Most Obnoxious: Neelix or Phlox?
- Thread starter Obi Wana Jones
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I agree that Neelix has naive tendencies, and much more of a "happy-go-lucky Golly Gee" kind of attitude than Phlox. It made him endearing at times, but mostly it made him annoying. I appreciated his passion for food and think that part worked out well. But I suspect he didn't have a physical relationship with Kes. They probably just "cuddled" a lot. Why? Well, who knows if Talaxian and Ocampan physiology is compatible. Yet even though Kes was young and naive in her own way, she was cautious and intelligent. Personally, I don't think she ever really "bought into" Neelix. She appeased him to a degree, but that was it. And I think in some ways that made Neelix frustrated and overtly jealous if anyone flirted with Kes (he was certainly unsure about whether Kes was devoted to him). Of course, it got to a point where Kes finally said "heh, sorry bub--you ain't getting any from me; let's officially call it quits".
Anyway, Neelix did have enough technical understanding to jump in and handle things when called for. The last episode showed him the most assertive he has ever been through the whole series, AFAIK. I appreciated it.
We never got to know Phlox that well. He was rather curious, especially with the polygamy thing. Smug at times, yes. But I never got a strong sense of obnoxious from him.
Anyway, Neelix did have enough technical understanding to jump in and handle things when called for. The last episode showed him the most assertive he has ever been through the whole series, AFAIK. I appreciated it.
We never got to know Phlox that well. He was rather curious, especially with the polygamy thing. Smug at times, yes. But I never got a strong sense of obnoxious from him.
When Kes thought she was entering the 'elogium', she and Neelix planned to have a child together, so I'm assuming that they are compatible (or, at the very least, the EMH could treat them so that they are).
I agree with Gary 7, on this one.
I don't Neelix & Kes ever had intercourse together. Why would she ask him to be the father of her child if they were already phyically intimate? Kes wasn't having sex with anyone else and Neelix was the only one she was phyically close too. If they were having sex, him being the father would be understood without asking.
Does anybody else get an image of a Phillips-head screwdriver trying to turn a flat-head screw when they think about interspecies mating? Because the imagery is disturbing me.
Does anybody else get an image of a Phillips-head screwdriver trying to turn a flat-head screw when they think about interspecies mating? Because the imagery is disturbing me.
Well I do now. Thanks so much.
But I get your point.
Sorry everyone. It is just a thought which popped into my head when Trip and T'Pol hooked up on Enterprise and I wondered if Vulcans are pointy in other places too.Well I do now. Thanks so much.
That's when the idea of plus-shapes came into it.(Edit: And that was a poorly thought out word choice on my part.)
A lot of people have sex without thinking about having a baby. If you're smart about it you're going to make sure you're using birth control and only have a child when you decide it's the right time. One can assume that Kes and Neelix were intimate but not planning a family at the time the elogium hit. Consequently, asking Neelix if he wanted to be a father would be the right thing to do.
I would agree if they hadn't established in the ep. that the Elogium was also the start of puberty. Which means Kes has no sexual "desire" before that and no need for birth control because she wouldn't be fertile yet either.
If Neelix & Kes are to be assumed of having sexual intercourse before she hit puberty, then she'd be "legally" underage and Neelix was raping her.
There is, IMO, absolutely no hint throughout the time that Kes is on Voyager that she and Neelix have gone much beyond hand-holding. Sorry, Kimc, but I just don't see it. Sure, it's possible, but if so, it's one of those things that the writers chose not to show us or even hint to us.
Well, for what it's worth, I always assumed they had sex, too. I mean, they were presented as a couple. It's just that I never thought they did not have sex. I don't expect a TV show to actually show me two people having sex to assume they're doing it.
Come to think of it, maybe the writers avoided the issue on purpose. Seems like they wanted to keep it vague.
Come to think of it, maybe the writers avoided the issue on purpose. Seems like they wanted to keep it vague.
But NCC, if they'd wanted us to think they'd had sex, don't you think they would have shown something? I mean, you sure the heck could tell, with at least some certainty, when Kirk had had sex, and that was 1960s television. If they could do it in 1967, why not with Voyager?
People do have romances without sex, you know, at least at first. To me, the Kes/Neelix thing always came across as chaste young love, at least as far as Kes was concerned.
But then again, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that relationship never felt right to me. There was something just disturbing about it that I cannot quite describe - others who seem to have had the same reaction have described it as pedophilia, but for me, that isn't quite the right word. Anyway, I was always very glad they didn't confront us with anything that led me to believe Neelix was having sex with this incredibly young and inexperienced girl because my reaction would have been an emphatic "Eeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuwwwwww!" So perhaps I missed something because I wanted to miss it. I don't think so - because of all that auto-reponse euw-ing - but it's possible.
People do have romances without sex, you know, at least at first. To me, the Kes/Neelix thing always came across as chaste young love, at least as far as Kes was concerned.
But then again, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that relationship never felt right to me. There was something just disturbing about it that I cannot quite describe - others who seem to have had the same reaction have described it as pedophilia, but for me, that isn't quite the right word. Anyway, I was always very glad they didn't confront us with anything that led me to believe Neelix was having sex with this incredibly young and inexperienced girl because my reaction would have been an emphatic "Eeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuwwwwww!" So perhaps I missed something because I wanted to miss it. I don't think so - because of all that auto-reponse euw-ing - but it's possible.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I really don't. And I know that people can have relationships without sex. (Actually I even know people who do.) It's just that I never ever doubted Kes and Neelix had sex. I mean, it's not like I thought about it that much. I just assumed they had a romantic relationship which involved sex. I agree, it could have been implied more strongly by the writers. But I guess there just never was a story that demanded to actually allude to their sexual life.
However, I can see now how people never thought they had sex. That's what this board is great for; getting new perspectives on things.
Learning is good, and I'd like to learn too, so on that note, where do you see that the writers implied it at all? You say they could have implied it "more strongly," but I didn't see them even hint at the merest wisp of a possibility. But again, that could because of the eeeeeeeuuuuuuwwww-factor....
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