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My gripes with Asian casting and character naming in Paramount+ Trek

valkyrie013 said:
From what was posted on Robert Hewitt Wolfe, is that they tried to do some diversity, it just back then, they didn't get any pushback on diversity like now. Progress times times sometimes, but we can't judge the past by current standards.
I remember watching 60's mission impossible, and they had Lenonard Nimoy play an Asian character! They just didn't care at all back then. ( Think also James Bond, Done the same with Sean Connery) So, am happy its trending to being fixed, but its not there yet.
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I guarantee there were plenty of Asian Americans back then that did care. Same with Indigenous Peoples when they saw someone non-native 'dressed up' as one of them on countless tv shows and movies. Black Face went over well for the white audiences before that. I'm sure people of African descent didn't care for that at all.

So when I read your sentence of "They just didn't care at all back then" I interpret 'they' as white people, the powers that be, etc...Non-white folks did care. There's a quick and powerful scene at the beginning of Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. Lee is on a date with future wife Linda and they are watching Breakfast At Tiffany's, a Hollywood classic. I'm sure the general white audience found this particular clip funny and at the very least not objectionable. But to someone different....

https://criticalmediaproject.org/dragon-the-bruce-lee-story-breakfast-at-tiffanys/

I agree with your top portion about not getting any pushback back then but we also have to understand that issue within historical/cultural context of racial dynamics. Non-white folks barely had any voice back then.
 
@Nombrecomun
It is what I meant, the people in charge, producers etc.didn't see it as a problem. Of course it IS a problem, resulting in miss opportunities for "american minority" actors and actresses.
In general, its better now, but its still not fixed. Just recently a british person was cast as an asian comic character in Hellboy, the actor bowed out when he learned the comic was asian, and they did cast an asian. ( movie still sucked donkey balls though)
Still room to get better.
 
Laura Cynthia Chambers said:
Some Western names carry with them a certain sound that Eastern names haven't acquired yet. So a character named Donfried Westergarth the Seventh sounds aristocratic to just about everyone, while Nick Jones sounds down-to-Earth and friendly, to name just a couple of examples.

Eastern names don't carry the same rich and poor/personality/physical appearance ideas on them, at least to the wide majority of folks, unless they know what the name means. In the past, an Asian or Indian, etc, name carried connotations of their own - mysterious, exotic, foreign, sometimes imposing.
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I'm not sure what to say here except that you simply may not be familiar/exposed to these Asian cultures you're talking about.

I'll give you an 'out' in that when you say "wide majority of folks" you might be meaning to say Western folks and/or white folks. That would be certainly more accurate.

Many Asian names(India is Asia too) do carry meaning. Whether they have the same meaning today as they did in the past depends on location, culture, generation, etc... "Smith" meant something centuries ago in English-speaking countries. It doesn't mean much today. No one assumes John Smith's profession based on his surname. We understand that perhaps somewhere down the road 'Smith' may have had an ancestor who worked as such. Maybe.

In contrast, in some parts of Indonesia the name 'Mas' means 'elder brother'. There are specific names to denote birth order. Within that culture someone named 'Mas' already confers a lot of information about who he is.

In China, a family name belongs to one of the 56 ethnic groups. If you're not from the Han ethnic group, the dominant group, you can't serve in government in higher level positions.

Please don't say "Eastern names don't carry the same rich and poor/personality/physical appearance ideas on them.....".
That's amazingly......well......ill informed.
 
valkyrie013 said:
@Nombrecomun
It is what I meant, the people in charge, producers etc.didn't see it as a problem. Of course it IS a problem, resulting in miss opportunities for "american minority" actors and actresses.
In general, its better now, but its still not fixed. Just recently a british person was cast as an asian comic character in Hellboy, the actor bowed out when he learned the comic was asian, and they did cast an asian. ( movie still sucked donkey balls though)
Still room to get better.
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Got it. And I appreciate your response. The post that I quoted from you wasn't quite clear as what you meant.

