My Gripes with STID!

[Ssosmcin]

My honest to Zod only real gripes with STID are the overload of fan service; mirroring TWOK to such a degree instead of taking bits of lore and doing a really interesting and truly different spin on them (more different than simply swapping who yells "Khan" and who dies). Also, the whole "frat boy" feel of the crew at times. Mostly Kirk, who really comes off like a horny college kid with a new car ("Spock! That's deep spaaaaaaace!!" "Hello ladieeees!"). Maybe it's just Chris Pine. I'm hopeful that STID represented growth and that some maturity will result brining him closer to the more seasoned man we met in 1966.

Other than that, STID was huge fun. I liked it overall more than 2009.

 

[Trekkin]

That picture shouldn't have made me sad, but it kinda did. It's like watching Space Seed and realising nearly all the young and healthy main players in that are now gone.

But...Uhura's Klingon was mangled? What on earth does that make Lloyd's go at it? And does the Klingon dictionary even count as canon anyway? I thought it was more like the rest of the writers guide/manuals/bibles - as long as it didn't contradict previous screen appearences, they could change anything they felt like without even vaguely worrying about 'doing it wrong.'

 

[F. King Daniel]

-the Klingon. Uhura's pronunciation hurt.

With that being said ... Zoe Saldana's Klingon pronunciation is excellent! She had two Klingon language coaches, and the one who coached her when reading the lines that were used in the final cut was none less than Marc Okrand, the creator of the language himself.

This says it all. Thank you.

 

[IrishNero]

I don't understand the whole Klingon pronunciation thing. It's a fictional language spoken by a fictional species. The only persons who could discern good pronunciation would be native speakers; of whom there are none. But, assuming that the creator of the language would be the best judge, I hope that since he was involved in Zoe Saldana's coaching that he at least screened the pronunciation of the Klingon crew member during filming and during post-production.

This reminds me of an actual incident: When I was in the military stationed in Korea, I had a young friend who asked me to go downtown to help him to buy a type of blanket that was only found in Korea at the time. When I told him I was busy, he pleaded with me again; saying that he couldn't speak the language (I had a fair grasp on Korean at the time). I responded by saying that he should learn to speak some Korean. His response: "I can't learn that crap!"

This made me laugh. He spoke fluent Klingon. Presumably, he had to spend many hours mastering a fictional language that was probably spoken by less than a handful of people at the time but wouldn't devote 5 minutes to learn any portion of actual language spoken by about 100 million non-fictional, living, breathing persons who are actually walking the face of the Earth. As a ST fan myself, I was cool with the idea that someone would devote time to learning Klingon. I just thought it to be funny that someone would do so while eschewing the virtues and benefits of learning a real-world language.

I'm sure I'll get blasted by somebody on this board for saying that but it just seemed funny to me at the time...

 

[loghaD]

I don't understand the whole Klingon pronunciation thing. It's a fictional language spoken by a fictional species. The only persons who could discern good pronunciation would be native speakers; of whom there are none.

Well, it's really not that different from keeping track of fictional history. If a script writer was to have Spock mention that "SarghHoS served as the Klingon Empire's ambassador to the Federation until 2052, when he was suspended for murdering a Talaxian envoy.", most viewers wouldn't bat an eye, but fans who know their Trek history would be in an uproar about all of the implied historical inconsistencies.

Likewise, people who use Klingon on a regular basis can tell the difference between good and bad Klingon dialogue.
...and from what I've seen, the verdict among Klingon-speakers is almost unanimously to Saldana's benefit.

But, assuming that the creator of the language would be the best judge, I hope that since he was involved in Zoe Saldana's coaching that he at least screened the pronunciation of the Klingon crew member during filming and during post-production.

As I recall, the Klingon had received prior Klingon language coaching while on set, but none what-so-ever when recording new lines in sound studio. He did, however, have a recording to work with.

 

[IrishNero]

I humbly bow to your knowledge regarding the use of the Klingon language. I've never been more than a broad-stroke guy when it comes to ST canon as it just doesn't interest me. Oh, I'm as knowledgeable as the next guy when it comes to characters and such, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell you if a uniform badge was wrong for a particular uniform and I certainly wouldn't be able to say if someone's Klingon language skills were off. I'm just not that much into details.

 

[loghaD]

I humbly bow to your knowledge regarding the use of the Klingon language. I've never been more than a broad-stroke guy when it comes to ST canon as it just doesn't interest me. Oh, I'm as knowledgeable as the next guy when it comes to characters and such, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell you if a uniform badge was wrong for a particular uniform and I certainly wouldn't be able to say if someone's Klingon language skills were off. I'm just not that much into details.

Always been more of minutiae guy, myself; I started studying Klingon and reading historical articles on Memory Alpha before even watching my first episode of Star Trek.

However, while I enjoy reading up on that stuff, I don't think of lore-consistency it as a primary grading criterion; I can enjoy an episode, and then enjoy bickering about grammatical mistakes or continuity errors on a forum, and see no contradiction between the two.

 

[IrishNero]

You're Spock and I'm Kirk. You're a little bit country and I'm a little bit rock and roll.

 

[JWPlatt]

The Klingon language in the real world has been devolving in popular culture from something impressive to something amusing for a while now. But it is nice to have a culture fleshed out to such a degree in most fiction.

 

[IrishNero]

I honestly didn't know that the Klingon language was a part of the popular culture yet. I need to get out more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I honestly didn't know that the Klingon language was a part of the popular culture yet. I need to get out more.

It's mostly a punchline in "trekkies are weird" jokes.

 

[Makarov]

Dothraki is also pretty popular right now and could overtake Klingon as the number one fictional language.

 

[IrishNero]

Oh well, then that's a relief.

 

[loghaD]

The Klingon language in the real world has been devolving in popular culture from something impressive to something amusing for a while now. But it is nice to have a culture fleshed out to such a degree in most fiction.

My understanding was that it had gone from being the object of great mockery to being the object of great disinterest.

 

[shapeshifter]

Concerning Gripe 47A: Enterprise Design, Paragraph B: Enterprise Underwater, Sub-Paragraph C: Rising Up And Through Atmosphere...

That scene actually makes me appreciate the new design more than ever. It somehow looks better surrounded by terrestrial elements than it does hanging in empty space.

 

[IrishNero]

That scene actually makes me appreciate the new design more than ever. It somehow looks better surrounded by terrestrial elements than it does hanging in empty space.

As I see it, that's the real reason Kirk chose to ignore the Prime Directive.

 

[BillJ]

That scene actually makes me appreciate the new design more than ever. It somehow looks better surrounded by terrestrial elements than it does hanging in empty space.

As I see it, that's the real reason Kirk chose to ignore the Prime Directive.

Wanted to show off his bitchin' ride to the natives!

 

[Kemaiku]

It's still completely made up, and the first time Klingons have appeared in the new universe, things change.

 

[Jeyl]

That scene actually makes me appreciate the new design more than ever. It somehow looks better surrounded by terrestrial elements than it does hanging in empty space.

So the design works because it fails?

 

[Kemaiku]

That scene actually makes me appreciate the new design more than ever. It somehow looks better surrounded by terrestrial elements than it does hanging in empty space.

There was something about her being lit by sunlight that made the design look even better, realistic even.

Probably more detail being brought out by more even lighting on the model, or just little things like the seaweed rolling off the saucer or the water still falling away that gave a more immersive feel.

There's a lot to love about the opening of the film.