Music genres you don't 'get'

[Jetfire]

One of my favorites is Kataklysm but they fall into the cookie monster vocal category.

There are plenty of metal bands that don't fall under the extreme that mix things up with singing and screaming.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Eyes--I love how you put a "warning" about linking to TVTropes...that site is SO addictive! But it looks like most of my music that I listen to ends at about 9, with Opeth (the one exception being the couple of Meshuggah albums I have), with most of my favorite metal still coming in at about 7-8.

 

[Shurik]

I just have to laugh when people say they don't get death metal.

It is one of my favorite genres of music.

I'd like to ask why. What's the appeal? I mean where's the music? The beat, the lyrical flow? I know it's cliché to say this but isn't it just noise? Most of the stuff I've ever heard of this genre just sounds like screaming and bunch of just, well, noise made with instruments . I can't imagine there being any notes, music, or pattern they're following. They're just kids plopped down in front of a drum or a guitar and allowed to go wild.

It isn't just noise if you actually bothered listening to more bands...and not knowing what you have listened to I can't really comment...your statement is just generic. IMO. And death metal is pretty sophisticated if you actually bothered to learn more about it. I was in a death metal band...more like nu-metal to be honest it it is a freaking rush...I sang/screamed/growled. The appeal to me isn't going to satisfy you...I enjoy the energy of the music. I like alot of different artists & bands from various genres...so I am not solely a metal fan.

If you don't like it that is fine...but you don't seem to know much about what you are bashing.

[edit] This may not help; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Rv4pL0I8o&feature=related listen. or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecA2X2yuvjc or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEQjjpA-1kA&feature=related

That's exactly why I enjoy death metal, and mostly not of the melodic kind. It's all about the insane amounts of energy a good death metal song is able to project to the listener.
Here are some of the things I like from the genre:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5YDXOpgdYs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtWsyPpgDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-JSUsVFKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDcOt_Jjzp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgxAaCjsYq0

 

[iBender]

I like Prodigy, Smack My Bitch Up is about Heroin and veins though, wicked cool video I've got to say.

You can get that meaning from "Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up"?

Yes.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Of those, I think I liked Nile the best--but I think I'm a bit too much of a prog fan; I kept expecting there to be places where it would break into melody like Opeth or Orphaned Land!

 

[Goliath]

Hey--I like Nile. In fact, I'd say they're my favourite death-metal band.

Among other things, I like reading the liner notes. I was impressed when they wrote a song about Akhenaten (entitled "Cast Down the Heretic," or something), and mentioned Philip Glass' opera in the notes.

 

[lennier1]

I certainly enjoy heavy metal, but to me some of the more extreme kinds of metal sound more like vocal diarrhea than anything else.

 

[Shurik]

Hey--I like Nile. In fact, I'd say they're my favourite death-metal band.

Among other things, I like reading the liner notes. I was impressed when they wrote a song about Akhenaten (entitled "Cast Down the Heretic," or something), and mentioned Philip Glass' opera in the notes.

I'd say they are my second favorite death metal band, after Cannibal Corpse. Nile are incredible musicians, and their songwriter is a sort of amateur egyptologyst. It's refreshing to listen to death metal which is not about gore (they have gory songs, but it's sort of historical stuff) or satan. My favorite album is the last one, Those Whom The Gods Detest.

 

[Trekker4747]

I'd like to ask why. What's the appeal? I mean where's the music? The beat, the lyrical flow? I know it's cliché to say this but isn't it just noise?

I think the easiest way to answer this question is to consider an actual death-metal song. Here are the first two minutes of "Hammer Smashed Face" by Cannibal Corpse.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpQOZcNASw[/yt]

If you listen closely to that clip, you'll discover there are actually five (or maybe six) short phrases or "riffs" being played.

The song starts with the band playing one riff four times in succession (AAAA). Then it introduces a new riff on the bass (B). Then the whole band joins in, playing the second riff three times, with a variation in the middle (BbB). Then there's a third very short riff, repeated eight times (CCCCCCCC), Then they start playing a fourth riff, which is slower and more distinctive, and serves the purpose of a chorus.

What's more, the first four phrases (AAAA) are each arranged slightly differently, so that they build to a climax, before the bass break. (I don't know enough about guitar-playing to tell you exactly what they're doing differently, but the differences are clearly audible) The bass break itself is designed to give the listener a momentary rest, and to build tension, before releasing it with the next barrage of riffs.

Again, if you listen closely, you can also hear the drummer utilizing a similar variety of beats: the opening 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3, then a blast beat, then a slower beat combined with double kicking on the bass drums, then back to the 1-2-3.

A lot of death metal follows this musical collage approach. It seems like there's no melody, because the band is switching rapidly from one melody to another.

Song structure is more important than any particular melody. Any good song is like a good story: it has an initial incident, rising action, a climax, and a brief denouement. And a good death metal song (and I think "Hammer Smashed Face" is pretty good) follows this pattern as well.

Now, you may not like that sort of thing. But I think it's clear that it's not just noise. They've clearly put a lot of thought into what they're doing.

And then the guy starts "singing" because that's what I can't get past most of the time.

 

[Goliath]

And then the guy starts "singing" because that's what I can't get past most of the time.

Yes--that's a common complaint. And there's no reason why you should like it, if it's not to your taste. It wouldn't be "extreme metal" if it had broad appeal.

