dw, in case you haven't read the whole thread (and who could blame you?), most here don't disagree with some of the points 3DM raised, it's how he said them, with bile and malice aforethought. But I'm not going to go all over that again.
He said a couple of weeks ago that his 'review' would change people's minds about the movie, that they'd see it for what it is, or something.
No, I didn't.
He actually said his review will change people's minds? What a laugh.
No, I didn't.
....
You gonna tell Romulans how to build their ships???
No, I didn't, but then, reading seems to be difficult.
The scene was not written as how he got into the computer system. Quite the contrary, even the hearing afterward isn't written that way. Pike directly asked, how Kirk beat Spock's Kabayashi Maru test. Not how he circumvented your security. Not how did he manage to cheat. Not how did he manage to reprogram the scenario.
As a result, this isn't a simple nit, this a symptom of the horrible writing, it is the same with how Uhura got herself on the Enterprise and just about every character interaction. It is just weak empty writing, that either requires you to rewrite the dialogue or the entire scene in your head, or the characters are total buffoons.
Do you actually want every single thing spelled out to you? The implications are completely obvious in this scene that Kirk has done something untoward to the simulation, and the simulation runs with computers, so he has presumably reprogrammed the computer. Did we really need someone going "Cadet Kirk must have reprogrammed the computer in order to make the Klingons' shields drop at precisely the right moment!" in order to work out what was going on? We don't
need to know
how he did it, we just need to know that he did. I believe "show don't tell" is still one of the major tenets of dramatic writing?
Of COURSE he cheated; THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! It is bloody obvious he cheated. I understood this easily. The problem is not that VIEWERS wouldn't understand, I would say even the most retarded viewers would understand this. The problem is that the CHARACTERS don't understand this. That makes the CHARACTERS more stupid than the most retarded of viewers. AND THAT is the problem.
And reading seems to be difficult these days.
The allegation isn't even true...the scene WAS written, maybe even filmed, but didn't make the final cut...
I know - but my point was that the final cut works fine without that scene as written. It wouldn't have been bad to include it, but it's certainly not necessary.
They'd require learning of the planet they were going to use in the system, but why look up information on a planet you weren't even going to get near to? After this event, it may very well be mandatory to do so (in fact it may even have been mandatory to do so, but a lot of rules and regulations, sometimes rightly, sometimes sadly, aren't followed by the people doing a job.)
I thoroughly agree with you on this point, but this "may very well", "sometimes rules aren't followed" etc etc is EXACTLY the kind of leeway that the intelligent film-goer can give a movie that doesn't fill in all the gaps in the script, but which you are abjectly refusing to grant to the latest film. Perhaps Trek XI does require more handwaving than Khan, but it's a more complicated story, and frankly you're coming across as a little hypocritical here.
XI managed to just about double the amount with plotholes allowed, twice as large as you're allowed, in one, 4 minute scene. And virtually every other scene is rife with them as well.
Which scene is this?
1. XI is not a more complicated story.
2. With Star Trek II there requires no handwaving. The whole point was pretty much made clear from the start. At best it would require a tiny pinch, a blink of an eye.
3. On top it requiring far less, it would be about the only thing and maybe one or two more where you similarly have to make a blink.
4. Trek XI had easily five times as many plotholes IN JUST ONE SCENE than II had in the entire movie. On top of that, the plotholes in XI are MASSIVE. It's reducing entire species to utter idiots and buffoons. Main characters to the same, universe breaking non-existence of subspace sensors, Sulu who looks like an idiot because forgot to turn something off; and all for a scene that has no point, because the whole point of the scene is for Kirk to convinced the captain to not walk straight into "the trap", but once convincing the captain has been achieved, they're at Vulcan, Narada and "the trap" anyway, and promptly the Narada doesn't destroy the ship, making nothing but plotholes twice over usesless and pointless.
--> Whatever little flubs there are in STII that require no more than a blink, it's actually there to get the story going; in XI they have no point whatsoever.
But worse than that, it isn't just plotholes, it's completely horrible non-sensical writing.
I mentioned this in the review; logical Spock who wouldn't look at a woman unless under the influence of the Pon Farr or mind-altering substances; is in a relationship not only with a woman, but with his STUDENT. This is character-development on a scale of the grand-canyon as upposed to grain of sand. It is devastatingly massive. This is what you write entire movies and novels about. It deserved - no REQUIRED, at the very least a third of a movie. Yet, how did it come about?
:snap: Writers' fiat.
It is mind-boggingly bad writing. It would be bad enough to do to a similar character in some piece of shit action movie that was never more than quick action, it's bad enough to do to a secondary character; but this is STAR TREK, and Spock is one of the two MAIN characters.
