Most Anoying Star Trek Character ever

[Arpy]

I’d love to see the case made for how Burnham is a character without flaws. She got her captain killed and ship destroyed while sparking an intergalactic war and that’s just her first few episodes.

And it's a shame that they didn't stick with that. But they didn't. By Season 2 she was an archangel from the distant future sent to mark up the galaxy and save the world before sending everyone 1000 years into the future...to a fallen Federation that only she and her crew could rebuild. She's now smug and condescending and the fix to every problem. Vulcan and the Federation decide they need a third-party oversight council to keep both sides honest so they choose....Michael Burnham....all by herself....a Federation military starship captain. Even when things are falling apart all around for her...i.e. her relationship...or literally to be in on a burning bridge that a 100,000 year old super intelligence tells her will kill her...it's all only an opportunity for her to diva her way to teary-eyed victory.

We can talk about Kirk and Janeway, and archetype vs condescension, about the Marvel-ization of modern popular entertainment. And about gender and race and double standard vs calling those things even when they're not the issue.

The show's changed, and so has she. Alas.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk: Once again, we've saved civilization as we know it.

Burnham is in good company.

 

[BillJ]

Kirk: Once again, we've saved civilization as we know it.

That is the movie version of the character. Not sure they really did all that much civilization saving in TOS.

 

[Arpy]

Kirk: Once again, we've saved civilization as we know it.

Burnham is in good company.

And that was cheese. If that’s you’re standard, you’re welcome to it.

 

[fireproof78]

That is the movie version of the character. Not sure they really did all that much civilization saving in TOS.

More civilization changing.

And that was cheese. If that’s you’re standard, you’re welcome to it.

That's my Trek standard.

 

[BillJ]

More civilization changing.

Even then, that was remote.

 

[1001001]

I do hope SNW gets back to “smaller” stories.

Not everything has to have galactic implications.

That’s not a function of the characters though.

 

[Brennyren]

Alternately, if Georgiou had listened to Michael, the Vulcan Hello might have worked.

It should never have come down to that. If the Vulcans had ever gotten around to informing their alleged allies (that is, the rest of the Federation) of what they had learned was the most effective way to greet Klingons, then it would have been in the Starfleet Tactical Manual and Georgiou would have already known about it. It would not have been on Michael to try to convince Georgiou, or on Georgiou to violate the essence of Federation policy on the word of one woman.

I vote Vulcans for most annoying species! (Does not run away. Bring it!)

 

[BillJ]

Alternately, if Georgiou had listened to Michael, the Vulcan Hello might have worked.

We'll never know, of course...

I would have rather that scene played out with Georgiou telling Burnham that she already knew about the Vulcan Hello, name off a couple of times that it didn't work and that she didn't need advice from a Vulcan ambassador that was sitting comfy on his living room couch, a hundred light years away.

Wow... just so many things that they should've done differently on that show.

 

[fireproof78]

Even then, that was remote.

Well, it was the final frontier. Remote is in the name.

 

[Arpy]

That's my Trek standard.

That’s too bad, because Trek is better when it’s not that tongue in cheek. Winks to the audience are cute when you’ve earned them. In DSC too. But when the whole thing is a wink, when the whole thing is a Marvel movie, then it’s an exercise in both wink and wankery. The first season of DSC was more straight up drama. Burnham made a mistake and this was the tale of her redemption. Unexpected but okay. There was the character drama of the crew and twist of Lorca. It was all new and brilliant. A new flavor of Trek, a new star in the firmament of storytelling in the franchise. She was unique and human, and the series was (fantastically) a series within a series that you could watch from the start as an entirely different show, knowing what we know of Lorca.

We didn’t need Pike and Spock in this series, but they were great in Season 2. But the Burnham as winged messiah? Saving all life in the galaxy? Then rebuilding a fallen Federation? Try and put Kirk there and see the eye rolls you’ll get from even his most ardent fans. Let alone the Progressives asking, “What do we need with a [straight white Christian male American] messiah?”

