More LCARS 24 schematics
- Thread starter Bill Morris
- Start date
Thanks. Appreciation is appreciated. Here's that marker-pen kitbash:
Lovely—I just wrote in the VOY forum that I would have liked to see a Cheyenne-class Voyager, and this confirms it. 
One question, though—why did you put the deflector at the front edge of the saucer? Looking at the EAS analysis of the Cheyenne, the original model was created from two Galaxy undersides. Obviously that does not have any relation to the real ship (especially since on screen it appeared at such a great distance), but there are a number of smaller, secondary deflectors on the Galaxy-class saucer’s underside—I’d expect the Cheyenne class’s deflection system to work in the same way.
One question, though—why did you put the deflector at the front edge of the saucer? Looking at the EAS analysis of the Cheyenne, the original model was created from two Galaxy undersides. Obviously that does not have any relation to the real ship (especially since on screen it appeared at such a great distance), but there are a number of smaller, secondary deflectors on the Galaxy-class saucer’s underside—I’d expect the Cheyenne class’s deflection system to work in the same way.
Lovely—I just wrote in the VOY forum that I would have liked to see a Cheyenne-class Voyager, and this confirms it.
One question, though—why did you put the deflector at the front edge of the saucer? Looking at the EAS analysis of the Cheyenne, the original model was created from two Galaxy undersides. Obviously that does not have any relation to the real ship (especially since on screen it appeared at such a great distance), but there are a number of smaller, secondary deflectors on the Galaxy-class saucer’s underside—I’d expect the Cheyenne class’s deflection system to work in the same way.
I was also thinking of placing it down bit on the saucer.
It's the same problem we see with the Miranda class, for example, with no visible deflector on the models or meshes, but there has to be one, which can go anywhere on the forward part part of the saucer, more likely on the rim in the case of the Miranda. But the rim of the Cheyenne class is strangely tall for one deck and short for two decks, and that small deflector fits.
And the only other Cheyenne MSD I've seen is the recent one made by TrekBBS member bmused55, which also has in the rim, although its based on a smaller-sized version of the Cheyenne class.
http://lcarsgfx.wordpress.com/
This should wrap up the Sphinx:
There is one.. it's just part of the shield grid and not its own seperate component like it is on the bigger ships. Simple and done.
Noted. Thanks, Vance. This question more often comes up with regard to shuttles.
On that old chestnut, several competing models have unsurprisingly emerged.
On the Mirandas, the big plates of greeblies beneath the shuttlebays have suggestive features that fan blueprints readily label as the ship's navigational deflectors. Some blueprints suggest these areas are like flipping headlights, swinging down from their forward ends just a little at warp to reveal the deflector emitters.
Others interpret the two grey half-domes on top of the saucer (and the three around the 1701's sensor dish) as the navigational deflectors of that era.
But there's also the roll bar to consider: the big cylinders at the shoulders of that feature are shaped more or less the same as the supposed nav deflector of the 1701, with concentric cylinder surfaces - and the forward (and aft) ends of those cylinders are not phaser emitters, contrary to popular belief. Phaser beams emerge from small turrets to the sides of those cylinders in ST2, turrets identical to those on the saucer. All that the forward end ever does is shine a bit of white light. So, a possible twin deflector system, although of course absent from several variants beginning with the Lantree...
Quite a few shuttles have deflector dishes nowadays; the first was the Voyager "speedboat" or Type 12, then the DS9 Chaffee. This might suggest that the older types also had separate, dedicated deflector emitters - which would then have to be either carefully hidden behind hull panels, or found behind the prominent if off-centerline grilles that have been a feature of shuttle lower bows ever since TOS.
Timo Saloniemi
On the Mirandas, the big plates of greeblies beneath the shuttlebays have suggestive features that fan blueprints readily label as the ship's navigational deflectors. Some blueprints suggest these areas are like flipping headlights, swinging down from their forward ends just a little at warp to reveal the deflector emitters.
Others interpret the two grey half-domes on top of the saucer (and the three around the 1701's sensor dish) as the navigational deflectors of that era.
