Movies your opinion changed on from 'then' to 'now'
- Thread starter Lance Warren Baylis
- Start date
Movie / in theater (0-10) / now (0-10) / reason for change o' mindset
TMP / na / 7 / Bored me as a teen (would have rated it 3), might have liked it more as a kid if I saw it on a 60' screen instead of a small TV screen, since I never saw it in the theater. As an adult I appreciated some of its themes and tragedies a lot more. Still can't deal with the revealing pajama outfits. Eww.
TWOK / na / 8 / hasn't changed much TBO. Maybe different reasons whose net effect is no net change, but Ricardo really puts in the needed edge as a baddie and as foil against Shatner's Kirk. I saw it initially as home video as an older teen (rated it 8 and wish I were old enough to have appreciated it at the time for theater viewing). If i saw it on the big screen as a kid, I might have been freaked out by the gore. But any Trek movie with tightly written dogfight scenes instead of lots of whizzing things going pew pew always wins me over. That might be why I dislike certain Star Warts movies.
TSTS / 7 / 8 / First one I saw in the theater. Rather liked it for the action and the recaps were novel, so was the infancy of loose movie arcs (only SW had really done this in the past, and even then). I still love Kirk being a rogue.
TVH / 9 / 5 / The recap in the theater was cool but, as with the previous movie's recap of the previous movie, the logic as to how they get those clips eludes. Klingons hacking into the Enterprise and their own ship to neatly assembly the self-destruct video from outside and inside the ship? The Genesis overview was Marcus' baby, Kirk redoing it is just out of place. Moviegoers without home video back in the early-80s would not notice any of this. The reason for the downturn is that the comedy elements largely do not hold up. "of its time" is inevitable, but the movie does show its shoestrings very quickly after initial viewing. Sadly, the one thing that does hold up is the punk with the dystopian music blaring. Like Devo on crack, that band was.
TFF / 4 / 7 / At the time, it was ho-hum. Didn't like the forced comedy and cheap f/x. I was also a mid-teen, too. Especially having read up a little on the behind-the-scenes issues, Shatner is scapegoated a little too much. The comedy has only soured since, but the philosophical depth and how The Big Three interact is as pure Trek Awesome as it gets and Shatner nailed it. I noted that back in the day. The fact the movie ditches the comedy after the idiotic "99 bottles of decks up the wall, 99 bottles of decks" scene and gains focus only helps it a LOT. Sybok is a cool character. Spock needn't talk about his family the same way other characters never talk about theirs unless they get involved in a story. I also saw the rock monster clip on youtube. I'd bet real money enough of the budget had already been cut that they should have scrapped it altogether.
TUC / 9 / 8 / Loved it at the time, but hadn't noticed or fathomed the underlying racial issues I'd read about since then, some of which was eye-opening to read. Especially as the acting by all involved is of high quality and sincere, which sells the concepts that much better. The movie still challenges the status quo, not necessarily in bad ways. The Shakespeare metaphors, in that context, are okay. But I'll admit, they went back to the damn comedy well since Uhura is poorly treated in the Klingon outpost scene. Nice to know that universal translators would be recognized in the way technology-based assistants are, but they had to camp it up. I also recall a scene in the movie, where Kirk says they're obsolete and McCoy retorts 'speak for yourself!' that was cut out of every home video release. Maybe the blu-ray has it, I need to do a rewatch. I still think it was gutsy to make Cartwright a baddie. It's not expected and adds some nuance and depth. I also wish the character of Valeris were Saavik, but then again that might be a little too narrow - even for the II-IV, VI continual story. It's the only Trek movie I'd seen in the theater more than two times.
GEN / 7 / 7 / After what ATG brought to the table about what Picard would experience, GEN is the only movie that comes close to fulfilling Q's claim. In 1994, I expected all TNG movies would follow the same path. That's why the movie gets a one-up from me now. I liked the mortality bit now more than I had back then. Not since TWOK has Trek done a movie utilizing it. The crash scene rocked, even if they were influenced by "Blake's 7"'s finale (or not). The xmas scene was a real bore, still is. Plot holes and contrivances also remove the upnotch I just gave it since those seem far more obvious now.
