That's a weird way too look at it when Discovery has been built on nostalgia from the get-go.
News Mount And Peck Are Open To Reprising Pike And Spock
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That's a weird way too look at it when Discovery has been built on nostalgia from the get-go.
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Gonzo
Guest
It was always a risk bringing in Pike and Spock, no surprise they ended up overshadowing Discovery somewhat, its hardly a surprise.The Discovery writers have Wally Pipped their own show!
Though I like Pike and Spock, the main things I was interested in were Burnham, Saru, Georgiou, Leland, and how it might or not not tie into "Calypso". And what was going on with Airiam for a few episodes. How much Tyler got on my nerves now (in the sense that he was supposed to get on my nerves, he was the outsider). And how Cornwell is my favorite recurring Admiral. The tension between Stamets and Culber too, after Culber came back. I love that it took a while for Culber to readjust himself. Tilly, I hate to say it, but I was neutral on this year, but I loved that she brought Discovery to Po. Nhan grew on me. I liked finding out things about Detmer and Owosekun. There was plenty there to be interested in, besides TOS characters.
When Spock first came onto the show, in a lucid state, he immediately lashed out against Burnham. Granted, for understandable reasons, but he was basically reciting a lot of whatever Burnham Haters have said, so I can see how that crowd would like him. And Pike was basically The Captain. The Father Knows Best steady hand. And the anti-Lorca. There's nothing wrong with that, but he didn't overshadow everyone else. Not in my view anyway.
When I saw Pike, it didn't make me pine for the Good Old Days (unlike other people), I was just comparing him to Lorca. And favorably. "Glad they have a normal, reasonable Captain now." But that's not a slight to Lorca. There was supposed to be something up with him. He was never supposed to feel quite right. So I'm glad they went the opposite way with Pike.
When Spock first came onto the show, in a lucid state, he immediately lashed out against Burnham. Granted, for understandable reasons, but he was basically reciting a lot of whatever Burnham Haters have said, so I can see how that crowd would like him. And Pike was basically The Captain. The Father Knows Best steady hand. And the anti-Lorca. There's nothing wrong with that, but he didn't overshadow everyone else. Not in my view anyway.
When I saw Pike, it didn't make me pine for the Good Old Days (unlike other people), I was just comparing him to Lorca. And favorably. "Glad they have a normal, reasonable Captain now." But that's not a slight to Lorca. There was supposed to be something up with him. He was never supposed to feel quite right. So I'm glad they went the opposite way with Pike.
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Gonzo
Guest
That is partly to do with season 2 being a substantial improvement over season 1, I dont normally sweat the details as much as you all do but even I could see the difference from the very first episode of season 2.
This season we got a recognisable Enterprise, a capable Pike/Spock (Number One will be covered Pike show if it happens) and Klingons/Ships we actually recognise.
I think many could have done without Control or the time shenanigans but I can only hope they are going somewhere worthwhile with it, or was it simply to get the Discovery and its crew out of the way for a show that ultimately has more potential.
I dont think the ending of the finale was by accident either, they clearly wanted to setup Pike/Enterprise properly to give them a solid baseline for a show if/when it happens and were happy to sacrifice the Discovery somewhat to do so, it wasnt a reset obviously but it did feel like a lot of screen time and focus in the finale was placed on showing us the Enterprise with Pike/Spock and Number One in place ready for a potential series.
I really dont think the show runners or CBS could have been any clearer in their intentions, I think its already in the bag and Mount/Peck/Romijn are just playing hard to get as a negotiating tactic but they will sign because money talks and bullshit walks.
The potential revenue from merchandising alone could pay for the show if they do it right.
I think if the intent was always to do a Pike series, they would've built options into the contracts of Mount, Peck and Romijn.
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Gonzo
Guest
Yes that was very risky indeed and I think that decision may have been made before it was decided that Spock would turn up on the show, originally the plan was probably to never see the Enterprise, Pike, Spock or Number One, the issues in season 1 probably made them realise they needed to bring them in to steady the ship and the earliest they could do that was at the very end of season 1.
