More Season 2

[Duane]

I've had a chance to see a few more season 2 episodes. What really strikes me is the lack of really poor episodes. That said, I'm not sure I would enjoy seeing any of them again anytime soon.

I'll comment of a few episodes that come to mind:

Blood Oath - really nice performance on the part of the three Klingons from TOS. I do find it hard to swallow that they are still alive (Klingons were not known to live so long in TOS) AND that they are all good friends AND that they are all friends with Curzon, but the performance by Kor alone makes the episode quite a joy to watch.

It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I would have enjoyed the episode a lot more more if:

1. It was a two-parter. The performances by Colicos(?) and Campbell are really strong and they deserve a two-parter. Plus, there is a bit too much going on in this episode and it feels rushed.

2. I would have really enjoyed a two-parter prior to this episode featuring the Jadzia character, with tons of "Kung Fu" style flashbacks to a young Curzon, and part of those flashbacks having him deal with Klingons to add credibility to the claim later that he was good friends with all of them. At least we learned a bit more about Curzon in this episode, but I certainly don't feel as if I know him.

I am one of those fans that never liked the amount of attention given to the Klingons post-TOS, and for the most part Klingon episodes are among my least-liked TNG episodes.

The Wire: tons of stuff here to flesh out the character of Garak, the spy/tailor. It was an enjoyable episode (except for the last few minutes when Julian made it to Cardassia and solved the issues too easily.) Anyway, the background on Garek will really payout at some point, I suspect.

Crossover - ouch! This one hurt. Not only did it feature my least favorite character (Kira) it also totally rips of "Mirror, Mirror" without any credit being given to Jerome Bixby, at least none that I saw, and that hurts a TOS fan like myself. This might have worked as a 4th or 5th season episode when I cared about these people a lot more than I do now.

I'm still finding it very hard to swallow that DS9 was some kind of ore-processing station in the past. I appreciate the comments that some of you have made (with free beaming technology it would be just as easy to process or in space; perhaps a zero gravity environment is required; doing it on the station keeps it away from the hands of Bajoran terrorists) but I am still not buying it. In this episode we see Bashir (in the Mirror universe) pushing ore around in a cart just like some mine in West Virginia in 1920! (The TOS movies were guilty of this as well in those ridiculous mining scenes on Rurapenta(spelling?))

The Maquis two-parter is perhaps the best DS9 stuff I have seen since the pilot episode and "Duet." I do recall seeing this years ago so I missed the fun of being shocked that Cisco's friend was part of the Maquis.

Two additional comments:


1. I haven't seen Jake Cisco in what seems like ages. Last I remember he was in love with a Dabo girl and then he just disappeared.

2. Commander Cisco plays a remarkably small role in a lot of season 2 episodes. I wish we saw more of him.

Three more Season 2 episodes to go, and then it is off to Season 3. But I still need to re-watch "Necessary Evil" to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Michael]

Well, I loved the "Crossover" episode. The whole episode in itself was a tribute to Bixby's masterpiece "Mirror, Mirror".

 

[Mysterion]

roger1999 said:

Blood Oath - really nice performance on the part of the three Klingons from TOS. I do find it hard to swallow that they are still alive (Klingons were not known to live so long in TOS) AND that they are all good friends AND that they are all friends with Curzon, but the performance by Kor alone makes the episode quite a joy to watch.

I don't recall anything from TOS to indicate that Klingons do not necessarily have potentially lengthy lifespans. They seem to be a fairly sturdy bunch of folks. Makes sense given the apparantly harsh environment that Q'onos seems to have. In fact, witness the reletively quick maturation of Alexander Rozhenko (again this makes sense given a harsh environment; the quicker you grow up, the more likely you are to survive long enough to help propogate the species). I would say the fact the these guys are still around for DSN is at least in part due to the relaxed political climate inthe wake of the Khitomer Accords (see ST6). Less combat (maybe), more chance for these guys to just hang around and get older.

YMMV.

 

[NathanielM]

roger1999 said:
I've had a chance to see a few more season 2 episodes. What really strikes me is the lack of really poor episodes. That said, I'm not sure I would enjoy seeing any of them again anytime soon.

I'll comment of a few episodes that come to mind:

Blood Oath - really nice performance on the part of the three Klingons from TOS. I do find it hard to swallow that they are still alive (Klingons were not known to live so long in TOS) AND that they are all good friends AND that they are all friends with Curzon, but the performance by Kor alone makes the episode quite a joy to watch.

It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I would have enjoyed the episode a lot more more if:

1. It was a two-parter. The performances by Colicos(?) and Campbell are really strong and they deserve a two-parter. Plus, there is a bit too much going on in this episode and it feels rushed.