FC / 7 / 2 / I walked out of this one on second theater viewing. It's all f/x and empty one-liners and an empty role reversal of TWOK/Moby Dick. I've bleated plot problems a few times in the past, for which I didn't need RLM to mention a stout number of those but they had a few great points (especially re: The Defiant, since I wasn't the biggest fan of DS9 back in the day but still watched some of it.) Borg queen is well acted but whose presence trashes the concept of the Borg. At least VOY kept true to the Borg... at least until a year after this movie came out. Still loved the Queen as being Janeway's nemesis (and both Queen actors played the role compellingly well), but recognize she ruins the concept of the Borg.
INS / 9 / 4 / At the time I was happy because this felt almost like what Q was talking about. The dogfight was fab, Ruafo made a compelling villain. Antony Zerbe must just love doing roles where his character has his head exploded as his fate (see "Licence to Kill" for more.) On rewatches, cracks in the facade start to appear. Worf's reverted puberty happens before they go into the patch, there's a lot of generic action fluff, a history narrative that isn't complete, a stupid song that I still did not care for in 1998, the big epic reveal that the two species are the same species pretty much made the So'na becoming the good guys by accident... oh, never mind the movie states that the Ba'Ku would grow old if removed from the environment once taken away (thus rendering the movie pointless to begin with), and the following TNG movie quickly proves the entire premise of INS to be grade-A cow-fed mostly-organic fertilizer because Geordi still uses implants so therefore the magic radiation gas was pointless or a temporary hokum or placebo at best - whether on Gilligan's Planet there or sold in bottle or tablet form in a solar system far far away. Which is all even more insulting considering how much worse NEM is compared to this one, which is no easy task.
NEM / 1 / 0 / In 2003, the day I walked into the theater with my pad and pencil - something theaters should sell next to the heart-stomping caffeine energy drinks and sugar-loaded junk food - in preparation to write down a lengthy list of plot faults with to later indulge my annoyances on the internet with (knowing who co-wrote it, I went prepared, even Sheldon Cooper would need a pad and pen...) Fortunately, Red Letter Media got to the best points and in a far more entertaining way several years later... why'd they ditch the Plinkett motif anyway? Anyway, in the theater the only time anybody gasped or made any utterances was when Riker boldly bleated "KIRK MANEUVER!!" to which the audience cheered uproariously. Even the ramming scene didn't get a response. It looked good, but the surrounding plot was so ineffectual that nobody gave a damn. The effects alone don't make a movie, then again I'm guilty of giving it 1 point at the time for that very reason. "by the numbers" is too kind a way to write how pallid and contrived the plot was. Poor cinematography didn't help. The fact the poster proudly stated it was the final voyage had me wondering as well... yup, the suits knew this flick was a steaming pile alright...
ST09 / 1 / na / I've not rewatched this and never will. I even walked out toward the end after Nero (there's an inspired name) was dispatched by fake-Kirk. It was all a bunch of callbacks and scenes and clichés from old Trek, a lot like what NEM did yet most critics didn't point out how this and NEM both copped old movies' bits and tried to pawn them off as new. Worse, ST09 feels like watching the 1995 "Brady Bunch Movie" only Trek2009 wasn't a self-aware comedy, but the underlying style of lifting fan favorite moments and twisting them to make a "new" movie is still very obvious. Replace Davy Jones with Leonard Nimoy and voila.