But there's also the roll bar to consider: the big cylinders at the shoulders of that feature are shaped more or less the same as the supposed nav deflector of the 1701, with concentric cylinder surfaces - and the forward (and aft) ends of those cylinders are not phaser emitters, contrary to popular belief. Phaser beams emerge from small turrets to the sides of those cylinders in ST2, turrets identical to those on the saucer. All that the forward end ever does is shine a bit of white light. So, a possible twin deflector system, although of course absent from several variants beginning with the Lantree...
Quite a few shuttles have deflector dishes nowadays; the first was the Voyager "speedboat" or Type 12, then the DS9 Chaffee. This might suggest that the older types also had separate, dedicated deflector emitters - which would then have to be either carefully hidden behind hull panels, or found behind the prominent if off-centerline grilles that have been a feature of shuttle lower bows ever since TOS.
Timo Saloniemi
But then you have to ask about the Sydney, Miranda/Saratoga, Oberth, Soyuz, Shuttlecraft, etc. classes. (This is deliberately ignoring all the 'wreck-bash' classes.)
None of which have a dedicated deflector dish system. I've always taken the Occam's Razor approach here and just said that they don't have one. It just makes more sense to tie it into an existing shield grid which, at lower power levels, duplicates the same function and have done with it.
None of which have a dedicated deflector dish system. I've always taken the Occam's Razor approach here and just said that they don't have one. It just makes more sense to tie it into an existing shield grid which, at lower power levels, duplicates the same function and have done with it.
Someone once told me that the TOS Enterprise didn't have a dedicated deflector dish either. Supposedly the dome dish that we see is actually a sensor dish and that the shield system was a major part of the ships deflection systems.
One thing that kind of got my attention on the Reliant was that the lights on the bottom of the saucer were red instead of white like the Enterprise, I kind of always thought maybe they were just a small deflector, but then I noticed that the other lights were kind of redish too, though not as prominant.
One thing that kind of got my attention on the Reliant was that the lights on the bottom of the saucer were red instead of white like the Enterprise, I kind of always thought maybe they were just a small deflector, but then I noticed that the other lights were kind of redish too, though not as prominant.
Mt, actually there's some truth to that. Keep in mind that TOS wasn't nearly as detailed and 'set' in its tech as later series would be. Official licenses were all over the map about what the different pieces of equipment on the Enterprise really was, and Roddenberry himself was insanely inconsistant.
So, while the MoST has the dish as a deflector/sensor dish, the Technical Manual (which WAS an official source back then) and FASA only had it as a sensor. Come TNG, the very dish was a deflector only.
We also know in TOS that deflectors are referenced as 'screens' and Roddeberry demanded that Matt Jefferies draw the 'deflector grid lines' onto the model (something that Jefferies pointedly did NOT want to do). So there's plenty of room for confusion there.
So, while the MoST has the dish as a deflector/sensor dish, the Technical Manual (which WAS an official source back then) and FASA only had it as a sensor. Come TNG, the very dish was a deflector only.
We also know in TOS that deflectors are referenced as 'screens' and Roddeberry demanded that Matt Jefferies draw the 'deflector grid lines' onto the model (something that Jefferies pointedly did NOT want to do). So there's plenty of room for confusion there.
What does being out of contact with HQ have anything to do with it? I'm not trying to put you down or anything, I just don't understand what you mean.
The navigational deflector pushes debris and dust out of the path of the starship, especially at warp speeds. If an object is moving at faster than light speeds even a motionless spec of dust could tear a huge hole in the object, hence the deflector.
It could just as easily be an efficiency issue relating to the increase in warp speeds between TOS and TNG. Maybe the deflector shields from TOS couldn't handle the higher speeds of TNG warp, and was just one of many things holding starfleet back from achieving the higher TNG warp, and a dedicated deflector dish was a major breakthrough that helped bring about the higher warp.
For example, think of a sailing ship vs an older steam boat. The steam engine is the actual advancement that led to powered sailing rather than wind sailing, but they still wouldn't have been able to make it possible without breakthroughs in propeller design.
Also don't forget that the Enterprise D also had navigational sensors around the edge of the deflector dish, so its not like they just switched from a sensor to a deflector, they just now have both.
