Maybe, but I thought there was a clause in his contract where they weren't allowed to make Star Trek without his involvement. Or "involvement" in quotations for the movies after TMP.
most disappointing Trek movie?
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
I *think* it was something like a first refusal clause. "We're making a movie. You have the opportunity to be a consultant, and get paid to do so, or you can choose to walk away." Which is more or less what you just said 
I think it's time for FactTrek. Maurice, Harvey, we need you to set the record straight on TWOK?
Maurice, Harvey, we need you to set the record straight on TWOK?Leaf on the wind, man...
Is it fair to say, what made Star Trek: Generations disappointing was not only how Kirk was handled but how Picard's Enterprise was treated as well?
Not for me, but I'd bet yes for many others. I never liked the TNG Enterprise, from the first look to the Hilton vibe of the interior. That's not to say I wanted it destroyed, but I just didn't care if it was.
I'm not keen on the D, either. But I do appreciate the thought and effort they put into making it seem more advanced and comfortable than the refit. They sacrificed visual interest and dynamism for world building, and I can understand that decision, even if I don’t love the execution.
Unfortunately, that logic became less apparent after the new shows gave up on visual continuity.
In 1994, the destruction of the Enterprise-D caught me by surprise. I wasn't on the Internet yet and they kept it hidden from all print media and TV ads that I was aware of.
So my reaction was, "I didn't set that coming!" but by the end of the movie, I shrugged it off. Like Picard said, "I doubt this will be last ship to carry the name Enterprise." And we all knew there'd be a next movie, so it was a foregone conclusion. I didn't think anything of the destruction of the Enterprise-D, beyond what a great scene the crash-landing made. Of course I was also 15 at the time, so take that into account too.
I even wondered in the back of my mind if they'd just keep the same model and replace the "D" with an "E" on the registry for the next movie, similar to what they did with the Enterprise-A in TVH when they just slapped an "A" at the end. Then 1996 came, we saw the Enterprise-E, I immediately liked it better than the D, and I didn't look back... until later.
The more time passed, the less I liked the E. So these days, I prefer the D. But at the time -- when Generations came out -- I wasn't thinking "Oh no! They destroyed the D!"
I think people had a different mentality in the '90s. Horrible as this sounds, as soon as something was deemed "old", most people didn't want to have anything to do with it anymore. Sometimes even just a couple years made a huge difference. Since 2000, change hasn't come anywhere near as fast, pop-culturally. Unless it's a cell phone.
So my reaction was, "I didn't set that coming!" but by the end of the movie, I shrugged it off. Like Picard said, "I doubt this will be last ship to carry the name Enterprise." And we all knew there'd be a next movie, so it was a foregone conclusion. I didn't think anything of the destruction of the Enterprise-D, beyond what a great scene the crash-landing made. Of course I was also 15 at the time, so take that into account too.
I even wondered in the back of my mind if they'd just keep the same model and replace the "D" with an "E" on the registry for the next movie, similar to what they did with the Enterprise-A in TVH when they just slapped an "A" at the end. Then 1996 came, we saw the Enterprise-E, I immediately liked it better than the D, and I didn't look back... until later.
The more time passed, the less I liked the E. So these days, I prefer the D. But at the time -- when Generations came out -- I wasn't thinking "Oh no! They destroyed the D!"
I think people had a different mentality in the '90s. Horrible as this sounds, as soon as something was deemed "old", most people didn't want to have anything to do with it anymore. Sometimes even just a couple years made a huge difference. Since 2000, change hasn't come anywhere near as fast, pop-culturally. Unless it's a cell phone.
Last edited:
I'm going to cause outrage... but First Contact.
We are all motivated differently from movies. As a TNG uber-fan I loved Generations to pieces. I watched it repeatedly and bought a surround sound TV as I wanted some of that movie vibe.
I came out of First Contact deflated. I remember clearly walking out going "meh". I think it was because I didn't like the new ship, the new uniforms that much and there was no real humour or camaraderie that I loved in TNG.
Then I'm one of the seven people on planet earth that really liked Insurrection. Everyone complained it was like a big TV episode and I think that's why I thought it was great. It was my crew again.