STID / 5 / 6 / Fake-Khan grates at times, as did the role reversal at the end with Kirk's death. Magic blood didn't help. "USS Vengeance" proves the makers have no clue why the Federation names its ships the way it does (recognizing people or events or conditions that demonstrate the good and noble. Like "Defiant" regarding it being a prototype anti-Borg ship. "Vengeance" sounds like a name the mirror universe Starfleet would use. Whoops.) Kirk and Fake-Khan being a little too pally by their spacewalk started to drag the movie down but it did pick up again. What I did and still do like involve the terrorism plot, the double doublecross by Admiral Robocop, and - yeah - the update/changes to Khan and his genetically augmented crew were rather decent. It's not my favorite Trek movie but it does get back to a lot of what made Trek work. Liked the Uhura/Nu-Spock scenes as well, even if it borders "1950s wedded Americans" style humor. Having Real-Spock return was a bonus.
STB / na / 8 / never saw it in the theater. NOT because of preemptive vitriol some fans had, but because STID, at the time, just didn't have me expecting much for any subsequent movies. Apathy. At the suggestion of a friend, I bought and watched it and - wow - this one is GREAT and I regret staying home out of apathy. Even the use of American late-80s pop culture music was used impressively IMHO. It also had an original villain who was a lot more fleshed out than Fake-Khan was. A lot better acted, too, probably because Krall was just better written to begin with and not leeching off a known name superficially. The film's flow was consistent but it didn't have the same hyped/hokum epic-wannabe feel the others had, which seemed strange but I appreciated the different feel. And seeing Enterprise destroyed at the start was weird, but a second watch makes it all feel like it was meant to be placed there. I rather like it. It is the best blend of Kelvin-era and TOS by far. (and the TFF cast photo, or was it TUC, was an awesome and deserved homage for the late great Leonard Nimoy as well)
TMP / na / 7 / Bored me as a teen (would have rated it 3), might have liked it more as a kid if I saw it on a 60' screen instead of a small TV screen, since I never saw it in the theater. As an adult I appreciated some of its themes and tragedies a lot more. Still can't deal with the revealing pajama outfits. Eww.
TWOK / na / 8 / hasn't changed much TBO. Maybe different reasons whose net effect is no net change, but Ricardo really puts in the needed edge as a baddie and as foil against Shatner's Kirk. I saw it initially as home video as an older teen (rated it 8 and wish I were old enough to have appreciated it at the time for theater viewing). If i saw it on the big screen as a kid, I might have been freaked out by the gore. But any Trek movie with tightly written dogfight scenes instead of lots of whizzing things going pew pew always wins me over. That might be why I dislike certain Star Warts movies.
TSTS / 7 / 8 / First one I saw in the theater. Rather liked it for the action and the recaps were novel, so was the infancy of loose movie arcs (only SW had really done this in the past, and even then). I still love Kirk being a rogue.
TVH / 9 / 5 / The recap in the theater was cool but, as with the previous movie's recap of the previous movie, the logic as to how they get those clips eludes. Klingons hacking into the Enterprise and their own ship to neatly assembly the self-destruct video from outside and inside the ship? The Genesis overview was Marcus' baby, Kirk redoing it is just out of place. Moviegoers without home video back in the early-80s would not notice any of this. The reason for the downturn is that the comedy elements largely do not hold up. "of its time" is inevitable, but the movie does show its shoestrings very quickly after initial viewing. Sadly, the one thing that does hold up is the punk with the dystopian music blaring. Like Devo on crack, that band was.
TFF / 4 / 7 / At the time, it was ho-hum. Didn't like the forced comedy and cheap f/x. I was also a mid-teen, too. Especially having read up a little on the behind-the-scenes issues, Shatner is scapegoated a little too much. The comedy has only soured since, but the philosophical depth and how The Big Three interact is as pure Trek Awesome as it gets and Shatner nailed it. I noted that back in the day. The fact the movie ditches the comedy after the idiotic "99 bottles of decks up the wall, 99 bottles of decks" scene and gains focus only helps it a LOT. Sybok is a cool character. Spock needn't talk about his family the same way other characters never talk about theirs unless they get involved in a story. I also saw the rock monster clip on youtube. I'd bet real money enough of the budget had already been cut that they should have scrapped it altogether.
