My Star Trek review
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
The scene was not written as how he got into the computer system. Quite the contrary, even the hearing afterward isn't written that way. Pike directly asked, how Kirk beat Spock's Kabayashi Maru test. Not how he circumvented your security. Not how did he manage to cheat. Not how did he manage to reprogram the scenario.
As a result, this isn't a simple nit, this a symptom of the horrible writing, it is the same with how Uhura got herself on the Enterprise and just about every character interaction. It is just weak empty writing, that either requires you to rewrite the dialogue or the entire scene in your head, or the characters are total buffoons.
He was unconscious the entire time! He just woke up. First thing he heard was Checkov's announcement. And the thing is; it could have been fixed easily with Kirk first asking the computer if Uhura is on board, but they couldn't be bothered with 2 extra seconds; or even have the computer answer affirmative and where in one answer to his question.
Again; this isn't a nitpick; this a plothole, once again the symptom of the horrible writing. Hotch potch put together without a single thought to it, beyond; how can we make Kirk look cool and how do we get to the next explosion scene?
This is not a plothole at all. It is a system that got changed by some event Starfleet didn't know about. They can't monitor every solar system 24/7, you know. That's probably what the Scientific Mission was about when they noticed something wrong. That does not mean you know WHAT went wrong, HOW exactly the system is made up now, and whether the planets are even still in the same orbits.
They did know Khan was in the system, they didn't know he wa on that planet because something changed the solar system. And how the hell does Khan want to test the Genesis device, when he doesn't know anything about it, until after he hijacks the Reliant.
Starfleet didn't send a ship with kids. Kirk sent a ship with kids. Besides which, the kids were obviously ready; they were undoubtedly about to graduate. The kids performed perfectly.
In a fictitious alternate reality in which you had a smidgeon of credibility left, you just threw it out the window.
okay. I definitely need to watch it again.
same as above. But again, he may just have been guessing. No biggie.
One moment.
They were on the fifth planet and thought they were on the sixth! That doesn't make sense unless they MISCOUNTED the planets.
You may say that they knew there was a disaster in the system and they just assumed Ceti Alpha V had been destroyed. But wouldn't their future computers be able to calculate what actually happened? Wouldn't the old data show them it couldn't be Ceti Alpha VI? Kirk was in that system, remember. And he pobably wouldn't have gone there if the system was not known even before that. But what can you do when your bridge is made of christmas lights?
No, I meant did they plan on trying the device in the system even if Khan was still there? Of course if you assume they thought Khan was dead
However why does Chekov then need a few seconds to make sense of his memory of the name "Botany Bay". IIt's as though he'd not even thought about Khan before entering that system. Wouldn't a mission like that require learning the basics of the system beforehand or at least check the computer data?
Uhh...yes they did. But how come Starfleet doesn't send any more forces, but just an outdated training ship? For all they know the Rommies are out to steal it.
But it seems Kirk and the E are alone in this. Do they know Kirk has a hero shield or does Kirk run Starfleet?
If the E just happened to be the closest ship that would be one of those ridiculous coincidences
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No, no he did not. Pike was not in the simulator control room. That was an unnamed starfleet officer to whom you refer. Dare I suggest that perhaps you weren't paying close attention to detail?
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Ok, before I make my general comments, I want to address how Kirk got into the scenario computer:
The issue WAS addressed by the screenplay, and the scene either wound up not being filmed or was but cut for length, as it appears in the novelization.
The key is the Orion cadet Galia (sp?). She worked in the Academy Computer Center. Kirk seduced her to gain an "in". During the test, she received a 23rd century email from him. When she opened it, it uploaded Kirk's virus/patch that reprogrammed the simulator.
Now, as to 3dM's general review.
First, a disclaimer: I liked the movie.
However, that does not mean I thought it was perfect. The review was WAY over the top in terms of invective and hyperbole, but it made some basic points I have a hard time not agreeing with.
1) The film relies heavily on "coincidence" and plot-driven thinking in order to get everyone "where they need to be". It strained credibility at times.
2) There were two places where the film DEFINITELY broke the lines of professional ethics: Spock/Uhura as teacher/student, and Scotty conducting an experimental transporter procedure with a life form just "to prove a point".
3) The bridges with no rails and water on the floors in parts of Narada made no sense.
4) Engineering...'nuff said.
5) Lens flares...also 'nuff said.
6) Action film editing...see 4&5.
The issue WAS addressed by the screenplay, and the scene either wound up not being filmed or was but cut for length, as it appears in the novelization.
The key is the Orion cadet Galia (sp?). She worked in the Academy Computer Center. Kirk seduced her to gain an "in". During the test, she received a 23rd century email from him. When she opened it, it uploaded Kirk's virus/patch that reprogrammed the simulator.