To this day I still find First Contact a solid movie, but it doesn't engage me on some level.
We are all motivated differently from movies. As a TNG uber-fan I loved Generations to pieces. I watched it repeatedly and bought a surround sound TV as I wanted some of that movie vibe.
I came out of First Contact deflated. I remember clearly walking out going "meh". I think it was because I didn't like the new ship, the new uniforms that much and there was no real humour or camaraderie that I loved in TNG.
Then I'm one of the seven people on planet earth that really liked Insurrection. Everyone complained it was like a big TV episode and I think that's why I thought it was great. It was my crew again.
To this day I still find First Contact a solid movie, but it doesn't engage me on some level.
that was sort of the attitude to TOS post Generations (or even before Generations) - TOS was deemed 'old'/over and 'star trek' was TNG - there seemed a feeling of TOS is lucky to have one last shot with Generations (after its one last shot of VI) and the results were less than stellar (no Spock/Bones, Kirk dying in a lame way) and with FC i recall there seemed to be a feel in the press/reviews of thank god theres no Shatner in this one!.. finally TNG go it alone and it soars!..now this is more like it! etc (i remember my older bro who loved TOS and considered TWOK the greatest movie of all time was like 'now THIS is star trek!' when FC came out and i was like 'what about TWOK?' and he was 'its a different ball game now') and BTS we know shatner approached Berman (who allegedly was never a fan of TOS) about bringing back Kirk and was met with a stony silence - which led to 'The Return' etc
flash forward a few years 2000s and TNG was getting that treatment! and by the decades end TOS was the cool kid on the block again (and then the actual TOS became more prevalent in the world of SM/streaming despite the JJ reboot to the point where it felt like younger generation discovering TOS are like 'oh Shatners the real kirk and TOS is the real Trek'). but now since maybe beginning last decade everthings sort of evened out its like it dosnt matter stuff is old and its actually celebrated (see all the recent 'legacy sequels' featuring original cast like Picard)
Last edited:
I started my ST journey with TSFS in late 1980s while I was still in the pre-school and since then any of the TOS movies cannot be a disappointment to me. I didn't see TNG until the 2nd half of the 1990s. That said, I think I have only seen TNG seasons 1-3 when I went to INS in cinema and actually, I didn't consider it to be a disappointment, in fact I still think it has the most TNG feel to it when compared to the mess GEN was trying to please both TNG and TOS fans and ultimately failing to do either, while FC has no other ambition than to be a sci-fi alien monsters action movie of the week and it shows. Now about NEM...it has no clear direction apart of being the last hurraah for the TNG crew and it shows (if sir Patrick wants to drive a buggy, let him drive a buggy). But generally, with ENT and everything happenning in that time, it mostly shows how tired was the production team. Still, it wasn't the biggest disappointment. The reboots were. And from them, STID was the worst. On the other hand, I cannot really say I was disappointed by it, because I had no expectations of it to begin with. So probably the actual disappointement was Beyond, because it was so hyped for having new director and new writing team and I have expected more from Simon Pegg as I loved his stuff like Spaced, Paul, Hot Fuzz...
That's a frequent criticism of Insurrection, that it was basically a 2 hour episode of the series. But I liked it. And in some ways that could be a strength. I personally rank it 4th of the 4 TNG movies, but that doesn't mean I didn't like it (much like TFF comes in last place of the films, but I still enjoyed it).
I was always a bit disappointed that it had very little mention and almost no ties to the Dominion War that was raging on DS9 at the time. Not that I expected it to be closely tied to DS9 as it was a movie and they wanted to attract the larger audience, not all of which watched DS9, but I thought there might be a bit more.
But the story was fine. It was more light-hearted than the heavier First Contact (much like TVH was a much welcome lighter film after TWOK and TSFS), so I get what they were going for. And I always applauded the cinematography of Insurrection. It had some beautiful shots on the planet. And of course the music I thought was well done. Goldsmith is always very good at capturing the mood of any scene.
The problem also is in an international release. While INS was released in cinemas pretty much worldwide in the span of a year, DS9 was not. So leaning more heavily on its story could have been confusing to the international audience, as well as the source of spoilers. For example in Czech republic, INS was released in theatres on 1st April 1999, but at that time, DS9 was in season 3 on TV (and the season 4 was released...wait for it...in 2012
).
but at that time, DS9 was in season 3 on TV (and the season 4 was released...wait for it...in 2012
That's quite a gap. I wonder why it took so long.