TUC / 9 / 8 / Loved it at the time, but hadn't noticed or fathomed the underlying racial issues I'd read about since then, some of which was eye-opening to read. Especially as the acting by all involved is of high quality and sincere, which sells the concepts that much better. The movie still challenges the status quo, not necessarily in bad ways. The Shakespeare metaphors, in that context, are okay. But I'll admit, they went back to the damn comedy well since Uhura is poorly treated in the Klingon outpost scene. Nice to know that universal translators would be recognized in the way technology-based assistants are, but they had to camp it up. I also recall a scene in the movie, where Kirk says they're obsolete and McCoy retorts 'speak for yourself!' that was cut out of every home video release. Maybe the blu-ray has it, I need to do a rewatch. I still think it was gutsy to make Cartwright a baddie. It's not expected and adds some nuance and depth. I also wish the character of Valeris were Saavik, but then again that might be a little too narrow - even for the II-IV, VI continual story. It's the only Trek movie I'd seen in the theater more than two times.
GEN / 7 / 7 / After what ATG brought to the table about what Picard would experience, GEN is the only movie that comes close to fulfilling Q's claim. In 1994, I expected all TNG movies would follow the same path. That's why the movie gets a one-up from me now. I liked the mortality bit now more than I had back then. Not since TWOK has Trek done a movie utilizing it. The crash scene rocked, even if they were influenced by "Blake's 7"'s finale (or not). The xmas scene was a real bore, still is. Plot holes and contrivances also remove the upnotch I just gave it since those seem far more obvious now.
FC / 7 / 2 / I walked out of this one on second theater viewing. It's all f/x and empty one-liners and an empty role reversal of TWOK/Moby Dick. I've bleated plot problems a few times in the past, for which I didn't need RLM to mention a stout number of those but they had a few great points (especially re: The Defiant, since I wasn't the biggest fan of DS9 back in the day but still watched some of it.) Borg queen is well acted but whose presence trashes the concept of the Borg. At least VOY kept true to the Borg... at least until a year after this movie came out. Still loved the Queen as being Janeway's nemesis (and both Queen actors played the role compellingly well), but recognize she ruins the concept of the Borg.
INS / 9 / 4 / At the time I was happy because this felt almost like what Q was talking about. The dogfight was fab, Ruafo made a compelling villain. Antony Zerbe must just love doing roles where his character has his head exploded as his fate (see "Licence to Kill" for more.) On rewatches, cracks in the facade start to appear. Worf's reverted puberty happens before they go into the patch, there's a lot of generic action fluff, a history narrative that isn't complete, a stupid song that I still did not care for in 1998, the big epic reveal that the two species are the same species pretty much made the So'na becoming the good guys by accident... oh, never mind the movie states that the Ba'Ku would grow old if removed from the environment once taken away (thus rendering the movie pointless to begin with), and the following TNG movie quickly proves the entire premise of INS to be grade-A cow-fed mostly-organic fertilizer because Geordi still uses implants so therefore the magic radiation gas was pointless or a temporary hokum or placebo at best - whether on Gilligan's Planet there or sold in bottle or tablet form in a solar system far far away. Which is all even more insulting considering how much worse NEM is compared to this one, which is no easy task.
NEM / 1 / 0 / In 2003, the day I walked into the theater with my pad and pencil - something theaters should sell next to the heart-stomping caffeine energy drinks and sugar-loaded junk food - in preparation to write down a lengthy list of plot faults with to later indulge my annoyances on the internet with (knowing who co-wrote it, I went prepared, even Sheldon Cooper would need a pad and pen...) Fortunately, Red Letter Media got to the best points and in a far more entertaining way several years later... why'd they ditch the Plinkett motif anyway? Anyway, in the theater the only time anybody gasped or made any utterances was when Riker boldly bleated "KIRK MANEUVER!!" to which the audience cheered uproariously. Even the ramming scene didn't get a response. It looked good, but the surrounding plot was so ineffectual that nobody gave a damn. The effects alone don't make a movie, then again I'm guilty of giving it 1 point at the time for that very reason. "by the numbers" is too kind a way to write how pallid and contrived the plot was. Poor cinematography didn't help. The fact the poster proudly stated it was the final voyage had me wondering as well... yup, the suits knew this flick was a steaming pile alright...