2. I would have really enjoyed a two-parter prior to this episode featuring the Jadzia character, with tons of "Kung Fu" style flashbacks to a young Curzon, and part of those flashbacks having him deal with Klingons to add credibility to the claim later that he was good friends with all of them. At least we learned a bit more about Curzon in this episode, but I certainly don't feel as if I know him.

I am one of those fans that never liked the amount of attention given to the Klingons post-TOS, and for the most part Klingon episodes are among my least-liked TNG episodes.

The Wire: tons of stuff here to flesh out the character of Garak, the spy/tailor. It was an enjoyable episode (except for the last few minutes when Julian made it to Cardassia and solved the issues too easily.) Anyway, the background on Garek will really payout at some point, I suspect.

Crossover - ouch! This one hurt. Not only did it feature my least favorite character (Kira) it also totally rips of "Mirror, Mirror" without any credit being given to Jerome Bixby, at least none that I saw, and that hurts a TOS fan like myself. This might have worked as a 4th or 5th season episode when I cared about these people a lot more than I do now.

I'm still finding it very hard to swallow that DS9 was some kind of ore-processing station in the past. I appreciate the comments that some of you have made (with free beaming technology it would be just as easy to process or in space; perhaps a zero gravity environment is required; doing it on the station keeps it away from the hands of Bajoran terrorists) but I am still not buying it. In this episode we see Bashir (in the Mirror universe) pushing ore around in a cart just like some mine in West Virginia in 1920! (The TOS movies were guilty of this as well in those ridiculous mining scenes on Rurapenta(spelling?))

The Maquis two-parter is perhaps the best DS9 stuff I have seen since the pilot episode and "Duet." I do recall seeing this years ago so I missed the fun of being shocked that Cisco's friend was part of the Maquis.

Two additional comments:


1. I haven't seen Jake Cisco in what seems like ages. Last I remember he was in love with a Dabo girl and then he just disappeared.

2. Commander Cisco plays a remarkably small role in a lot of season 2 episodes. I wish we saw more of him.

Three more Season 2 episodes to go, and then it is off to Season 3. But I still need to re-watch "Necessary Evil" to see what all the fuss is about.

That's why I said, minus brookes, I think ds9 would be a worthy full length film. They had really good writing.
:thumbsup:

 

[TeutonicNights]

I'm still finding it very hard to swallow that DS9 was some kind of ore-processing station in the past.(...) but I am still not buying it.

Who says the ore is actually from bajor itself? "Past Prologue" and "Progress" suggest that several Planets in the System are inhabited. It would make sense if starships were bringing the ore to the station.
You're right with the beaming and the carts, of course. But I also think letting technology often take a back seat was a good choice in DS9. Very refreshing among all that technobabble and easy-tech-solution realm of the other series (even ENT sometimes )

The Maquis two-parter is perhaps the best DS9 stuff I have seen since the pilot episode and "Duet." I do recall seeing this years ago so I missed the fun of being shocked that Cisco's friend was part of the Maquis.

Agreed. The Maquis is awesome. Tthe special effects are great (even a small, but gorgeous battle with the new beautiful Peregrine fightercraft), and the plot really carries those two hours.
It single-handedly took Star trek in a new, exciting direction.
Also, the subplot with Quark and lovely Sarkonna was a welcome distraction from the politics-heavy main plot, but was also an integral part of it.
And all the sweet details: Gamsian (sp?) wine, vulcan Port, the cardassian justice system and their photographic memory.
"I know. I knew all about those systems before I even came on board". Dukat was real badass in this episode.
Ah the dialogue: "Saints in Paradise", perpetual Oktoberfest on the Moon (so we finally know where all the Germans in Star Trek are), Dukat's "you don't have the stomach it takes", and that disturbing Gul Evek scene in the colonial city ("Ooorganized terrorist activities"), and Sarkonna actually being interested in Quark ("I do find you...intriguing").
No, B&B! Vulcans don't have sex only every 7 years. It's a misinterpretation of Pon Farr. That's making the Vulcans bland and one-dimensional.

You get a feeling those people doing DS9 really really LOVED Star Trek as we do, they wanted to deliver a high quality product in every way and really gave the details some thought.

DS9 truly is "The best series on TV that no one noticed".
And I envy, you, too for getting to watch it now as the first time. It gets even better...



God I love DS9 (Ithink it shows )

 

[Kegek]

About Jerome Bixby: Crossover is the first in a series of DS9 MU episodes, and the best (they go downhill fast). The very last one was dedicated to Bixby, who had recently died.