 

[fireproof78]

That’s too bad,

For who?

Try and put Kirk there and see the eye rolls you’ll get from even his most ardent fans. Let alone the Progressives asking, “What do we need with a [straight white Christian male American] messiah?”

I'm not most fans.

 

[BillJ]

It is fun to save the universe every now and then, it becomes dull when that is the thrust of every season. As much as I love "The Best of Both Worlds", I wouldn't want it to be the ticking clock of every Trek season.

 

[Arpy]

For who?

For you.

I'm not most fans.

What’s your point?

 

[fireproof78]

For you.

What’s your point?

My point is that I have a basic standard of Trek. It's pretty simple. A lot of Trek is cheesy, so it doesn't take away from my enjoyment. Trek can also be dramatic, which is nice but not required to be enjoyed.

The standard is basic enjoyment. Cheese is not a strike against it.

Too bad for me, I guess.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

And it's a shame that they didn't stick with that. But they didn't. By Season 2 she was an archangel from the distant future sent to mark up the galaxy and save the world before sending everyone 1000 years into the future...to a fallen Federation that only she and her crew could rebuild. She's now smug and condescending and the fix to every problem. Vulcan and the Federation decide they need a third-party oversight council to keep both sides honest so they choose....Michael Burnham....all by herself....a Federation military starship captain. Even when things are falling apart all around for her...i.e. her relationship...or literally to be in on a burning bridge that a 100,000 year old super intelligence tells her will kill her...it's all only an opportunity for her to diva her way to teary-eyed victory.

We can talk about Kirk and Janeway, and archetype vs condescension, about the Marvel-ization of modern popular entertainment. And about gender and race and double standard vs calling those things even when they're not the issue.

The show's changed, and so has she. Alas.

I mean it well, because I do like your posts Arpy, but there's not much point in us continuing with this one. You're in your trench, I'm in mine and neither of us are going to shift the other.

Can we agree to disagree?

 

[Arpy]

I mean it well, because I do like your posts Arpy, but there's not much point in us continuing with this one. You're in your trench, I'm in mine and neither of us are going to shift the other.

Can we agree to disagree?

We don't need to agree, just share our opinions. This is a bulletin board, not a jury room.[/McCoy voice]

 

[Arpy]

Cheese is not a strike against it.

Cheese is great in moderation. My favorite movie of all time used to be The Voyage Home.

But more than that, modern television storytelling tends to be more adult and sophisticated than a lot from the past. I guess I like it when Trek tries to be all it can be. When it takes itself more seriously, the internal logic is sound, the verisimilitude is high, and the fourth wall breaks are special for being few and far between. I want to buy into the illusion, to be looking through a portal into another world. Dare I say be a voyeur. That's my standard. And I think Season 1 was more that.

 

[fireproof78]

Cheese is great in moderation. My favorite movie of all time used to be The Voyage Home.

But more than that, modern television storytelling tends to be more adult and sophisticated than a lot from the past. I guess I like it when Trek tries to be all it can be. When it takes itself more seriously, the internal logic is sound, the verisimilitude is high, and the fourth wall breaks are special for being few and far between. I want to buy into the illusion, to be looking through a portal into another world. Dare I say be a voyeur. That's my standard. And I think Season 1 was more that.

That's fair. If I get that I count it as a bonus.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Rom is probably the one who annoys me the most, but lately Saru has been making me groan the hardest. He's so damn dull, and the show is so obsessed with him and his stupid species. Yes, the make-up is cool. Thats literally the only thing the walking chicken nugget has going for him. I was so relieved when he seemingly left at the end of Season 3, and so disappointed when he came right back.

Come to think if it though, I think I hate the other Kelpian more. The one who caused the Burn. I don't know his name and I don't care, to me he's just Space Lennie. A twit whose tantrums literally kill people, and you're not allowed to be mad at him because he's just a giant baby. Being a crushing letdown to an intriguing mystery certainly didn't help either.