ST09 / 1 / na / I've not rewatched this and never will. I even walked out toward the end after Nero (there's an inspired name) was dispatched by fake-Kirk. It was all a bunch of callbacks and scenes and clichés from old Trek, a lot like what NEM did yet most critics didn't point out how this and NEM both copped old movies' bits and tried to pawn them off as new. Worse, ST09 feels like watching the 1995 "Brady Bunch Movie" only Trek2009 wasn't a self-aware comedy, but the underlying style of lifting fan favorite moments and twisting them to make a "new" movie is still very obvious. Replace Davy Jones with Leonard Nimoy and voila.
STID / 5 / 6 / Fake-Khan grates at times, as did the role reversal at the end with Kirk's death. Magic blood didn't help. "USS Vengeance" proves the makers have no clue why the Federation names its ships the way it does (recognizing people or events or conditions that demonstrate the good and noble. Like "Defiant" regarding it being a prototype anti-Borg ship. "Vengeance" sounds like a name the mirror universe Starfleet would use. Whoops.) Kirk and Fake-Khan being a little too pally by their spacewalk started to drag the movie down but it did pick up again. What I did and still do like involve the terrorism plot, the double doublecross by Admiral Robocop, and - yeah - the update/changes to Khan and his genetically augmented crew were rather decent. It's not my favorite Trek movie but it does get back to a lot of what made Trek work. Liked the Uhura/Nu-Spock scenes as well, even if it borders "1950s wedded Americans" style humor. Having Real-Spock return was a bonus.
STB / na / 8 / never saw it in the theater.
NOT because of preemptive vitriol some fans had, but because STID, at the time, just didn't have me expecting much for any subsequent movies. Apathy. At the suggestion of a friend, I bought and watched it and - wow - this one is GREAT and I regret staying home out of apathy. Even the use of American late-80s pop culture music was used impressively IMHO. It also had an original villain who was a lot more fleshed out than Fake-Khan was. A lot better acted, too, probably because Krall was just better written to begin with and not leeching off a known name superficially. The film's flow was consistent but it didn't have the same hyped/hokum epic-wannabe feel the others had, which seemed strange but I appreciated the different feel. And seeing Enterprise destroyed at the start was weird, but a second watch makes it all feel like it was meant to be placed there. I rather like it. It is the best blend of Kelvin-era and TOS by far. (and the TFF cast photo, or was it TUC, was an awesome and deserved homage for the late great Leonard Nimoy as well)
I was honestly pretty disappointed in The Voyage Home, for being so overwhelmingly comedic. It almost seemed like a parody to me then. It's grown on me, & being part of the franchise, I'm ok with it, & even enjoy moments now. I just look at it as a lengthy extension of & reflection on the comedic moments from the old show
My stock in TMP has gone up too. I found it very derivative of 2001 in those days, & that disappointed me, as I felt Star Trek was wholly unrelated, & should reflect that. I've come to value quite a lot about it in hindsight though
My stock in TMP has gone up too. I found it very derivative of 2001 in those days, & that disappointed me, as I felt Star Trek was wholly unrelated, & should reflect that. I've come to value quite a lot about it in hindsight though
I always felt TVH was a pressure release film after the weightier and more serious TWOK and TSFS films. Something to relax to. Sort of like in horror films where after a big scare they throw in a humorous moment. Just something for the fun of it. It's not to say it doesn't deal with serious subject matter.
Now in TFF you could tell Paramount was trying to capitalize on the popularity of TVH. In TVH the comedy at least felt natural and didn't seem forced. In TFF many times it was just ridiculous.
