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most disappointing Trek movie?

most disappointing

  • TMP

    Votes: 11 5.5%
  • TFF

    Votes: 29 14.5%
  • GEN

    Votes: 24 12.0%
  • INS

    Votes: 19 9.5%
  • NEM

    Votes: 57 28.5%
  • STID

    Votes: 34 17.0%
  • BEY

    Votes: 8 4.0%
  • TWOK

    Votes: 6 3.0%
  • TSFS

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • TVH

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • TUC

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • FC

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • ST09

    Votes: 7 3.5%

  • Total voters
    200
I admit it has been a while since I've seen the movie (I do want to do a Kelvin, or just Trek overall, movie rewatch this year but it was the reactor scene that lost me on the whole movie. Also, I didn't want to see Khan again because they set up the entire universe to go into whatever direction they wanted. To go back to the Khan well just seemed like a lack of creativity.
To quote a different sci-fi movie "Well, what you want and what happens ain't exactly been similar"
I didn't want to see Khan either, but I knew with the state of filmmaking, it was pretty much impossible that we weren't going to get him. I'm just glad he had intelligence this time, instead of being reduced to just quoting books he clearly hadn't read or comprehended even slightly. But then, quoting literature was a staple of Nick Meyer direction it seems.
While one advantage to a reboot is to set up a different universe and take it in other directions, the other tendency is to take familiar things and do something different with them, which was equally inevitable. If the fanbase at large wasn't spending so much time with Khan speculation after 2009, we may not have gotten what we did. ... but then, if Wrath of Khan wasn't always put on such a high pedestal (a pedestal that Voyage Home is far more worthy of), then Hollywood may have been less likely to give us bad guys out for revenge all the time. Seriously,... was there a single Star Trek film from Undiscovered Country onwards to not have revenge play a role in the film?
 
Generations? The guy just wanted to get back to the Nexus. Revenge really didn't play that much of a factor.
Its the one where you have to stretch a little bit, but he is basically taking vengeance on the world for taking him away from his precious Nexus by saying "Frak it, I don't care who dies along the way, just so long as I get back"
There is also a bit of revenge of the Duras Sisters against the Klingon Empire that they should just give up trying to "re-conquer" already,... as they never really conquered it in the first place. Hell, there is a LOT you could have done with that story, but it ended up being totally wasted in this movie. Everything in that movie was so poorly executed anyway.
 
I admit it has been a while since I've seen the movie (I do want to do a Kelvin, or just Trek overall, movie rewatch this year but it was the reactor scene that lost me on the whole movie. Also, I didn't want to see Khan again because they set up the entire universe to go into whatever direction they wanted. To go back to the Khan well just seemed like a lack of creativity.
But, that's what fans have demonstrated they wanted, though. Also, Admiral Marcus is the villain right up until the last act.
 
what the “fans want” doesn’t necessarily make a movie good though. It’s just pandering.
What the fans want is often wrong but that doesn't change how companies respond. I mean, fans demonstrated for years via fan films and the like that they wanted more of Kirk and Spock and so Paramount did a prequel with ST 09. Everything that happened in ST 09 I could go back and point towards being expressed as desirable in the fan community.

So, no surprise to me, Khan resurfaced, because Star Trek films have lived in the long dark shadow of TWOK fore decades. Except, Khan isn't the same as TWOK. He is more cruel, more cold and calculating. He has labored under Marcus' thumb and thus is a bit more sadistic in his approach.

Now, personally, I would not have brought back Khan. But, ID handles him in a way that I found much more interesting than TWOK.

Mileage will vary.
 
what the “fans want” doesn’t necessarily make a movie good though. It’s just pandering.
You have to balance the two. Sometimes they do, most of the time they don't. But so long as moviemaking is a business instead of an art,... you're gonna keep getting that same situation again and again.

no surprise to me, Khan resurfaced, because Star Trek films have lived in the long dark shadow of TWOK fore decades.
Its one of the many, MANY reasons why I argue that Voyage Home should occupy the pedestal of the greatest Star Trek film, as it has everything that makes Star Trek great, without having to fit the Hollywood checklist (which unfortunately is part of what made Wrath of Khan), namely easily identifiable villain with an easy-to-understand motivation for the casual audience. Voyage Home was a bit more nuanced, AND the threat was never treated as a "bad guy to defeat" rather a mystery to be solved and a question to be answered. Also remains the only Trek film where every main character is given a moment to shine and isn't just a bridge bunny. Perhaps if we championed Voyage Home as the ultimate Trek movie, we would have more variety in Trek films today, or at the very least less "bad guy of the week" syndrome.


