Uhh, the majority of folks on the planet Earth are Asian. You mean the wide majority of white American viewers. Who are less of a majority every year.
My gripes with Asian casting and character naming in Paramount+ Trek
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Uhh, the majority of folks on the planet Earth are Asian. You mean the wide majority of white American viewers. Who are less of a majority every year.
I meant those that are trying to or can't help but read something into a character's name, whether it's pomposity, beauty, mystery, cheerfulness, perpetual bad mood, etc.
Any given Eastern language will not be known all across the board (by all who hear it) as much as English is simply because it's become the de facto universal language (for now).
Any given Eastern language will not be known all across the board (by all who hear it) as much as English is simply because it's become the de facto universal language (for now).
English has less than half as many native speakers as Mandarin Chinese, and the number of people around the world who speak English as a first or second language is only marginally larger than the number who speak Mandarin as a first or second language. Again, you're speaking only of the perception of Western audiences, so please don't use words like "all" or "everyone."
10 most abundant last names in China, account for about 20% of the population.
1. Wang (王)
Wang is the most common surname in mainland China, which represents 92.8 million people, and is a royal surname meaning ‘King’.
2. Li (李)
Li, meaning plum, is the most common surname for Hakka Chinese, used by over 92 million people in China. Li was the royal last name during the Tang dynasty.
3. Zhang (张)
The grandson of the Yellow Emperor was bestowed the surname Zhang after his invention of the bow and arrow. Zhang can be found as a surname in many other languages, for example ‘Archer’ in English.
4. Liu (刘)
Liu was the royal surname in the Han Dynasty. The character means to kill and destroy – we certainly won’t be messing with any Liu’s!
5. Chen (陈)
Chen is the most common surname in Singapore and Taiwan, as well as in the south of China. It means to exhibit.
6. Yang (杨)
Yang is a type of tree and was the royal surname during the Zhou Dynasty.
7. Huang (黄)
Huang, which means yellow, is most popular surname in Guangdong, in southern China.
8. Zhao (赵)
Zhao is an ancient Chinese state. This was the surname of the Song dynasty royalty, so appeared first in the famous Chinese book of the top 100 surnames (百家姓) which was written at the time and is still popular in China today.
9. Wu (吴)
From the state of Wu, the surname be translated as god-like, or the highest.
10. Zhou (周)
From the state of Zhou. Has been in the top ten list of surnames in China since the Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368). It means careful and honest.
The most common Western name of "Smith" accounts for only 4 million people world wide.
Over twice that at 10 million world wide is Garcia.
Most abundant Last names in the US. Lee, first asian name doesn't appear til 21st.
1. Smith
2. Johnson
3. Williams
4. Brown
5. Jones
6. Garcia
7. Miller
8. Davis
9. Rodriguez
10. Martinez
11. Hernandez
12. Lopez
13. Gonzalez
14. Wilson
15. Anderson
16. Thomas
17. Taylor
18. Moore
19. Jackson
20. Martin
21. Lee
Lee, or some variation Li, Ly etc. is the most abundant last name in the world, over 100 million.
1. Wang (王)
Wang is the most common surname in mainland China, which represents 92.8 million people, and is a royal surname meaning ‘King’.
2. Li (李)
Li, meaning plum, is the most common surname for Hakka Chinese, used by over 92 million people in China. Li was the royal last name during the Tang dynasty.
3. Zhang (张)
The grandson of the Yellow Emperor was bestowed the surname Zhang after his invention of the bow and arrow. Zhang can be found as a surname in many other languages, for example ‘Archer’ in English.
4. Liu (刘)
Liu was the royal surname in the Han Dynasty. The character means to kill and destroy – we certainly won’t be messing with any Liu’s!
5. Chen (陈)
Chen is the most common surname in Singapore and Taiwan, as well as in the south of China. It means to exhibit.
6. Yang (杨)
Yang is a type of tree and was the royal surname during the Zhou Dynasty.
7. Huang (黄)
Huang, which means yellow, is most popular surname in Guangdong, in southern China.
