintended and severe consequences. We see this in the film : the USS Enterprise is now likely enshrined on Nibiru as a religious symbol thanks to Kirk's actions.

 

[beamMe]

Why was Khan white?

Honestly, Benedict is a brilliant actor, and was brilliant in the role, I have no beef with him, but they seriously couldn't find an actor of colour to play Khan? One of the most iconic roles in film history and they decided to whitewash him? Seriously? This is why I do not regularly consume Hollywood films.

At least they did not try to put him in "brown" face but still. I literally rolled my eyes and shook my head when they revealed he is Khan.

Well, Ricardo Montalban was hardly African American. He was pretty light skinned himself.

Sorry, but what's African American got to do with Khan or Montalban?
You know, you are allowed to say black in reference to skin tones.

The colour of Khan's skin is irrelevant anyway. He could've been played by Garrett Wang if he had any acting skills.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

That's why I was disappointed in this Kirk. Besides, like I said in a post above, forging or lying in a log is a criminal offense in the real world. In the U.S., even a civilian captain can be taken to Federal Court to face charges for falsifying a log to cover something up.

Kirk's lucky he didn't face court martial and dismissal from Starfleet.

This Kirk has done a half a dozen things that rightly should have gotten him drummed out of the service, but Pike consistently steps in to promote him or save his ass. All because he "sees something" in Kirk. What exactly that is, except for (as Pike tells us, rather than Kirk ever doing anything particularly "genius level") have a genius IQ and a father who heroically gave his life to save a ship's crew, is fairly mysterious. So my nagging question would be: why would Pike choose to champion a hotheaded rebel without a clue?

Other, of course, than the writers wanting to make Kirk both a hotheaded rebel and get him in the captian's chair all in one movie (well, all in two movies, since his rapid promotion after blatantly disobeying orders and putting people in danger happens again in this movie)...

 

[ConRefit79]

Other, of course, than the writers wanting to make Kirk both a hotheaded rebel and get him in the captian's chair all in one movie (well, all in two movies, since his rapid promotion after blatantly disobeying orders and putting people in danger happens again in this movie)...

People admire and envy a genius, very good and successful people all the time. But they try to tear them down or love watching them fail. But for some reason, they love rebels, flaws and all.

 

[Timo]

Interesting points here, even for somebody who hasn't seen the movie yet (two weeks to the local premiere)...

The Kirk of TOS doesn't falsify reports? Huh? ST2 makes it pretty clear that Starfleet doesn't knew where the Kirk of "Space Seed" marooned Khan; that he marooned Khan in the first place; or that he even met the man. Kirk in TOS apparently filed very selective reports.

Kirk didn't break the Prime Directive because even when he did, he did it for self-protection? Doesn't wash, as "Omega Glory" makes it clear that if the two alternatives are death and breaking of the PD, a proper Starfleet officer always falls on his own sword. So what if Vaal refused to let Kirk leave? It certainly allowed Kirk to kill himself, or get killed by the local deathtraps, and Kirk was remiss in his duties for not proceeding with that.

Tribbles are not from Earth? Who can tell? They seem optimized for making humans happy. Probably grown in a vat in some easygoing state of United Earth.

Agreed that Pike using Kirk as a pawn in some strange game is the most consistent way to explain what happens to the poor youngster here. Pike apparently strongly believes his Starfleet is in need of hotheads - or at least he flat out said so to Kirk in the bar, although that may have been a means to an end.

Using Garrett Wang for Khan would definitely be yellowwashing. Khan Singh was made iconic with a specific phenotype that included ethnicity, even if said ethnicity admittedly was of a characteristically vague Hollywood type. I'd have much preferred an indirect reference to Khan here. Say, this is his old right-hand man, or the Augment who almost defeated him back when the supermen fought each other, or perhaps some "white hat" nation's anti-Khan, created to defeat the Prince of Millions and then quietly go away - into storage for further use. Oh, well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Franklin]

God I hope so. It's time for these boys to take the training wheels off.

Did Kirk lose his command because he violated the Prime Directive or because he filed a false report? The wife and I both go with filing a false report.

I'm thinking it was the one-two punch of violating the Prime Directive and filing the false report. The first might have gotten Kirk some sort of punishment short of demotion, but he went and compounded the problem by lying to Starfleet, so it became an issue that absolutely had to be addressed in a strong way. As Pike told him, the initial plan after his demotion was to send him back to the Academy, which seems a lot for just a false report. Pike's powers of persuasion, of course, saved Kirk from that particular fate, and instead put him in the first officer position.

I go with filing the false report. There is no excuse for that whatsoever. In the real world, it's a crime for a captain to falsify his log. You also can have someone captaining a starship that you can't trust.

Actually, I found it completely out of Kirk's character to blatantly cover up an act like that. Even this young Kirk. It bothered me. Kirk may have stretched or broken regulations, but he stood behind what he did. He stood on principle in the K-M test, he didn't deny cheating or try to cover it up.

As far as breaking the Prime Directive thing goes, I don't think its interpretation in this movie fit very well with the TOS version, anyway. That said, how the hell could you bust a guy when he could (should) say in response, "Gee sir, you're right. I'm sorry. I forgot Starfleet is a selective humanitarian armada, and I should've let several hundred million intelligent humoids die even though I could've stopped it. Yeah. Scew them for not having warp drive. Rules are rules. We should feel morally superior about turning our backs on such things instead of amoral. And I'd have probably slept better that night knowing I followed the directive, even with all that blood on my hands. Of course, if there were some important mineral on that planet the Federation needed, that's different too, sir. Isn't it?"

Of course philosophical arguments like the above don't fit well into an action-adventure movie.

Those philosophical arguments also have no place in a military chain of command.