Khan isn't the same as TWOK. He is more cruel, more cold and calculating. He has labored under Marcus' thumb and thus is a bit more sadistic in his approach.
Another reason why I feel the standard argument "Its just a ripoff of Wrath of Khan" is totally absurd. Not only was Khan far closer to Space Seed, but everything that formed his motivation in Wrath was missing. Plus every single plot element of Wrath was missing as well - cadets on training cruise, Kirk coming to grips with aging (practically given up at the time), captured crew of another starship, and GENESIS. My gods, talk about something with totally wasted potential for Star Trek storytelling, GENESIS. Something that SHOULD have formed the backbone of the entire Star Trek II film, but instead it is treated as nothing more than a bargaining chip between Khan and Kirk. It was a prop. At least Star Trek III did SOMETHING with it (granted, gave it a flaw that invalidated the whole thing).

Speaking of Star Trek III, Into Darkness has more similarity with Search for Spock than Wrath of Khan.
Kirk disobeying orders from his superior, and a larger more powerful new starship totally outclasses Enterprise, only for Scotty to sabotage it along the way.
2009 is closer to Wrath of Khan than Into Darkness is. Nero was pretty much the same as STII Khan, complete with a planet-erasing weapon, just his vengeance was against Spock rather than Kirk. They even had Kobayashi Maru in it FFS.

"But Khan and Carol Marcus were in Into Darkness"... that's like saying Search for Spock is a ripoff of "Journey to Babel" (TOS) because Sarek was in it. Oh, Voyage Home would then be an even BIGGER ripoff of that episode, because both Sarek AND Amanda were in it.
If people don't want to like Into Darkness, that's fine. Nobody is saying they have to. We can talk about story structure, plot progression, and I will agree with most of those complaints. But I fear too many find that discussion too difficult, and instead try to reach for some quick and easy answer, and that is when things fall apart. Some of Star Trek's absolute best moments were from essentially "ripping off" other things. Like "Balance of Terror" (TOS) ripping off the movie "The Enemy Below", or "Duet" (DS9) ripping off "The Man in the Glass Booth"
Even the "he wasn't a fan of Star Trek" complaint made against JJ Abrams is equally absurd, as neither Nick Meyer nor Harve Bennett were fans of Star Trek before being give the job of Director and Producer respectively.

The quick, safe, and easy answer isn't always the best one... in fact it is oftentimes the worst.
 
Speaking of Star Trek III, Into Darkness has more similarity with Search for Spock than Wrath of Khan.
Kirk disobeying orders from his superior, and a larger more powerful new starship totally outclasses Enterprise, only for Scotty to sabotage it along the way.
2009 is closer to Wrath of Khan than Into Darkness is. Nero was pretty much the same as STII Khan, complete with a planet-erasing weapon, just his vengeance was against Spock rather than Kirk. They even had Kobayashi Maru in it FFS.
Interesting. Would that make Beyond the 'Voyage Home' of the Kelvin trilogy? Lets see.. the crew split up into groups, they use another ship and they crash the ship into water at the end, then Kirk goes it alone. oh and they get the Enterprise A
 
The first one easily. While it looks good the story was just boring. Just wasn’t very memorable
 
Interesting. Would that make Beyond the 'Voyage Home' of the Kelvin trilogy? Lets see.. the crew split up into groups, they use another ship and they crash the ship into water at the end, then Kirk goes it alone. oh and they get the Enterprise A
Heh, that is a very fair point indeed. And just like the original Enterprise-A, this new one is also a disappointment. But then, the changes they made to the ship between Into Darkness and Beyond were disappointing as well. Especially those back-swept pylons, smaller nacelles, and flimsier neck connected to the saucer in WAY the wrong spot. 2009 remains my favorite version of the reboot Enterprise. All it needed was the pull the hull back a bit, and straighten out those pylons so they weren't curving inward. Those two little changes would have improved the design SO much
 
I'm still sticking with Insurrection as my answer, but sadly, TMP has to rank up there too. I know as a kid, and not yet a Trekkie, I was expecting something more...adventuresome?

I first saw it in a campground movie night on a projected screen. It was full with an excited audience, and when it was half over, more than half empty. I've actually fallen asleep during it. Yet of course, there is still much to admire in it.

RAMA
 
what the “fans want” doesn’t necessarily make a movie good though. It’s just pandering.
There's something to be said for giving the audience what they want.

Including the portion of the audience that will (if they like their first viewing) return to see the movie multiple times in the theaters, talk the movie up online, buy mechandising. That portion of the audience is called "the fans."

If "the fans" don't like what they see, then the studio gets Star Trek Beyond financial returns.
"Its just a ripoff of Wrath of Khan"
Certain aspects yes. Recycling the Khan character served no purpose, the villian could have been John Harrison with no mention of Khan. Change a few other details surrounding Harrison, and the movie would have been essentially the same.
 
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Having Khan in it doesn't make it a rip off of TWOK. The only aspect that was a direct rip off was the reactor scene and even that carried different emotional weight with it because of Kirk's journey.