8. Zhao (赵)
Zhao is an ancient Chinese state. This was the surname of the Song dynasty royalty, so appeared first in the famous Chinese book of the top 100 surnames (百家姓) which was written at the time and is still popular in China today.
9. Wu (吴)
From the state of Wu, the surname be translated as god-like, or the highest.
10. Zhou (周)
From the state of Zhou. Has been in the top ten list of surnames in China since the Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368). It means careful and honest.
The most common Western name of "Smith" accounts for only 4 million people world wide.
Over twice that at 10 million world wide is Garcia.
Most abundant Last names in the US. Lee, first asian name doesn't appear til 21st.
1. Smith
2. Johnson
3. Williams
4. Brown
5. Jones
6. Garcia
7. Miller
8. Davis
9. Rodriguez
10. Martinez
11. Hernandez
12. Lopez
13. Gonzalez
14. Wilson
15. Anderson
16. Thomas
17. Taylor
18. Moore
19. Jackson
20. Martin
21. Lee
Lee, or some variation Li, Ly etc. is the most abundant last name in the world, over 100 million.
Fascinating! I love name and word origins.
I remember me and my brothers playing EA Sports NHL Playstation games, and creating made-up players for made-up teams. They had a random name generator that would pair first and last names together (derived from their name database of all the real players, and maybe then some). Some of the name pairings seemed odd at the time. They were mostly European/American names. One combination I recall is "Bunka Bieber" (this was before Justin Bieber became a celeb, in '09).
I guess I don't notice it, or if I see it, I fail to recognize it for what it is, being ignorant.
Growing up in Ontario, Canada, I learned English as a first language from birth, and French as a second beginning in grade 4 all through high school. I didn't pursue post-secondary education.
I remember me and my brothers playing EA Sports NHL Playstation games, and creating made-up players for made-up teams. They had a random name generator that would pair first and last names together (derived from their name database of all the real players, and maybe then some). Some of the name pairings seemed odd at the time. They were mostly European/American names. One combination I recall is "Bunka Bieber" (this was before Justin Bieber became a celeb, in '09).
I guess I don't notice it, or if I see it, I fail to recognize it for what it is, being ignorant.
Growing up in Ontario, Canada, I learned English as a first language from birth, and French as a second beginning in grade 4 all through high school. I didn't pursue post-secondary education.
All true, but it's assumed that since we're posting about an American show (filmed in Canada), most of the viewers are either in the American continent, or from Europe, with a smaller group from Asia.
And why assume that "white American viewers" are only white" anyhow? Blacks and Hispanics may be in the minority overall, but quite a few are and have always been Trek fans.
I doubt many in China are watching Trek.
I'm not -- just the opposite. I'm objecting to Laura implicitly assuming that when she says that viewers (i.e. American ones) are unfamiliar with Asian languages. There are plenty of Asian-Americans who are bilingual (as anyone who's seen Everything Everywhere All at Once should know).
Fair point. I guess I'm living in the past, and a fantasy version at that. The world is larger and more complicated than I know.
Is there a chart somewhere that shows last names that all mean the same thing (essentially, nuances and connotations aside)?
So "Smith" (like silversmith, blacksmith, etc) = Schmidt = ____, Carpenter = ____= ______, and so on?
Because I've heard that sometimes actors would Anglicize their surnames to the English translation of their other language names, for ease of spelling, greater acceptance, etc
So "Smith" (like silversmith, blacksmith, etc) = Schmidt = ____, Carpenter = ____= ______, and so on?
Because I've heard that sometimes actors would Anglicize their surnames to the English translation of their other language names, for ease of spelling, greater acceptance, etc
Plenty of actor/actress's have changed there names, or use stage names, sometime because there name is already in use by someone else, or recent past.
Sometimes it is to mainstream it,
Example: Eric Braeden was born Hans-Jörg Gudegast, he changed it when he started to have top billing. Many wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger to change his name to some thing more main stream, but didn't. A few asians have also done this. Jackie Chan for one.
Sometimes it is to mainstream it,
Example: Eric Braeden was born Hans-Jörg Gudegast, he changed it when he started to have top billing. Many wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger to change his name to some thing more main stream, but didn't. A few asians have also done this. Jackie Chan for one.