Yeah, I can understand that. But there were probably ways to link it to the war that didn't require people to know what was going on DS9. But then it probably would have been a more serious film, and they were clearly going for something less serious after First Contact.
But it always bothered me that at the beginning of the movie, before they found out about Data's, um, issues, they were on their way to an archaeological dig. There's a huge war going on, and the Federation is fighting for its very survival, and the flagship of Starfleet, one of Starfleet's most powerful vessels, was on its way to an archaeological dig.
But it's a minor nitpick that doesn't have a lot to do with the overall film.
And there were a few lines about the war...at the beginning when they note diplomats are involved with Dominion negotiations--which we know were going on at times from DS9, even while the war was raging.
And at the end when Captain Picard tells Anij about how he has to go back to the Federation to slow things down and he notes he can't abandon the Federation to their enemies basically (I forget the exact line). I took that as an inference to the Dominion War. So it's acknowledged.
I do find as the years go by that nitpick bothers me less and less. I can watch it and enjoy it these days for what it is and it's not that big of a deal for me overall.
I once did a positive review of Nemesis, because I always say I'm one of the 10 people that liked Nemesis (there may be a few more, but not much
)--in which case I only focused on the things I liked about the film. Someday I think I'll do that for Insurrection. That film gets some flak too, but it has plenty of things to like about it as well. 
Did Generations do 1701-D justice to an amazing ship which dazzled audiences of 7 seasons?
Yup. That (and the rest of your post) tracks with everything I remember.
... then came Insurrection two years later.
You know, some people were upset that Kirk died.
I was more upset that they destroyed the Enterprise-D. I had this hope that when Picard and Kirk emerged from the Nexus that somehow the Enterprise would be saved.
And it's funny because when I first saw it way back in 1987 I thought it was the ugliest ship they ever came up with. It really grew on me over the years though.
I had read somewhere that they felt it didn't translate well to the big screen, which is why they destroyed it and came up with something different. I don't know what they meant by that, but I admit I'm not to familiar with the ins and outs of filming shows vs. movies so maybe it's true.
Generations was a bit surreal when I saw it in the theater. Here were the TV series sets, ship, uniforms and characters mostly as they appeared in the show suddenly on the big screen months later.
When TMP came out it was years later with a completely redesigned ship, uniforms and the crew looked basically 10 years older.
Yeah I kind of recall that as well. While I wouldn't put it quite so cynically I was ready to see TNG crew on the big screen without the original series at that point. I mean, I had largely said my 'good byes' after TUC and I really came to like TNG so I was ready for a TNG only movie.
Part of it might have been Shatners acting as well. He was getting pretty hammy. Particularly in TFF, TUC and Generations he had changed quite a bit. I think it was overlooked a bit in TUC because it was well regarded for the most part. It's also one reason I'm probably one of the few Trekkies that didn't feel the need to see Shatner play Kirk in the Abrams movies.
In fact, when I went to see TWOK late last year he even admitted his acting has changed over the years. Of course it does, basically is how he noted it. He's not the same person he was in 1966. So I think some critics at least were ready to move on.
The Enterprise did appear more complicated in Generations which I thought could be interesting or a detriment based on how she was handled. The outcome was a detriment because none of the new things presented on the Enterprise didn't make the ship function better but slower and worse. It was Excelsior 2.0 for me, all this new additions but is a total dud, for 7 seasons the Enterprise could fire 3 or more aft torpedoes but in VII it lays one egg to destroy a Klingon ship, the phaser array can produce a multitude of phaser attacks but in VII it's just one.
It's putting the ship in an unfair situation and completely forgetting the vessel's full potential, I wouldn't have minded showing the Enterprise in her full glory and gave her what she'd got and fell than the shit that was produced. It was the lack of respect for the ship which pissed me off, and then we have Riker, Worf, and Data of all people dropping the ball in doing their jobs; I thought they were smarter strategists than what was presented on screen. They did not look good and neither did the Enterprise.