Nagging Questions Thread(Spoilers)

[ConRefit79]

The Apple.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vaal

 

[BritishSeaPower]

Why did McCoy think Khan's blood would revive the dead Tribble anyway? Was there a scene where Khan explains the Section 31 bombing that was cut that would tip him off?

Genetic Engineering is outlawed in the Federation, so should Bones expect to be getting a visit from the Starfleet Military Police?

 

[Amaris]

The Apple.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vaal

From the article:

Vaal was ultimately destroyed by Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise when it killed several crew members and was deemed an unacceptable threat. This action by Kirk may have been in direct violation of the Prime Directive, but Kirk felt justified that the humanoids on the planet needed to be freed from their false god in order to achieve their full potential.

 

[BillJ]

The Apple.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vaal

From the article:

Vaal was ultimately destroyed by Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise when it killed several crew members and was deemed an unacceptable threat. This action by Kirk may have been in direct violation of the Prime Directive, but Kirk felt justified that the humanoids on the planet needed to be freed from their false god in order to achieve their full potential.

Thing is, Kirk tried to leave and was stopped. Once there was a threat that was capable of pulling a starship out of orbit, I think the Prime Directive would take a backseat.

 

[Franklin]

Actually, I found it completely out of Kirk's character to blatantly cover up an act like that. Even this young Kirk.

As far as breaking the Prime Directive thing goes, I don't think its interpretation in this movie fit very well with the TOS version, anyway.

Remember Court Martial? Ensign Kirk doesn't cover for Finny who was a friend/mentor.

I cannot think of a single situation in TOS where they violated the PD unless it was accidental or there had been damage by prior interference they were trying to fix.

Yes. In "Court Martial" Kirk essentially did to Finney what Spock did to Kirk in STID (by being honest).

Kirk stretched rules and regulations, but yes, I don't think he ever blatantly broke a rule, the extraordinary incidents in TSFS notwithstanding (someone will provide an example showing I'm wrong, I'm sure ).

That's why I was disappointed in this Kirk. Besides, like I said in a post above, forging or lying in a log is a criminal offense in the real world. In the U.S., even a civilian captain can be taken to Federal Court to face charges for falsifying a log to cover something up.

Kirk's lucky he didn't face court martial and dismissal from Starfleet.

 

[Amaris]

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vaal

From the article:

Vaal was ultimately destroyed by Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise when it killed several crew members and was deemed an unacceptable threat. This action by Kirk may have been in direct violation of the Prime Directive, but Kirk felt justified that the humanoids on the planet needed to be freed from their false god in order to achieve their full potential.

Thing is, Kirk tried to leave and was stopped. Once there was a threat that was capable of pulling a starship out of orbit, I think the Prime Directive would take a backseat.

True, and I can see his justification, but Kirk was also of the opinion that the humanoids didn't need the god. I would agree with him, but that wasn't his call to make, Prime Directively speaking.

 

[BillJ]

Yes. In "Court Martial" Kirk essentially did to Finney what Spock did to Kirk in STID (by being honest).

Kirk stretched rules and regulations, but yes, I don't think he ever blatantly broke a rule, the extraordinary incidents in TSFS notwithstanding (someone will provide an example showing I'm wrong, I'm sure ).

That's why I was disappointed in this Kirk.

I'm disappointed in the character but not in the writers who decided to go down that path. This Jim Kirk was a shiftless-nobody who had no strong parental figure and then was suddenly thrust into the spotlight without going through the necessary growth to handle it. I kinda think his path, until he got in trouble, was similar to Gary Mitchell. He had something thrust upon him that he simply couldn't handle in a responsible manner.

 

[BillJ]

True, and I can see his justification, but Kirk was also of the opinion that the humanoids didn't need the god. I would agree with him, but that wasn't his call to make, Prime Directively speaking.

That the natives would have to go on without Vaal was just a bonus from Kirk's perspective.

 

[Franklin]

From the article:

Thing is, Kirk tried to leave and was stopped. Once there was a threat that was capable of pulling a starship out of orbit, I think the Prime Directive would take a backseat.

True, and I can see his justification, but Kirk was also of the opinion that the humanoids didn't need the god. I would agree with him, but that wasn't his call to make, Prime Directively speaking.

I don't recall from the episode, but was Vaal indigenous to the planet? I think its origins were unknown. But if he had been "installed" by an alien race thousands of years before, then the PD wouldn't apply because the culture had already been compromised. That would make getting rid of Vaal only a problematic decision and not a PD one.

 

[Franklin]

Yes. In "Court Martial" Kirk essentially did to Finney what Spock did to Kirk in STID (by being honest).

Kirk stretched rules and regulations, but yes, I don't think he ever blatantly broke a rule, the extraordinary incidents in TSFS notwithstanding (someone will provide an example showing I'm wrong, I'm sure ).

That's why I was disappointed in this Kirk.

I'm disappointed in the character but not in the writers who decided to go down that path. This Jim Kirk was a shiftless-nobody who had no strong parental figure and then was suddenly thrust into the spotlight without going through the necessary growth to handle it. I kinda think his path, until he got in trouble, was similar to Gary Mitchell. He had something thrust upon him that he simply couldn't handle in a responsible manner.

Good points. And I'll give kudos to the writers for how they handled this, too. They at least didn't try to pretend he'd grow into the position in just a year.

 

[Amaris]

True, and I can see his justification, but Kirk was also of the opinion that the humanoids didn't need the god. I would agree with him, but that wasn't his call to make, Prime Directively speaking.

