Mythbusters Tonight

[Roger Wilco]

As far as *I* know the Moon Hoaxers feel that humans have never been to the moon and that it is impossible to even go there, because of the Van Allen Radiation Belt.

The bouncing lasers off equipment left behind on the moon, for me, prooves little because as far as *I* know no one has made the claim that no human equipment has been left on the moon just that man himself, in person, has never been there.

Alright, maybe I'm wrong, and I don't really care much about that particular conspiracy theory anyway.
And fundamentally the thing that makes it obvious to me that the landing wasn't faked, is that the logistics, the sheer scope of the work that has to be put into making the fake work, and the absolute perfection it has to be executed in to make it seem realistic to a worldwide audience on live television, etc., just doesn't seem doable to me.

 

[Trekker4747]

Alright, maybe I'm wrong, and I don't really care much about that particular conspiracy theory anyway.
And fundamentally the thing that makes it obvious to me that the landing wasn't faked, is that the logistics, the sheer scope of the work that has to be put into making the fake work, and the absolute perfection it has to be executed in to make it seem realistic to a worldwide audience on live television, etc., just doesn't seem doable to me.

Agreed. TV production in the late 60s wasn't sophisticated enough to produce such a hoax. Another common "hoax" the theorists employ (and I thought the Mythbusters were going to do this one too) is that there's no stars in the background in any of the photos. Because NASA couldn't replicate them on set in a "realistic manner" so they just ommitted them.

Aparently the Moon Hoaxers never heard of shutter speeds and of taking pictures of objects on a brightly lit enviroment and not of objects that are comparitively dim in the sky.

 

[Neroon]

That's an area where someone who is into astrophotgraphy could help out. Depending upon the object being photographed and the particular area of the spectrum used, it takes varyign amounts of time to collect the photons to produce the picture. The astronauts in such early stages of exploration would never have the required amount of time to take pictures of stars in their relative dimness.

I'm curious as to the motivation for these hoax theorists. Are they in it for the sheer ego of debunking something so iconic? Are they paranoid at what the government is doing in general? What is it?

 

[Trekker4747]

Stupidity.

The government colaborated with dozens if not hundreds of people and their families to put together this massive hoax to fool the people of the world into believing we landed on The Moon before the Russians.

They faked the launch of the Saturn V, had it launch and go somewhere where it could not be observed by people with telescopes on Earth (who may of found it in orbit) They put together a massive and elaborate set that would rival even TODAY'S special effects limits to perpetuate this hoax. They created rock and "soil" samples for scientists to analyze for decades and for school children to ooh and ahh over behind museum glass.

And everyone involved in this hoax has kept quiet about it for 40 years.

Comeon! Our Government couldn't even break into an office without causing a shit-storm of torment raining down on them.

 

[Gertch]

They get to do the coolest stuff. Just take that plane ride for example! That must have been great.

Excellent episode.

 

[backstept]

seriously . . . everything the 'conspiracy theory' moon landing myth is based on is common sense . . . pure common sense

light bouncing, gravity, air resistance etc . . .

Which just proves that common sense is frequently wrong. Especially when applied to circumstances outside of common experience.

no I think my phrasing was a bit loose
what I meant was that by using common sense it's extremely obvious that we actually went to the moon, and the conspiracy theorists just don't see what's right in front of their eyes

 

[Christopher]

Another common "hoax" the theorists employ (and I thought the Mythbusters were going to do this one too) is that there's no stars in the background in any of the photos.

During the show, Discovery flashed up one of their banners saying that viewers could explore this question online. It was linked to something called HowStuffWorks, I think.

Meanwhile, the Discovery website include a cut scene of Kari recreating the famous hammer/feather drop that shows all objects fall at the same rate in vacuum. They did this as a visual confirmation that the flag and footprint tests were actually in a vacuum, but it got cut for time from the US version. I wonder how the conspiracy nuts deal with this one. Do they have some theory for how it was faked (like it's a heavy fake feather), or do they just ignore it?

I'm curious as to the motivation for these hoax theorists. Are they in it for the sheer ego of debunking something so iconic? Are they paranoid at what the government is doing in general? What is it?

I guess some people just can't accept the reality of anything outside their narrow experience. And some people can't believe that humans are capable of doing the extraordinary.

And I figure that for people who are ignorant about how the world works, and who've never learned how to reason and figure it out, reality is a constant mystery, a confusing, inexplicable thing that frightens them. So they imagine themselves surrounded by dark secrets and menacing forces. In the past, they imagined demons and monsters lurking in the woods; now it's cabals and conspirators within the government.

 

[Nedersong]

That's an area where someone who is into astrophotgraphy could help out. Depending upon the object being photographed and the particular area of the spectrum used, it takes varyign amounts of time to collect the photons to produce the picture. The astronauts in such early stages of exploration would never have the required amount of time to take pictures of stars in their relative dimness.

I'm curious as to the motivation for these hoax theorists. Are they in it for the sheer ego of debunking something so iconic? Are they paranoid at what the government is doing in general? What is it?