In universe explanation perhaps the Econ crimes could have pressed name changes since no one wants to be linked to Tyrants for example "Lee Kuan"(we can't be certain if they are using English or Asian name ordering) is spoke twice in the same breath as Hitler perhaps after WWIII a lot of Lees, Lis, Lys etc. adopted new family names with English becoming even more dominate in could make sense that those names would be english
That makes little sense, since Li is such a ubiquitous name that nobody Asian would associate it exclusively with a tyrant. I mean, even at the height of the Red Scare in the 1950s, nobody was bothered that its champion Senator Joseph McCarthy had the same first name as the Soviet premier Joseph Stalin. It was just too common a name to be perceived in that way.
Anyway, there have been a lot of reasons historically why Chinese people have changed their names, e.g. to avoid taboos or similarity with dynastic names, to conform to fashion or spiritual auspiciousness, or more recently to change unusual names that didn't fit standardized government forms. So if people did want to change their names, they'd have plenty of other Chinese names to choose from and would have no reason to adopt Western surnames. It's increasingly common in mainland China (and has long been common in Hong Kong) for people to adopt Western nicknames to use in interactions with English speakers -- for instance, the man born Chan Kong-sang is better known to Anglophones as Jackie Chan. But there's no reason they'd adopt Western surnames.
They might if they were adopted by a Western family...either not by choice if they were young enough, or by choice out of love and respect for their new family.
If there was some/various catastrophe(s) that resulted in a lot of children being orphaned, you might see Western last names. Particularly if the records of their births were destroyed or incomplete.
If there was some/various catastrophe(s) that resulted in a lot of children being orphaned, you might see Western last names. Particularly if the records of their births were destroyed or incomplete.
I'm not comfortable with attempts to handwave a lack of Asian people or the eradication of their cultural identity in the future. The absence of Asian names in the shows is a result of unfortunate ethnocentrism on the part of the shows' creators, so trying to codify that ethnocentrism and cultural erasure as a concrete reality within the shows' universe just makes it far, far worse, not better.
The simplest answer is just that the characters we see on the show are too small a sample to be statistically representative of the whole population. In short, there are tons of Asian people with Asian names in the Trek universe -- we just haven't seen many of them in the narrow sliver of the universe that we've been shown onscreen. I mean, we didn't see any Trek characters with Nigerian names until Joann Owosekun showed up, we didn't see any openly gay humans until Stamets and Culber showed up, and we didn't see any non-binary humans until Adira showed up. So just because the creators of the franchise haven't seen fit to include them before, that doesn't make it necessary or desirable to assert that they don't exist.
This is what we've been doing in the novels for decades -- including original characters who belong to the categories that the makers of the shows hadn't managed to get around to including yet. Instead of letting their ethnocentric bias define the whole universe, we tried to balance it out to make the universe fairer. We portrayed a world where there were plenty of Asian people, LGBTQ people, etc. -- and people with non-Western names, of course -- even if none of them happened to be in prominent roles aboard ships named Enterprise or Voyager or whatever.
No need to explain it away like some one off line or human looking klingons.
Treks inclusion and diversity has been hit and miss over the years. Especially concerning this thread asian representation. But that has been industry wide so can't pigeon hole trek for this. Just have to do better going forward.
Treks inclusion and diversity has been hit and miss over the years. Especially concerning this thread asian representation. But that has been industry wide so can't pigeon hole trek for this. Just have to do better going forward.
True, but Star Trek wears representation on its sleeve and is proud of its legacy, it likes to be seen as on the forefront of pushing diversity. That's why I judge it by a higher standard than other TV shows.
Star Trek is nowhere near being the paragon of diversity its reputation would have you believe. Indeed, even in TOS including non-white characters in prominent roles was actually a studio mandate, not the show's attempt at building a positive future. Even then, there were other shows in the 60s which did a better job with its black and other non-white cast than TOS did. Hell, even the claim that TV's first interracial kiss was in Plato's Stepchildren is bogus, that's not even the first interracial kiss on TOS.
Indeed. Star Trek tries to rest on its laurels but often time fails in even the attempt. Yet it gets held up as a paragon of diversity to this day.