That the natives would have to go on without Vaal was just a bonus from Kirk's perspective.

Yep. Kirk wasn't a fan of phoney baloney gods.

Thing is, Kirk tried to leave and was stopped. Once there was a threat that was capable of pulling a starship out of orbit, I think the Prime Directive would take a backseat.

True, and I can see his justification, but Kirk was also of the opinion that the humanoids didn't need the god. I would agree with him, but that wasn't his call to make, Prime Directively speaking.

I don't recall from the episode, but was Vaal indigenous to the planet? I think its origins were unknown. But if he had been "installed" by an alien race thousands of years before, then the PD wouldn't apply because the culture had already been compromised. That would make getting rid of Vaal only a problematic decision and not a PD one.

Val was old, but I'm not sure how old. Spock himself, though, is the one that says by interfering with their culture, Kirk will be breaking the Prime Directive.

 

[sj4iy]

Actually, I found it completely out of Kirk's character to blatantly cover up an act like that. Even this young Kirk.

As far as breaking the Prime Directive thing goes, I don't think its interpretation in this movie fit very well with the TOS version, anyway.

Remember Court Martial? Ensign Kirk doesn't cover for Finny who was a friend/mentor.

I cannot think of a single situation in TOS where they violated the PD unless it was accidental or there had been damage by prior interference they were trying to fix.

That's because he always found a convenient way around it. He was never really faced with having a decision of supporting the Prime Directive or letting his friends die. I like that they confronted it directly in this movie.

 

[AbramsIsSatan]

It's Damon Lindelof.

Try not to dig too deep.

 

[PsychoPere]

I go with filing the false report. There is no excuse for that whatsoever. In the real world, it's a crime for a captain to falsify his log. You also can have someone captaining a starship that you can't trust. [...]

Reading your post convinced me that I underestimated the importance of filing a false report, and possibly overestimated the importance of violating the Prime Directive.

Why would Marcus send Kirk after Khan if he wants an excuse to start a war? Right now he is a hot head he will bends regs. Just the kind of person he would want to fight the war. More mature captains would be more likely to question Marcus' push for war.

On the contrary: Any seasoned captain likely would've questioned the orders Marcus gave Kirk to use seemingly-experimental, entirely-unknown torpedoes at the Klingon homeworld in order to kill a wanted fugitive without due process. Kirk was the logical choice to send, precisely because he is a hothead who would bend regulations. Marcus needed the seasoned warriors to wage war, not to instigate one.

Why did McCoy think Khan's blood would revive the dead Tribble anyway? Was there a scene where Khan explains the Section 31 bombing that was cut that would tip him off?

I don't recall exactly now, but I thought McCoy had ran some tests on the blood prior to using it on the tribble. Testing with the tribble was simply another experiment.

I don't think he'd need to worry about being placed under arrest for using the blood, either. McCoy wasn't the one who performed any genetic engineering, for one. And, of course, he used it to revive a hero of the Federation, so even if there was a charge to be leveled, I'd imagine he'd be granted immunity based on that alone.

 

[ConRefit79]

I don't recall from the episode, but was Vaal indigenous to the planet? I think its origins were unknown. But if he had been "installed" by an alien race thousands of years before, then the PD wouldn't apply because the culture had already been compromised. That would make getting rid of Vaal only a problematic decision and not a PD one.

My thoughts exactly. I agree he has helped when their has been prior contamination by Feds or others. But I don't remember where he blatantly violated the PD because he felt like saving or changing a primitive race.

 

[ConRefit79]

I don't recall exactly now, but I thought McCoy had ran some tests on the blood prior to using it on the tribble. Testing with the tribble was simply another experiment..

A rat would make more sense. Tribbles are completely alien earth. The tribble was simply for fans. And I guess now they've encountered the trader who was selling them. Because in TOS, they never saw them before DS K7.

 

[BillJ]

On the contrary: Any seasoned captain likely would've questioned the orders Marcus gave Kirk to use seemingly-experimental, entirely-unknown torpedoes at the Klingon homeworld in order to kill a wanted fugitive without due process. Kirk was the logical choice to send, precisely because he is a hothead who would bend regulations. Marcus needed the seasoned warriors to wage war, not to instigate one.

Kirk was logical to send because he desperately wanted his command back and was less likely (in Marcus' mind) to deviate from those orders.

 

[Shilliam Watner]

I have a question that has been bothering me. Scotty stunned Khan with one shot and knocked him unconscious on the bridge of the Vengeance but Uhura popped him about 5 times on stun and he didn't drop. What gives?

 

[PsychoPere]

Kirk was logical to send because he desperately wanted his command back and was less likely (in Marcus' mind) to deviate from those orders.

That too!

Scotty stunned Khan with one shot and knocked him unconscious on the bridge of the Vengeance but Uhura popped him about 5 times on stun and he didn't drop. What gives?

Scotty may have had the element of surprise (Khan may not have been expecting to be "betrayed" at that time), or - and this is probably more likely - Khan was playing everyone by pretending to be stunned.

Even if he wasn't pretending, perhaps the additional rage and adrenaline coursing through him during his fight with Spock was enough to fight off the effects of Uhura's attempts to stun him.

 

[BillJ]

...perhaps the additional rage and adrenaline coursing through him during his fight with Spock was enough to fight off the effects of Uhura's attempts to stun him.

This was my thinking as well.