Actually, TVH does a good job of it, which is why I'm ok with it now. Back then, it really did seem like a targeted ploy, to back off from the direction the franchise had been going (With much success)
I do think there was an attempt to maybe not so much back off from the direction they were going in, but to maybe expand the fan base a bit with something a little more lighthearted. The material was serious enough that it wasn't ridiculous though. After TWOK and TSFS it was the right time for a film like TVH. And it showed a different side to Star Trek. It was serious science fiction, but they can have a little fun too.
Now when it came to TFF, that was definitely a targeted ploy and Paramount tried to force comedy and light-heartedness where it didn't belong. While the humor in TVH was actually funny and entertaining, in TFF it was eye rolling much of the time.
TMP - I thought it was ok when I was young, but as I recall I could barley sit through the whole thing in one shot...and I still can't lol Today, this movie just bores me, my least favorite movie.
TWOK - When I was younger I thought it was just ok, however I've grown to love it. If it's not my favorite Trek movie, it's a close second.
TSFS - I actually saw this before TWOK so I was kinda lost but I've always liked it. I probably like it a bit more now.
TVH - My opinion hasn't changed, I thought it was a mid pack movie then and I think it's a mid pack movie now.
TFF - I loved it when I was younger, this along with TUC introduced me to TOS trek (I was born during TNG era and got into Star Trek through TNG). Nowadays I understand why people hate it, but it has it's moments and a little nostalgia for me, so I tend to rank it higher than most
TUC - I've always loved this one, probably a little more now than I did then
GEN - I was 4 years old when this movie came out, and though I was already a big TNG fan, this movie furthered my love for Star Trek. This along with TWOK are my two favorites.
FC - First Trek movie I saw in theaters, and I loved it then. Seems like most people think this movie is one of the best, but tbh I think it's a bit over rated, not sure why, I just don't like it as much as everyone else seems to. (Not to mention I hate the introduction of the Borg Queen, I thought the Borg were much more intimidating before her)
INS - I agree this feels like it two part episode, but I find it to be enjoyable, I loved it in theaters, now not as much, but I do think it's a tad under rated.
NEM - I thought it was ok in theaters, I hate it now
2009 - I thought the first reboot was ok, but would have been better if it was it's own thing instead of 'Star Trek'. I hold the same opinion today
ID - I hated this movie when I saw it, and I hate it now
BEY - haven't bothered to watch it yet, because I'm not a big fan of the reboots. One of these days I'll probably check it out
TWOK - When I was younger I thought it was just ok, however I've grown to love it. If it's not my favorite Trek movie, it's a close second.
TSFS - I actually saw this before TWOK so I was kinda lost but I've always liked it. I probably like it a bit more now.
TVH - My opinion hasn't changed, I thought it was a mid pack movie then and I think it's a mid pack movie now.
TFF - I loved it when I was younger, this along with TUC introduced me to TOS trek (I was born during TNG era and got into Star Trek through TNG). Nowadays I understand why people hate it, but it has it's moments and a little nostalgia for me, so I tend to rank it higher than most
TUC - I've always loved this one, probably a little more now than I did then
GEN - I was 4 years old when this movie came out, and though I was already a big TNG fan, this movie furthered my love for Star Trek. This along with TWOK are my two favorites.
FC - First Trek movie I saw in theaters, and I loved it then. Seems like most people think this movie is one of the best, but tbh I think it's a bit over rated, not sure why, I just don't like it as much as everyone else seems to. (Not to mention I hate the introduction of the Borg Queen, I thought the Borg were much more intimidating before her)
INS - I agree this feels like it two part episode, but I find it to be enjoyable, I loved it in theaters, now not as much, but I do think it's a tad under rated.
NEM - I thought it was ok in theaters, I hate it now
2009 - I thought the first reboot was ok, but would have been better if it was it's own thing instead of 'Star Trek'. I hold the same opinion today
ID - I hated this movie when I saw it, and I hate it now
BEY - haven't bothered to watch it yet, because I'm not a big fan of the reboots. One of these days I'll probably check it out
TMP and TSFS
Simply put, they’re expanded footage of the cast and sets which brought us TWOK.
Simply put, they’re expanded footage of the cast and sets which brought us TWOK.
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