I agree that recycling Khan was rather meaningless but it actually makes the story a bit more layered in a weird way. We have to surmise that Marcus' could not or was unable to get the genetically engineered type soldier he wanted in the time frame he needed.
 
As much as Khan's inclusion didn't really serve the story, secretly, I'm kinda glad they went for him. It gave the film some extra stakes in terms of facing off against one of treks ultimate villains, and now the kelvin films are done, I think retrospectively people might have seen it as a missed opportunity had he not appeared. I know I would. Plus let's not forget it's the highest grossing trek movie by some margin, so it did something right.
 
As much as Khan's inclusion didn't really serve the story, secretly, I'm kinda glad they went for him. It gave the film some extra stakes in terms of facing off against one of treks ultimate villains, and now the kelvin films are done, I think retrospectively people might have seen it as a missed opportunity had he not appeared. I know I would. Plus let's not forget it's the highest grossing trek movie by some margin, so it did something right.
While I tend towards the Khan was not needed I do agree that the inevitable question would have been "Where's Khan?" with the Kelvin films.

And, yes, I think ID did something right-it addressed the worries that Kirk was too immature to take command and forced him through an extremely difficult trial. We see that more measured Kirk, who is willing to calculate rather than jump in Beyond, and that tempers the more impulsive nature we see in 09.
 
While I tend towards the Khan was not needed I do agree that the inevitable question would have been "Where's Khan?" with the Kelvin films.

And, yes, I think ID did something right-it addressed the worries that Kirk was too immature to take command and forced him through an extremely difficult trial. We see that more measured Kirk, who is willing to calculate rather than jump in Beyond, and that tempers the more impulsive nature we see in 09.

And let's not forget - it was an absolute kick ass blockbuster on the big screen. And I'll always be grateful for that experience on first viewing.
 
Plus let's not forget it's the highest grossing trek movie by some margin, so it did something right.
yes and its easy to forget when talking box office now and comparing the Kelvin movies to all the MCUs, SW etc that back in 2013 there wasn't all the superhero and Disney SW (bar Solo) and Jurassic/Fasts all doing an easy billion a piece making it the norm and anything that costs 150-200m that dosnt reach that magic 1b is seen abit of a dud (with Endgame making something ridiculous like 3b) . back then thered been TDKs, Avengers, Avatar, and various Potters, LOTR, Transformers, Pirates but they were all huge events that wernt really expected to do those numbers to begin with .. so STIDs 470m box office (pretty much 100m more than ST09) looked very impressive back then (comparable with the surrounding Xmens and Terminators) especially for ..'eww star trek?!' .. and also made it seem like Treks next movie (50th ann) might even be able to do a Skyfall
 
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And, yes, I think ID did something right-it addressed the worries that Kirk was too immature to take command and forced him through an extremely difficult trial. We see that more measured Kirk, who is willing to calculate rather than jump in Beyond, and that tempers the more impulsive nature we see in 09.
In that, he was far closer to "Captain Kirk" than he ever was in Wrath of Khan. Was "Admiral Kirk" a good character in Wrath? Sure,... but he wasn't Kirk. If anything, he was Pike. Just as people may complain about the reactor scene being a ripoff of Wrath of Khan, the scene in Kirk's apartment in Wrath was just as much a ripoff of the scene in Pike's quarters from "The Cage"/"The Menagerie" complete with the doctor bringing liquor and pep-talking the Captain into not giving up command.
 
In that, he was far closer to "Captain Kirk" than he ever was in Wrath of Khan. Was "Admiral Kirk" a good character in Wrath? Sure,... but he wasn't Kirk. If anything, he was Pike. Just as people may complain about the reactor scene being a ripoff of Wrath of Khan, the scene in Kirk's apartment in Wrath was just as much a ripoff of the scene in Pike's quarters from "The Cage"/"The Menagerie" complete with the doctor bringing liquor and pep-talking the Captain into not giving up command.
Well, Beyond had that scene with Kirk and McCoy. I do agree that Kirk in Kelvin films felt closer to TOS Kirk than Kirk in TOS films, especially in TMP and TWOk.
 
Well, Beyond had that scene with Kirk and McCoy. I do agree that Kirk in Kelvin films felt closer to TOS Kirk than Kirk in TOS films, especially in TMP and TWOk.
I felt TMP was closer than Wrath, as how would you imagine Kirk dealing with getting older and being of higher rank? He'd constantly be trying to get back in the saddle, using his authority to make it happen (while still snubbing those ahead of him) only to find out in his older age that he is out of touch with current technologies and operations, which is why Decker had to constantly put him back in his place. Kirk was forced to acknowledge that he must now rely upon others, which is an important lesson for Kirk to have, I feel.
Wrath however,... it seemed like the lesson Kirk learned was "I need to be young again"
 
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