My gripes with Asian casting and character naming in Paramount+ Trek

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Having more to do with space than race. I suppose it could happen by coincidence.

 

[Aragorn]

Just saw this thread for the first time. American TV as long as I've been watching (which is a lot less than some of you, but more than others) has been like this where the character in the script has an Anglo name, the casting is race-blind, but then they never bother to change the name. One of the first times I paid attention to this was when Daniel Dae Kim showed up on 24 as Baker. And he was Matheson on Crusade before that.

I remember some minor internet outrage when Vanessa Williams' character was named Vasquez in the 2000 Shaft movie, but someone said there was an ex-husband in the script that wasn't in the movie.

 

[Christopher]

Just saw this thread for the first time. American TV as long as I've been watching (which is a lot less than some of you, but more than others) has been like this where the character in the script has an Anglo name, the casting is race-blind, but then they never bother to change the name. One of the first times I paid attention to this was when Daniel Dae Kim showed up on 24 as Baker. And he was Matheson on Crusade before that.

There are certainly Asian-North Americans who have Western names, such as Kristin Kreuk or Yvonne Chapman, so that's not intrinsically bad. The problem is when it's done so often that there are hardly any Asian characters with Asian names.

 

[Nyotarules]

Just saw this thread for the first time. American TV as long as I've been watching (which is a lot less than some of you, but more than others) has been like this where the character in the script has an Anglo name, the casting is race-blind, but then they never bother to change the name. One of the first times I paid attention to this was when Daniel Dae Kim showed up on 24 as Baker. And he was Matheson on Crusade before that.

I remember some minor internet outrage when Vanessa Williams' character was named Vasquez in the 2000 Shaft movie, but someone said there was an ex-husband in the script that wasn't in the movie.

Those fools were ignorant. A black character with a Hispanic name, has the similar historical connection as a black character with an Anglo name.
They need to visit Brazil, plenty black folks with Portugese names

 

[Nyotarules]

There are certainly Asian-North Americans who have Western names, such as Kristin Kreuk or Yvonne Chapman, so that's not intrinsically bad. The problem is when it's done so often that there are hardly any Asian characters with Asian names.

A fututre Trek should have a white, blonde haired, blue eyed character surname Patel (Indian), Sadat (Arabic) or Ojimadu (Nigerian).

 

[Christopher]

A fututre Trek should have a white, blonde haired, blue eyed character surname Patel (Indian), Sadat (Arabic) or Ojimadu (Nigerian).

There's Leila Kalomi, who was given a pseudo-Pacific Islander name when she was written as a love interest for Sulu, then cast as a blonde when rewritten as Spock's love interest.

 

[E-DUB]

I had a coworker whose name was as white as you can imagine without it actually being White. He was Asian. He was also adopted.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wan't Lorca Asian?

Other wise white people selling fortune cookies, just seems wrong.

Although cultural appropriation is good in the evil mirror universe?

Were the fortune cookies a clue that he was evil?

Google is telling me that Lorca complained that replicators screwed over Lorca's family business, but fortune cookies are as much poetry as food... Was this the first complaint about AI stealing the jobs of human writers?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wan't Lorca Asian?

Other wise white people selling fortune cookies, just seems wrong.

English actor using an American accent, playing a character with a Spanish name.
According to wiki the fortune cookie is an American creation attributed to Japanese immigrants.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe they had an Asian actor lined up to play Lorca, and he bailed at the last second?

Was Michelle Yeoh supposed to be be main lady for all of season one until she wasn't?

Or was Michelle still supposed to die in episode 2, and this was supposed to be her dialogue?

English actor using an American accent, playing a character with a Spanish name.
According to wiki the fortune cookie is an American creation attributed to Japanese immigrants.

So you're saying, back in the day, Japanese gangsters were shaking down Chinese Restaurants, making them sell Fortune cookies?

Real life is bizarre.

 

[The Wormhole]

Was Michelle Yeoh supposed to be be main lady for all of season one until she wasn't?

Or was Michelle still supposed to die in episode 2, and this was supposed to be her dialogue?

The casting announcement for Michelle Yeoh was clear she was only meant to be a recurring role. Even under Fuller's plans, Georgiou still died in the second episode, but by the fifth we would have met Georgiou from an alternate universe, where Lorca was originally from. Not the Mirror Universe, but rather a universe where the Battle of the Binary Stars turned out differently and Michael was celebrated as a hero who prevented all-out war.