What I find interesting about this complaint is that it's the same one that's levelled at opera. Or similar, anyway. I couldn't count the number of times I've heard people dismiss operatic singing as shrieking or screeching. I think it's sublime.

I also note that punk rock became a lot more popular once the vocalists adopted a smoother, more melodious singing style.

Some people are open to extreme vocal styles, and others aren't.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I couldn't count the number of times I've heard people dismiss operatic singing as shrieking or screeching.

What. The. Fuck.

 

[Goliath]

I know! That's my reaction, too! But it's true!

 

[lurok]

^Operatic singing is most sublime current evolution of voice.

 

[scotpens]

Country. Not so much that I don't "get" it as I find it, in general, completely and utterly unappealing. Men whining about what bitches women are, women whining about what bastards men are, occasional whinings about various other things... All that complaining is very wearing.

You wanna know what happens when you play a country song backwards?

You get your wife back, you get your job back, you get out of prison, you get sober . . .

(Yeah, it's an old joke. I just couldn’t resist.)

The Volksmusik reminds me of another genre I can't really get: Polka.

And Tejano music, the bastard offspring of polka and Mexican mariachi.

 

[Trekker4747]

And then the guy starts "singing" because that's what I can't get past most of the time.

Yes--that's a common complaint. And there's no reason why you should like it, if it's not to your taste. It wouldn't be "extreme metal" if it had broad appeal.

What I find interesting about this complaint is that it's the same one that's levelled at opera. Or similar, anyway. I couldn't count the number of times I've heard people dismiss operatic singing as shrieking or screeching. I think it's sublime.

I also note that punk rock became a lot more popular once the vocalists adopted a smoother, more melodious singing style.

Some people are open to extreme vocal styles, and others aren't.

Opera I'm not a fan of either but mostly because of the lyrics being a different language and I just don't like that extreme kind of belting of lyrics (see: Christina Agulera: The Star Spangled Banner) but at least with Opera it's musical and words even if I don't get the language.

In the death metal I've heard it's just "Blagrhghh glahhh woahhh blardgh gah wargh! Wah gargh themig fucking, glarg warh blarghhh!"

 

[I am not Spock]

Well, there's death and there's death. Opeth, Orphaned Land, Meshuggah, I like because there's a bit of melody there. I am mainly a prog fan, so I love the more progressive forms of extreme metal.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Sorry, Jetfire and any other fans of death, but I've tried listening to whatever death metal you guys throw at me, and while occasionally, like in the case of Scar Symmetry (the third one that EnterpriseF posted), it can be OK, mostly it's far too dark, too uncomfortable to listen to, and too much of a pain on the ears.

As a rule, when even the band name and their song names start to look creepy, I tend to back away.

Eyes, I really do not think that you and I fall into the category of those who have not given death metal a fair chance.

I have dutifully watched every death metal video that Jetfire and others have posted in the TrekBBS vs. The Music thread. over the past 4 months..and I'm sure you have watched most of them also. In addition to that, I have tried out various bands on my own time...and also have a few friends who post videos to Facebook that I always watch. This one, for example, was posted only this afternoon, and I watched it earlier:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFYjW81Ml-Y&feature=share[/yt]

Now, that one I can get into a bit more, because it has some cool guitar riffs going on. Plus, the singer takes some breaks from the death metal growling & screeching to actually SING part of the song (I actually quite like this part).

I think that you and I would both agree that my taste tends to run 'harder' than yours does - my favorite 'zone' is the hard rock/punk rock/grunge rock to metal (though short of death metal) zone.

But, while I can get into the underlying music of some death metal (as the above, for example) perhaps a bit more than you can...I can't get past the growling & screeching. To me, it sounds...well....just evil.

If I could find some bands who sound like Killswitch Engage does toward the middle of that song, when the guy actually SINGS, I'd probably like them quite a bit!

I think that's why I really love that group The Birthday Massacre that Jetfire posted in the other thread (I have been listening to these guys on YouTube for 2 days now, nearly nonstop when I am online ). The music is goth metal/black metal/whatever you want to call it...but the singing that goes along with it is beautiful...not harsh and evil sounding. To me, that is a perfect mix.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t53E-u0U5rI[/yt]

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

What I find interesting about this complaint is that it's the same one that's levelled at opera. Or similar, anyway. I couldn't count the number of times I've heard people dismiss operatic singing as shrieking or screeching. I think it's sublime.

I'm not sure why, but I have a much easier time with literally screamed vocals, like in metal, than with some opera--generally with female voices.

But I also don't like female voices as much in general, either.

What I don't understand is why I have an easier time with non-Western forms of singing, and that includes with women, than I do with opera. Most of the time I hear Westerners make fun or even say it's scary or grating. But to me it's the most beautiful thing in the world. Especially Middle Eastern music.

And PKTrekGirl, you should try Thrice. Their vocalist can scream and sing, both.

 

[O'Dib]

Over time, I've developed a taste for nearly all genres I found chafing, including most metal, rap, Serbian folk, and hard core. There are subgenres that I still find intolerable, especially grindcore and noise. Who knows, I may yet "get" even those.

ETA: Oh yeah, and fuck emo! (well, some of it's awesome, when looked in the 'historical' context of the music it developed from, and the music it conversely was, before it changed to appeal to pre-teen girls)