If you have Spock on the show then you are bound to see Pike which means you will also see Number One and the Enterprise.
It was all or nothing.
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Gonzo
Guest
Its possible but perhaps they wanted to see how they would be received first which would be understandable after the way the first season was received, would not surprise me if CBS added an optional clause into the contracts to keep them available just in case, it was also important for the actors themselves to decide on whether they wanted to do it or not as its a considerable commitment.
Its possible one or more of them may not be able to commit fully in the way CBS wants, its possible that they could tailor the show around them and that will require some serious bouts of thumb wrestling to iron out.
Its been built on subverting nostalgia at every step. if it had been an exercise in unexamined celebration of a rosy look back it would not have gone to the effort of the angle and deconstruction it has engaged in. We know what building a Star Trek nostalgia experience is over the past couple of years, and its not this show.
I simply don't see where it has subverted nostalgia at any point in its run. It'll be interesting to see what the writers have left with the TOS framework removed.
Honestly, I think the main reason we might not see a Pike series is pretty simple: Part of the reason why Discovery jumped to the future is because Kurtzman & co couldn't be arsed to do a prequel any longer - they felt like it was too difficult "working it into canon." Now, part of that had to do with "legacy elements" of the series premise, like Michael as Spock's sister and the spore drive. These wouldn't carry over to a Pike show. However, part of that may have to do with Kurtzman's seeming belief that you have to "go big" with quadrant/multiverse level stakes, and there just isn't that much freedom to do that repeatedly in the period just prior to TOS.
Basically, a plausible and successful Pike show, while it could be serialized, would have to go back to the more ordinary Trek stakes levels - the stakes of the ship and characters, and maybe a planet or two. And I just don't think they're interested in telling that sort of story.
Basically, a plausible and successful Pike show, while it could be serialized, would have to go back to the more ordinary Trek stakes levels - the stakes of the ship and characters, and maybe a planet or two. And I just don't think they're interested in telling that sort of story.
I don't think this is true at all. We already know we're getting more Discovery (and a spinoff), so we don't need to do a petition for it. I also don't think that many people want a Pike series in lieu of Discovery S3.
I genuinely reckon after the Picard series wraps, Star Trek will only be set in the 32nd / 33rd Century. It allows CBS to do whatever they want.
If nothing else Lower Decks (presuming it's still running) is probably going to be in the 23rd or 24th centuries. Of course, I expect that show to be fairly episodic/low stakes. I could be wrong however. Disenchantment on Netflix showcased you can do a gag-based comedic show and still fit in an overall season arc.
Anson Mount is personable. Having a solid captain, whether male or female, in center seat feels more solid to me as a potential viewer. It jives with my pre-determined attitudes about how Trek should feel. He and Spock were both well-written. And, to this observer, they and Number One are already more likable and interesting than SERIOUS BURNHAM.
And yeah, since it's all potential at this point we can have the whole optimism bias going, especially those of us who weren't wowed by DSC so far. Like I can imagine it won't have some stupid arc I care nothing about for a whole season.
And yeah, since it's all potential at this point we can have the whole optimism bias going, especially those of us who weren't wowed by DSC so far. Like I can imagine it won't have some stupid arc I care nothing about for a whole season.
You're exactly right. And that's exactly what those who are screaming for a Pike Series the most seem to want. So they should find writers who are interested in doing those types of stories for that series. Otherwise, there's no point to making it. The people who want the Pike Series so badly wouldn't like it any more than they like Discovery.
I don't think finding writers would be that hard. Finding a showrunner who is interested in taking the reins might be though. Maybe JMS would be interested? He's not been doing anything in TV since Sense8 wrapped up.
I still think the biggest mistake Discovery made was not allowing us to get to know the characters for a few episodes without the background of the universe burning to the ground. A few "day in the life" episodes, episodes that would allow us understand who Michael Burnham was.
Essentially, Burnham has never worked for me because they never made me care about who she was. Which is a shame, because Martin-Green has the acting chops.
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