 

[Christopher]

The casting announcement for Michelle Yeoh was clear she was only meant to be a recurring role. Even under Fuller's plans, Georgiou still died in the second episode, but by the fifth we would have met Georgiou from an alternate universe, where Lorca was originally from. Not the Mirror Universe, but rather a universe where the Battle of the Binary Stars turned out differently and Michael was celebrated as a hero who prevented all-out war.

I would've vastly preferred that to being asked to empathize with a cannibalistic genocidal dictator.

It's an interesting parallel with "Mirror, Mirror," where Jerome Bixby's original idea wasn't an evil empire but simply a version of the Federation that was losing a war because they never invented phasers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe they had an Asian actor lined up to play Lorca, and he bailed at the last second?

Was Michelle Yeoh supposed to be be main lady for all of season one until she wasn't?

Or was Michelle still supposed to die in episode 2, and this was supposed to be her dialogue?



So you're saying, back in the day, Japanese gangsters were shaking down Chinese Restaurants, making them sell Fortune cookies?

Real life is bizarre.

I’ve never heard anything about Lorca being cast with an Asian actor. But a families genetics can be complicated. I have cousins whose last name is Chinese from a Chinese grandfather. No one meeting them or their kids would think they’re part Asian. Lorca may very well have Chinese ancestors going back several generations. Or his family might have bought a company that makes fortune cookies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I’ve never heard anything about Lorca being cast with an Asian actor. But a families genetics can be complicated. I have cousins whose last name is Chinese from a Chinese grandfather. No one meeting them or their kids would think they’re part Asian. Lorca may very well have Chinese ancestors going back several generations. Or his family might have bought a company that makes fortune cookies.

The Chinese Americans stole Fortune cookies from the Japanese Americans while they were interned during WW. White people wanted to eat fortune cookies, and an opportunity presented itself for the Chinese Americans, after the Japanese Americans vanished, as culturally it was originally a Japanese food.

HOWEVER...

The actual line from the show... "The family Business, a century ago."

So the Lorcas, if this was not an out right lie, they were baking and/or printing fortunes cookie during World War III, so being more than %02 percent Chinese was not %100 necessary not to seem very racist.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Chinese Americans stole Fortune cookies from the Japanese Americans while they were interned during WW. White people wanted to eat fortune cookies, and an opportunity presented itself for the Chinese Americans, after the Japanese Americans vanished, as culturally it was originally a Japanese food.

HOWEVER...

The actual line from the show... "The family Business, a century ago."

So the Lorcas, if this was not an out right lie, they were baking and/or printing fortunes cookie during World War III, so being more than %02 percent Chinese was not %100 necessary not to seem very racist.

WWIII was in the 21st Century. DISCO is in the 23rd Century. The Lorca Fortune Cookie business is 22nd Century. No doubt supplying NX ships with fortune ladened cookies.
Not sure if a white family making fortune cookies is racist. Taco Bell was founded by some white guy.

 

[drt]

Taco Bell was founded by some white guy.

Glen Bell

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It's an interesting parallel with "Mirror, Mirror," where Jerome Bixby's original idea wasn't an evil empire but simply a version of the Federation that was losing a war because they never invented phasers.

What effect would that have had on how the characters thought and Starfleet? Hmm. Maybe it'd bear more resemblance to a military than it does, with camo and suchlike.

 

[Christopher]

What effect would that have had on how the characters thought and Starfleet? Hmm. Maybe it'd bear more resemblance to a military than it does, with camo and suchlike.

No -- in Bixby's outline, the war had only just started, a "Pearl Harbor" sneak attack by an Asian-coded honorable-alien species called the Tharn (which became the name of the Halkan leader in the final episode), aided by an old enemy of Kirk's, a human traitor who was dead in the main universe. Presumably they hadn't attempted it in the main universe because Earth had the weapons edge there, while they had it here.

Otherwise, the main differences were that Kirk had a wife named Anna aboard the ship, and that Spock, for unexplained reasons, was "more forceful and savage; closer to Vulcanian." (It was a March 1967 outline, so not much about Vulcans had been established yet.) Plus some minor tweaks like Uhura being a lieutenant commander and the tech being subtly different, more advanced in some ways and more backward in others, like phasers.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Huh. That universe could still be one of many other parallel universes still out there.

As for the missing tech, it'd be even more disruptive if they didn't have transtators. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transtator