 

[Smiley]

There's never going to be a credit for the creator of a certain concept on future episodes featuring that concept. "The Enterprise Incident" did not credit the writer of "Balance of Terror," even though both feature the Romulans. The same goes with "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "Errand of Mercy." It's all part of working for a TV show.

 

[Navaros]

roger1999 said:


2. Commander Cisco plays a remarkably small role in a lot of season 2 episodes. I wish we saw more of him.

I think this is one of DS9's very biggest strengths. DS9 is not overly-centric to the "main character", and that's awesome! When you watch a new DS9 episode, you are never sure who or what it's about, because everyone on the show is important and given ample screen-time. Including secondary characters who are sometimes even given whole entire episodes of their own. Like "The Wire" as you mentioned which is one of DS9's best episodes, and is mostly just featuring a "mere" secondary cast member (Garak) in his very own episode. DS9 is one of the few shows in history with the fortitude to do this, and it makes for an amazing show with one of the most fleshed-out cast of characters of all-time. :thumbsup:

As for Kira, as I said in your last thread, she settles down her angst and for the most part becomes tolerable in Season 2 - 3 and beyond. So chances are you won't hate her quite as much later on.

Jadzia is my view and the view of many DS9 fans is by far the worst-written and worst-acted character on the show and the one with the least development. In addition to Jadzia being the only character with no purpose whatsoever for being on the show (the same which cannot be said of Kira who's role is integral to the show even though her character is annoying in the early seasons). There are never any flashbacks coming in regards to Jadzia's character. Nor does the Jadzia actress ever directly assume the roles of her previous hosts, as should have been done to make the role interesting and worthwhile. Instead, the most Jadzia ever relays about her previous hosts is simply done by her saying things like: "Curzon did this..., Curzon did that..." in an extremely bland, generic way. Curzon likewise didn't get much development other than everyone constantly pointing out how he was a sex fiend. There are even two fundamentally conflicting accounts in the series about how Curzon died, the first of them given in Blood Oath.

 

[scottydog]

^I agree with your assessment of Jadzia. Her blandness was better suited for TNG than DS9.

You're also spot-on about DS9's ensemble cast being so strong that we see amazingly high-quality episodes centered around seemingly peripheral characters.

 

[indranee]

Navaros said:
As for Kira, as I said in your last thread, she settles down her angst and for the most part becomes tolerable in Season 2 - 3 and beyond. So chances are you won't hate her quite as much later on.

Jadzia is my view and the view of many DS9 fans is by far the worst-written and worst-acted character on the show and the one with the least development. In addition to Jadzia being the only character with no purpose whatsoever for being on the show (the same which cannot be said of Kira who's role is integral to the show even though her character is annoying in the early seasons). There are never any flashbacks coming in regards to Jadzia's character. Nor does the Jadzia actress ever directly assume the roles of her previous hosts, as should have been done to make the role interesting and worthwhile. Instead, the most Jadzia ever relays about her previous hosts is simply done by her saying things like: "Curzon did this..., Curzon did that..." in an extremely bland, generic way. Curzon likewise didn't get much development other than everyone constantly pointing out how he was a sex fiend. There are even two fundamentally conflicting accounts in the series about how Curzon died, the first of them given in Blood Oath.

I am one of those who like Kira's so-called angst. it makes total sense in the setting and ratchets up DS9/Terok Nor's past and present conflict with the Cardassians.

re Jadzia: I tend to think that the creators realized early on what an inept actress Farrell was and adjusted accordingly.

 

[Lateralus]

I'm kind of washy on Jadzia...

I *HATED* her character for the first part of the series. But as the show went on, I think Terry developed as an actress at around the same speed as her character was developing.

So toward the end of her time with the show, I became pretty pleased with both the character and the actress.

I don't think it's that Terry was ever a *bad* actress, it's just that it was really hard for her to look good when put in the same group as people like Avery Brooks, Nana Visitor, Andy Robinson, Rene Auberjonois... etc. All of whom were stellar actors and had either extensive film or theatre experience.

 

[scottydog]

I love the way Season 2 ends, with the Wire, Crossover, the Collaborator, and the Jem Hadar -- one outstanding episode after another. These eps really make me thirsty for season 3!

 

[Angel4576]

^^ For me, every episode including and after The Maquis 2-parter is a cracker.

 

[scottydog]

You're absolutely right. Prior to the Maquis 2-parter, there is a weak episode or two here and there. Afterward, they're all strong. And I forgot to mention Tribunal -- another excellent one tucked in there.

 

[CDP]

Thanks for reminding me how much I loved the back end of S2 - will go and watch again soon.

Cheers,

CDP