I've personally come to believe that it is out of hatred of authority. They hate authority so much they are completely incapable of anything else.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Conspiracy nuts are fun, I must say. Now that should be identified as a distinct mental illness. Because it's never just the moon landing hoax - their whole realities are warped through this bizarre mindset. No, NASA never went to the moon, but THEY did, they were brought there by reptilian aliens, ass-probed of course, and shown the breeding stock of human cattle before being returned to a Texaco gas station at 3am. Why a Texaco station? It's all tied together!!! The gas station attendant is clearly a reptilian. But if I keep a blessed mineral stone stuck up my ass, then they have to appear human. WE WILL ESCAPE

 

[Nedersong]

Of course we could consider that these people are just out to discredit America in any way shape or for they possibly can.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Problem I had with one is the man going up the latter, which conspiracists claim he'd be dark, but Mythbusters showed he'd be lit up by sand. Problem is, the real photo has the man lit substansially more, and his suit has shadows in areas I dont' think would be caused if the light was reflecting off the surface.

 

[Gibraltar]

Problem I had with one is the man going up the latter, which conspiracists claim he'd be dark, but Mythbusters showed he'd be lit up by sand. Problem is, the real photo has the man lit substansially more, and his suit has shadows in areas I dont' think would be caused if the light was reflecting off the surface.

It's the difference in light quality and quantity between a lamp and our solar system's star, in conjunction with the regolith albedo.

 

[BenRoethig]

I'm curious as to the motivation for these hoax theorists. Are they in it for the sheer ego of debunking something so iconic? Are they paranoid at what the government is doing in general? What is it?

Its usually a combination cynicism, paranoia, and an inflexible black and white world view as well as a need to feel superior or to know something that others don't.

 

[Christopher]

Of course we could consider that these people are just out to discredit America in any way shape or for they possibly can.

That suggestion's a little paranoid in itself, though, isn't it? It's more that they don't trust the government or anyone in authority. It's not like the conspiracy theorists are themselves conspiring to make America look bad.

Problem I had with one is the man going up the latter, which conspiracists claim he'd be dark, but Mythbusters showed he'd be lit up by sand. Problem is, the real photo has the man lit substansially more, and his suit has shadows in areas I dont' think would be caused if the light was reflecting off the surface.

Minor differences easily explained by variations in the nature of the light, the camera exposure, the scale, the specific conditions, etc. The point is that Adam & Jamie busted the specific claim that the astronaut would've been in complete darkness.

Remember that the surface in question wasn't just directly beneath the astronaut, but stretching out for miles and miles all around, possibly with nearby hills or rises. Sunlight could've been getting reflected from any number of different angles. And with no atmosphere to absorb and scatter it, the light would've been more intense and vivid, the shadows sharper.

 

[Nedersong]

That suggestion's a little paranoid in itself, though, isn't it? It's more that they don't trust the government or anyone in authority. It's not like the conspiracy theorists are themselves conspiring to make America look bad.

Possibly. But it's not without any precedence. After all, Socialists and Communist do bash capitalism and any aspect of America they can.

And no, I'm not saying that these theorists are socialist and communists, just that it's a possibility that they just may be out to discredit America out of their hatred of authority.

 

[Gibraltar]

That suggestion's a little paranoid in itself, though, isn't it? It's more that they don't trust the government or anyone in authority. It's not like the conspiracy theorists are themselves conspiring to make America look bad.

Possibly. But it's not without any precedence. After all, Socialists and Communist do bash capitalism and any aspect of America they can.

And no, I'm not saying that these theorists are socialist and communists, just that it's a possibility that they just may be out to discredit America out of their hatred of authority.

Sometimes a nut is just a nut.

 

[Christopher]

Possibly. But it's not without any precedence. After all, Socialists and Communist do bash capitalism and any aspect of America they can.

Okay, you're definitely buying into some paranoid myths there. And some strangely outdated ones. What is this, the 1950s? I thought the fashionable xenophobic hysteria these days was toward Muslims, not socialists.

 

[Nedersong]

Sorry to say it is still alive and well. That is, the constant criticism of America by socialists and communists. It does not end. You can see it on several political discussion boards. For example, over at Protest Warrior, one person who calls himself a socialist is constantly bemoaning that Capitalism is a failure. If you look for it you will see it. It happens.

So you see, sometimes there is a reason to be a little bit paranoid after all.

 

[Nomad]

It's not necessary a matter of being anti-American as it is being anti-authority. Those who believe astronauts didn't go to the moon (and I don't recall the Soviets, our greatest nemesis in the space race, ever making that claim), also likely believe that aliens landed at Roswell, that The DiVinci Code is gospel truth, and that Bush planned 9/11. They go on the theory that because those in authority have been proven to sometimes lie, they must always be lying. It may also make them feel important in some way, that they see what others can't.

 

[Ryan]

TV production in the late 60s wasn't sophisticated enough to produce such a hoax.

It's amazing how rarely this gets pointed out. Just watch 2001. It had state-of-the-art SFX at the time and its moon walk isn't even close to the real one just a year later. Even modern SFX like in From The Earth To The Moon can't duplicate moon gravity.