If you're a part of a disciplined military organization like Starfleet, there are rules you absolutely do not break. Sometimes that means you have to stand by and watch evil things happen, because the reason the rule exists to begin with is due to the likelihood of unintended and severe consequences. We see this in the film : the USS Enterprise is now likely enshrined on Nibiru as a religious symbol thanks to Kirk's actions.

Not to start an argument, but as applied here, the PD is illogically reasoned and totally amoral. I wouldn't expect it to exist in this form in any real humanitarian service. Who sleeps well the night he goes to bed after having let tens or hundreds of millions of intelligent beings he could've saved die? How can that be at all rationalized as virtuous? And, "I was only following orders," is never a defense for letting an atrocity happen. A rule should never absolutely prevent aiding humanity -- any humanity.

Good thing Superman doesn't follow a PD.

 

[Jazz]

Using Garrett Wang for Khan would definitely be yellowwashing. Khan Singh was made iconic with a specific phenotype that included ethnicity, even if said ethnicity admittedly was of a characteristically vague Hollywood type.

Absolutely agreed. I remember watching Space Seed for the first time and being excited/amazed/blown away they had a prominent powerful character that was clearly not white and even better played by a non-white actor, and those feelings were extended to the film when they cast the same actor to play him again.

I'd have much preferred an indirect reference to Khan here. Say, this is his old right-hand man, or the Augment who almost defeated him back when the supermen fought each other, or perhaps some "white hat" nation's anti-Khan, created to defeat the Prince of Millions and then quietly go away - into storage for further use. Oh, well.

Timo Saloniemi

This is exactly what I was hoping for in the lead up to the big reveal.

 

[cwalrus2]

I enjoyed the movie but why did they need Khan's blood at the end to save Kirk when they had all of Khan's crew cryo-frozen? They could have extracted the blood from one of the frozen crew members and it wouldn't have mattered if Spock killed Khan in the end pursuit. Of course, Starfleet would have probably reprimanded Spock for not taking Khan in alive but after all the damage Khan did, I doubt there would have been too many tears shed for killing Khan without a trial.

 

[M'Sharak]

Well, Ricardo Montalban was hardly African American. He was pretty light skinned himself.

"of colour" does not necessarily mean African American, IIRC Montalban was Latin American?

Born in Mexico City, but both parents were immigrants from Spain (Castile). Montalban was no more "of color" than is Cumberbatch, though he probably did get some bronze color added in makeup for "Space Seed".

 

[ConRefit79]

I enjoyed the movie but why did they need Khan's blood at the end to save Kirk when they had all of Khan's crew cryo-frozen? They could have extracted the blood from one of the frozen crew members and it wouldn't have mattered if Spock killed Khan in the end pursuit. Of course, Starfleet would have probably reprimanded Spock for not taking Khan in alive but after all the damage Khan did, I doubt there would have been too many tears shed for killing Khan without a trial.

Some said they didn't know if the other 72's blood would work, but they took one of the 72 out and kept him in a coma. They needed the tube to preserve Kirk. So you would think McCoy would test that blood to.

So in one scene McCoy has no idea how to revive them cause it's 300 years old. But after narrowly escaping death, it comes to him.

 

[Franklin]

I enjoyed the movie but why did they need Khan's blood at the end to save Kirk when they had all of Khan's crew cryo-frozen? They could have extracted the blood from one of the frozen crew members and it wouldn't have mattered if Spock killed Khan in the end pursuit. Of course, Starfleet would have probably reprimanded Spock for not taking Khan in alive but after all the damage Khan did, I doubt there would have been too many tears shed for killing Khan without a trial.

Some said they didn't know if the other 72's blood would work, but they took one of the 72 out and kept him in a coma. They needed the tube to preserve Kirk. So you would think McCoy would test that blood to.

So in one scene McCoy has know idea how to revive them cause it's 300 years old. But after narrowly escaping death, it comes to him.

For what it's worth, was it said in the movie that the other 72 were augments like Khan? Did Khan specifically say or insinuate to Kirk and Spock that they all were supermen? I honestly don't remember.

Could be too that taking blood from another augment would require that blood being tested as thoroughly as Khan's blood was before it could be used. That would take time. It's also proper to assume that not all the augments's blood was as compatible as Khan's was. Do they just start opening up tubes and testing blood till they find someone with blood like Khan's or go for the real thing?

 

[KittyDuran]

Well, Ricardo Montalban was hardly African American. He was pretty light skinned himself.

"of colour" does not necessarily mean African American, IIRC Montalban was Latin American?

Born in Mexico City, but both parents were immigrants from Spain (Castile). Montalban was no more "of color" than is Cumberbatch, though he probably did get some bronze color added in makeup for "Space Seed".

When I first saw “Space Seed” I was vaguely familiar with world history and thought that Montalban’s look was appropriate but not as Oriental as I had hoped (with the name of Khan I was expecting Mongolian i.e., Genghis Khan). Years passed and Time magazine came out with a cover story of how someone would look possibly in the future living in the US – the woman portrayed had a unique and quite beautiful blending of features of the various racial types (picture below):

http://www.racialcompact.com/Time_Fall_1993.JPG

If someone were to engineer super humans meant to rule the world wouldn’t they combine the races as to gain confidence of the masses (“he’s/she’s/they’re like one of us”)?

Edit... they were engineered as warriors but became warlords. (sorry)

 

[I am not Spock]

5. Why did Praxis explode early?

I'm wondering has it exploded in STID or is that the state the Klingon's have the moon in that causes it to explode. Maybe when it explodes it will disappear completely?

Maybe after Nero destroyed half their starfleet, they started mining on Praxis overtime, to get together enough materials to build new ships? Causing it to blow up before schedule?