^ The idea being that the navigational deflector also doubles as a kind of gigantic long range transmitter, like the big dish on probes like Voyager and Galileo, or the high-gain antennas on the Apollo space craft. I use that idea as a regular plot device in fanfiction: the ship is way out in the boondocks of the galaxy, so far away that a subspace message will take DAYS to reach Starfleet, and even then the message can only be reliably beamed across the galaxy by channeling full warp power into the main deflector and blasting the signal at full power in a burst transmission in the precise direction of Starfleet's most sensitive subspace telescope.
It works as a plot device because it means that contacting Starfleet is hard to do, and even then doesn't always help because you won' get their response until next tuesday and the answer is usually "You know the regs. Use your common sense."
It works as a plot device because it means that contacting Starfleet is hard to do, and even then doesn't always help because you won' get their response until next tuesday and the answer is usually "You know the regs. Use your common sense."
Yep, that's what I meant. 
I was watching one ep recently - I'm tempted to say "Heart of Glory" but I could be wrong - where there's a line of dialogue to the effect that a subspace message will take several days to reach Starfleet from the location of the Enterprise, and that's only near the Romulan/Fed NZ border. I'll look tomorrow and see which ep it was.
The other reason for having a dedicated large deflector is that such a ship might encounter new things that move prove dangerous to the ship and which the other deflector systems might not compensate for. Its role as a long-range explorer means it would be the first to encounter such threats or hazards.
I was watching one ep recently - I'm tempted to say "Heart of Glory" but I could be wrong - where there's a line of dialogue to the effect that a subspace message will take several days to reach Starfleet from the location of the Enterprise, and that's only near the Romulan/Fed NZ border. I'll look tomorrow and see which ep it was.The other reason for having a dedicated large deflector is that such a ship might encounter new things that move prove dangerous to the ship and which the other deflector systems might not compensate for. Its role as a long-range explorer means it would be the first to encounter such threats or hazards.
Even the first warp-capable Enteprise XCV 330 seems to have what looks like a navigational deflector in front, as seen in the new picture for the next SOTL calendar. Maybe it's a deflector or an antenna.
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/
I always try to show a disk on a schematic of anything with warp drive. This next little thing in progress has no warp or impulse drive. So I don't have to worry about a navigational deflector.
There's a Drex Files spread on this, too:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/enterprise-inspection-pod-interiors/
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/
I always try to show a disk on a schematic of anything with warp drive. This next little thing in progress has no warp or impulse drive. So I don't have to worry about a navigational deflector.
There's a Drex Files spread on this, too:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/enterprise-inspection-pod-interiors/
LCARS - FWIW, I wouldn't get to hung up about having a deflector dish for 2 reasons. First, the TOS Enterprise had one and it took hours for a signal to reach Star Fleet HQ (see "Balance of Terror") and the same amount of time to get back (you just know Star Fleet is going to have the best communications system around for contacting all vessels, contacting all long range vessles, communicating with vessels on hostile borders (in this case, the Romulan Neutral Zone).
Second, the Reliant had no deflector dish. As I remember it, the deflector mechanisms consist of the 3 "bumps" on the starboard, port and ventral sides of the Enterprise's (and different locations on the Reliant) dish.
The blue deflector dish is use more for emergency or large capacity pushing or other needs (as plot requires or as an actual deflector). Think of the episode in which Kirk is in Native American style garb, marries a local, etc. The Enterprise uses the deflector to push an asteroid that is plunging toward the planet out of harm's way. The Ent-D uses it for the same purpose and other purposes in TNG (e.g., BOBW).
Food for thought. I just don't want you to get into a rut and feel the need to have to have a dish on every ship when there is canonical evidence to the contrary. It helps avoid "group think."
Great work on the schematics. I look forward to more. Wish I could get something like this on my phone, but I don't think by little Verizon Samsung could handle it.
Some more progress on the orbital inspection pod:
And the Daedalus, Niagara, and Centaur are done:
http://lcars24.com/schem61.html
http://lcars24.com/schem62.html
http://lcars24.com/schem63.html
And the Daedalus, Niagara, and Centaur are done:
http://lcars24.com/schem61.html
http://lcars24.com/schem62.html
http://lcars24.com/schem63.html
