Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by JirinPanthosa, Nov 20, 2012.
"Profit and Lace" is undoubtedly the most unjustly-maligned episode of DS9, and possibly all of Star Trek.
Personally, I thought it was a highly underrated episode that combined the cross-dressing screwball comedy of Some Like It Hot with the moral seriousness of Black Like Me.
Far from being one of the worst episodes in the history of Trek, I would say it's one of the best. Certainly it stands comparison with TOS classics like "Let That Be your Last Battlefield" and "That Which Survives".
The problem is, unlike Black Like Me, it was almost completely farce. The grotesque stereotyping of both men and women really buried any message of tolerance. The episode was grossly hypocritical, in other words.
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.
But I'm glad to see someone taking my post as seriously as it deserves.
What about "Angel One" is underrated? I found it mildly offensive. It's like, okay, this is what happens when you put women in charge! I mean, come on. I can accept a story in which the Enterprise has to rescue humans from an alien society that is trying to hunt them down, but the female-dominated society thing seemed so shoehorned in.
I can also accept a female-dominated society (I mean, hey, why not, right? ), but the way they do it is so obnoxiously clumsy and doesn't make sense.
I rewatched Profit and Lace a few months ago. It wasn't as bad as I remembered.
It's difficult talking anywhere about differences between men and women. Say there are too many differences you're sexist, say there are none you're ignorant. Say there are average differences between men and women but they don't apply to any given individual man or woman, people get bored and stop listening to you. (See! You're doing it now!)
In farengi society women are literally and legally considered possessions, they have no rights and never have, it makes sense that gender behavior would be more separated in farengi than in humans. The only other farengi woman who ever appeared was just as greedy ad cunning as the farengi men.
But, it also makes sense that in a society where women have no rights, the way to get men on your side is to assuage their fear that making profits won't make them less feminine.
Another vote on Omega Glory. Despite the painful analogy (Comms--Communists, Yangs--Yankees) and the appearance of 100% imitation American flag (baffling ridiculous idea), it has some terrific elements and moments.
I agree with this. The Pro-America symbolism was so blatantly ridiculous, I couldn't take it seriously even when 17.
But it does have one of the best Former Friend Bad Guys in Trek history. There's believable motivation for the desperate Tracey, a man at the end of all hope, who thought his only chance at survival was using phasers.
If you take out that whole bit with the American flag, commies and Yanks out then The Omega Glory is actually a good one. That stuff was just too laughably improbable and brought the whole episode down.
Listening to Kirk reciting the preamble still gives me goose bumps.
Shatner probably delivered the line more effectively than any American TV actor could.
Although non-American and thought episode was clunky, Shatner did do that justice.
I just figured one of the early Earth ships packed full of a bunch of Libertarians carrying relics from a bygone era crashed there. Teaching the natives who did fight a biological war and had similar values about the good old red, white & blue.
Better than trying to explain it through time travel or parallel development.
DS9 - Valiant.
Threshold IS a bad episode, nobody should making excuses for it.
Also later run TNG is weak, the true underated gems are from season one and two.
Spock's Brain is clearly the most under appreciated TOS episode. So much good McCoy banter makes it a classic.
I've seen Mask mentioned. I considered this an average episode but I can still rewatch it with ease.
I loved that episode when it first aired and I still think it's awesome. One of the only Star Trek episodes to have an unhappy ending. Some people don't forgive it for the plot contrivance that they forgot they were duplicates, but I think it makes perfect sense, and I love the way they acted out their duplicates until the end.
^^^ That's a great episode. In this case the sequel is better than the original because Demons sucked ass. It's amazing how it produced such a well done sequel.
Ditto. Except, was Course: Oblivion hated? I can think of many more VOY episodes ahead of it
I thought Masks and The Royale were ok episodes. Nothing special, but not bad, I could rewatch either and enjoy them. I don't remember much about Threshold, I think I only saw it once, but I remember thinking it was bad. I liked Genesis, I thought it was an interesting episode. The Way to Eden just annoyed me. I'm not a fan of characters like that (i.e. hippies) so I just wanted them to get thrown out of an air lock the entire time. Its not the worst TOS episode by far, but its pretty bad.
Sub Rosa is probably one of my top 10 most hated ST episodes. I don't think it had one redeeming feature, although there were a few episodes worse than it in the franchise. I always hate the romance episodes. I am fine with episodes having some romance, like DS9 episodes with Sisko/Cassidy or Worf/Jadzia having screen time, but episodes that are almost fully devoted to romance/relationships always sucked (Someone to Watch Over Me being the worst, and probably in my top 3 most hated ST episodes).
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