And yes, if you meant that latest Hellboy movie, it did suck donkey balls. Too bad too since I thought David Harbour was a great casting choice to replace Perlman.
 
Is any given Eastern person more likely to know the connotations of Western names than any given Westerner will know the connotations of Eastern names? (Via pop culture being imported) Things like English names commonly given to fat kid characters, nerdy characters, ditzy girl characters, etc. Just curious...
 
Nombrecomun said:
Please don't say "Eastern names don't carry the same rich and poor/personality/physical appearance ideas on them.....".
That's amazingly......well......ill informed
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While poorly phrased, the original poster was clearly referring to names with connotations, which is completely independent of the actual meanings of the name. Reginald W. Haverhill IV is a rich guy, Bubba Smith is poor, but neither trait is actually recorded in the meaning of the name itself. Are there equivalent connotations in Asian names?
 
The Wormhole said:
Star Trek is nowhere near being the paragon of diversity its reputation would have you believe. Indeed, even in TOS including non-white characters in prominent roles was actually a studio mandate, not the show's attempt at building a positive future. Even then, there were other shows in the 60s which did a better job with its black and other non-white cast than TOS did. Hell, even the claim that TV's first interracial kiss was in Plato's Stepchildren is bogus, that's not even the first interracial kiss on TOS.
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Yeah, just for the record in case I gave a different impression: I'm aware of the gap between image/reputation and reality. Just, if it wants to be this beacon of representation, that's how it should be judged imo.
 
UssGlenn said:
While poorly phrased, the original poster was clearly referring to names with connotations, which is completely independent of the actual meanings of the name. Reginald W. Haverhill IV is a rich guy, Bubba Smith is poor, but neither trait is actually recorded in the meaning of the name itself. Are there equivalent connotations in Asian names?
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That's much much clearer.

But I would push back to say that maybe such names meant something related to status and wealth some time ago. Today? I don't think so. Maybe that's just my perception.
 
Perhaps. It depends on who you ask.

When writers create certain kinds of characters, they often saddle them with names that reflect (to many) their character/lack of it/desirability, even if there's nothing wrong with the name per se.

So the (older, mean, ugly, boring, etc) man someone tries to match the heroine up with will have a terrible combination of first and last names, while the hero would have something that sounds (to many people) handsome, strong, kind, brooding, mysterious, etc.
 
Do you mean like "Jack" and "John" are virile, strong, leading names for men but "Conrad" isn't?
 
Case in point: the book I just finished, A Great Catch by Lorna Seilstad.

Heroine: Emily Graham
Hero: Carter Stockton
One of the men the heroine's aunts at one point tried to set her up with: Marion Wormsley

Yuck.
 
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Well, watching an anime, a fiance of a secondary character that was pushed on her is called Perv Asshat.. She stabbed Perv Asshat and ran away..

Yes sometimes names are given to play with who there character is.
 
valkyrie013 said:
Well, watching an anime, a fiance of a secondary character that was pushed on her is called Perv Asshat.. She stabbed Perv Asshat and ran away..

Yes sometimes names are given to play with who there character is.
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Oh my goodness. That's a hell of name. LOL!!! Can't get any clearer that this is not a good character with that moniker.

Now, begs the question if it's a translated anime(if it is originally Japanese) then is it an actual Japanese translation of Perv Asshat or is someone over on this side replaced it with that name? Hmmmm.....
 
Nombrecomun said:
Oh my goodness. That's a hell of name. LOL!!! Can't get any clearer that this is not a good character with that moniker.

Now, begs the question if it's a translated anime(if it is originally Japanese) then is it an actual Japanese translation of Perv Asshat or is someone over on this side replaced it with that name? Hmmmm.....
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Unsure, was subtitled. :shrug:
 
Nombrecomun said:
Now, begs the question if it's a translated anime(if it is originally Japanese) then is it an actual Japanese translation of Perv Asshat or is someone over on this side replaced it with that name? Hmmmm.....
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According to what I can find on google, his Japanese name was Doem Ketsuhat, which is basically 'Giant Perverted Asshat'

So the English name is just a translation.
 
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