Now, as to 3dM's general review.
First, a disclaimer: I liked the movie.
However, that does not mean I thought it was perfect. The review was WAY over the top in terms of invective and hyperbole, but it made some basic points I have a hard time not agreeing with.
1) The film relies heavily on "coincidence" and plot-driven thinking in order to get everyone "where they need to be". It strained credibility at times.
2) There were two places where the film DEFINITELY broke the lines of professional ethics: Spock/Uhura as teacher/student, and Scotty conducting an experimental transporter procedure with a life form just "to prove a point".
3) The bridges with no rails and water on the floors in parts of Narada made no sense.
4) Engineering...'nuff said.
5) Lens flares...also 'nuff said.
6) Action film editing...see 4&5.
No, it's not. It's about making Paramount money. So the movie has done it's job. This Biblical Star Trek you're talking about never existed. Not since TMP anyway. You're romanticizing the past. You're like a Republican and The 50's or a Democrat and the 60's.
If you had your way a brainless Spock would be hanging out with The Space Hippies while Kirk visited yet another themed planet(how about a Pirate planet this time? or better yet, A NINJA PLANET!?) while he outwits some mentally retarded "God" who looks just like a generic human with a bad fake bake for two hours. All the while exciting, dramatic music plays in the background to disguise how nothing is really going on. Becuase a Spock and McCoy conversation about interstellar diplomacy always keeps people on the edge of their seats.
So fuck that shit. I'll take the lens flares, plot holes, explosions and all over that anyday.
So what you end up with is a mindless action movie that doesn't differentiate itself from any of the other movie offerings.
Explosions and action sequences have it's place but at the same time, the storyline needs to be creative, original and thought provoking. I don't think that would be too much to ask for the sequel.
1. Not really, you are applying the fact we know they meet for an origin story as coincidence. Also it was explained that there was a similar "convergence" in time much like :"City on the Edge of Forever", to explain the onscreen events.
2. Yes, but Scotty broke the rules in STIV, Kirk broke the rules in STII, III, IV, V, and VI, Spock in ST IV, STVI. Its not really new. I'm not upset over Spock-Uhura, that sort of thing DOES in fact happen all the time.
3. Who needs rails?? Rails are technically useless in star travel anyway.
4. I didn't like engineering, but it didn't really seem out of place, nor did it bother me in viewing/enjoying the movie. I would prefer seeing a new set for the sequel.
5. I barely noticed them on the first viewing...that usually means the on screen story is compelling enough not to worry about distractions. However, though I HOPE they continue to have them in the sequel, they may want to reduce them by 50% or so.
6. Both future TV shows and the movie would do well to continue the faster pacing of modern visual media...aka CSI, Fringe, etc. I think the "modern" pacing was a major step forward...and I have a pretty good attenton span still.
RAMA
dw, in case you haven't read the whole thread (and who could blame you?), most here don't disagree with some of the points 3DM raised, it's how he said them, with bile and malice aforethought. But I'm not going to go all over that again.
He said a couple of weeks ago that his 'review' would change people's minds about the movie, that they'd see it for what it is, or something.
I think I can use the world FAIL without fear of contradiction - I don't think ANYONE has changed their minds because if it. Indeed, it may have hardened attitudes for it.
He said a couple of weeks ago that his 'review' would change people's minds about the movie, that they'd see it for what it is, or something.
I think I can use the world FAIL without fear of contradiction - I don't think ANYONE has changed their minds because if it. Indeed, it may have hardened attitudes for it.
I wouldn't call Star Trek a mindless action movie, it took some creative writing to reboot the franchise and have it appeal to both hardcore fans and the unwashed masses. It was the movie that needed to be made to get Trek to shed its 43 year old crutch and get back on it's feet. Now that the franchise is re-established it can start creating it's own mythos with new and old fans alike.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
That's a fair point...but you can stretch that too thin, I think the more "coincidences" you have to invoke.
None of those instances involved conducting a dangerous experiment on a defenseless lifeform "just to prove a point".
No sane designer would EVER not include safety features such as rails.
There was one running around in the Art forum I think that I liked a great deal.
At a MINIMUM.
What is the point of building all those way cool sets and models if you are going to throw the camera all over the place so violently you can't SEE any of it on the finished film?
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Point.
It didn't change my mind about the movie. It didn't harden my attitude for it. It did make me shake my head in disbelief and laugh a lot. Combined with his other responses about not seeing plot holes in other movies i'm convinced that he is either taking the piss or he is so far down the rabbit hole that he will continue to live his delusional fantasy until the end of his days.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
We're talking about all the walkways in the Narada, the ones everyone kept jumping from one to another in the big fight scene.
....
You gonna tell Romulans how to build their ships???
You gonna tell Romulans how to build their ships???
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