Moore and Braga vs. Orci and Kurtzman -- Who Do You Prefer?

[number6]

Yet it still managed to be better than most Star Trek of the past 15 years.

Financial success does not equal quality.

Quaility is subjective. Finacial sucess, not so much.

And outside of a few perpetually malcontented "fans," this film has been widely accepted and praised as an enjoyable Star Trek film.

 

[Broccoli]

Financial success does not equal quality.

Quaility is subjective. Finacial sucess, not so much.

And outside of a few perpetually malcontented "fans," this film has been widely accepted and praised as an enjoyable Star Trek film.

That's because the people who liked this movie are not true Star Trek fans. A true Star Trek fan would have expected...no, demanded, a full explanation of everything thing seen on screen. Like, for example, Scotty's "magic" transporter that can beam people across solar systems. That is so ridiculous....not plausible at all, unlike the real Transporter!

Also...Kirk's eyes are brown, not blue. True Star Trek fans would know this!!!!!!111!!!1one!!!

It doesn't make a difference if the movie was enjoyable or got good reviews. Star Trek is above that! The people who enjoyed it were bought off by the Abrams machine! Its the same people who've rigged every presidency, are behind the Roswell crash, and who have tapped by phone line.

Now, excuse me while I reach for my tin foil hat.

 

[TeutonicNights]

Things like the new Stardates make me worried about the next movie and what comes after that.
They may be "saving Trek", yet there is a danger they are running the Trek universe into the ground.

 

[Devon]

Yet it still managed to be better than most Star Trek of the past 15 years.

Financial success does not equal quality.

I never said it did. Critical success all across the board is a very good indicator, however, which this film has aplenty.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Things like the new Stardates make me worried about the next movie and what comes after that.
They may be "saving Trek", yet there is a danger they are running the Trek universe into the ground.

The connection between the two being?

 

[TeutonicNights]

Things like the new Stardates make me worried about the next movie and what comes after that.
They may be "saving Trek", yet there is a danger they are running the Trek universe into the ground.

The connection between the two being?

I just think the universe they create might be too hollow and dumbed down to support anything but fast-paced nuTOS movies.

 

[MvRojo]

Things like the new Stardates make me worried about the next movie and what comes after that.
They may be "saving Trek", yet there is a danger they are running the Trek universe into the ground.

The connection between the two being?

I just think the universe they create might be too hollow and dumbed down to support anything but fast-paced nuTOS movies.

I think he's just wondering how the changed stardate method is indicative of them running Trek into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

 

[Darth_Pazuzu]

Between the two, I'm forced to go with Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore. True, they didn't write either The Wrath Of Khan or The Undiscovered Country, but they did write my favorite, First Contact - so that's good enough for me!

 

[TeutonicNights]

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

Logic? My God, the man's talking about logic; I'm talking about universal Armageddon!

 

[Nerys Myk]

The connection between the two being?

I just think the universe they create might be too hollow and dumbed down to support anything but fast-paced nuTOS movies.

I think he's just wondering how the changed stardate method is indicative of them running Trek into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

Correct.

 

[JarodRussell]

The connection between the two being?

I just think the universe they create might be too hollow and dumbed down to support anything but fast-paced nuTOS movies.

I think he's just wondering how the changed stardate method is indicative of them running Trek into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

I see no logic in using Earth years after Christ's birth as the fundamental time system that a coalition of several alien worlds would agree to use. Same goes for the metric system. It's solely based on Earth dimensions. Vulcan's would have another system, Andorians yet another one, and so forth. For the sake of equality and neutrality it's logical that with the foundation of the Federation there would be a commission that determines new measuring systems based on galactic constants. The frequency of a pulsar for time, and based on that and the speed of light, distances.

IF you feel the need to retcon, then please, for god's sake, retcon it well. But not as stupid as in the movie, please.

 

[MvRojo]

I just think the universe they create might be too hollow and dumbed down to support anything but fast-paced nuTOS movies.

I think he's just wondering how the changed stardate method is indicative of them running Trek into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

I see no logic in using Earth years after Christ's birth as the fundamental time system that a coalition of several alien worlds would agree to use. Same goes for the metric system. It's solely based on Earth dimensions. Vulcan's would have another system, Andorians yet another one, and so forth. For the sake of equality and neutrality it's logical that with the foundation of the Federation there would be a commission that determines new measuring systems based on galactic constants. The frequency of a pulsar for time, and based on that and the speed of light, distances.

IF you feel the need to retcon, then please, for god's sake, retcon it well. But not as stupid as in the movie, please.

Well, they agreed to set their headquarters of Starfleet, the UFP, and the Academy on earth, scrap all their own individual ship designs in favor of Earth's designs, the 24-hour day of Earth, and use English as the seemingly official language, so I don't see why it's so crazy to use Earth's calendar system.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think he's just wondering how the changed stardate method is indicative of them running Trek into the ground.

Personally, I don't see how injecting logic and a semblance of consistency into stardates (something only Ent and Trek XI has done) is "dumbing" it down.

I see no logic in using Earth years after Christ's birth as the fundamental time system that a coalition of several alien worlds would agree to use. Same goes for the metric system. It's solely based on Earth dimensions. Vulcan's would have another system, Andorians yet another one, and so forth. For the sake of equality and neutrality it's logical that with the foundation of the Federation there would be a commission that determines new measuring systems based on galactic constants. The frequency of a pulsar for time, and based on that and the speed of light, distances.

IF you feel the need to retcon, then please, for god's sake, retcon it well. But not as stupid as in the movie, please.

Well, they agreed to set their headquarters of Starfleet, the UFP, and the Academy on earth, scrap all their own individual ship designs in favor of Earth's designs, the 24-hour day of Earth, and use English as the seemingly official language, so I don't see why it's so crazy to use Earth's calendar system.

I think Earth happens to be a planet geographically located (is that even the right term when dealing with the galaxy?) in the center of the other founding members. Which means everyone has an about equal travel time to reach Earth. And then it makes sense to make Earth the capital of the Federation.

As far as I remember, they have 26 hour days on the Enterprise-D and DS9.

I'm not saying Trek's past wouldn't need some retcons now and then. But they should be good. Making everything even more earth focused is even more stupid than it already might have been at times.

And I'm one who dislikes the idea that they are speaking English. It's an extremely arrogant assumption that they would, in my opinion.

 

[MvRojo]

I think Earth happens to be a planet geographically located (is that even the right term when dealing with the galaxy?) in the center of the other founding members. Which means everyone has an about equal travel time to reach Earth. And then it makes sense to make Earth the capital of the Federation.

As far as I remember, they have 26 hour days on the Enterprise-D and DS9.

I'm not saying Trek's past wouldn't need some retcons now and then. But they should be good. Making everything even more earth focused is even more stupid than it already might have been at times.

And I'm one who dislikes the idea that they are speaking English. It's an extremely arrogant assumption that they would, in my opinion.

I don't think it has to do with anything geographic. Enterprise seemed to imply that Earth was the most neutral since everyone else seemed to hate one or more of the other founding members.

The 26-hour day was only on DS9 but that was because it was a Bajoran station being administrated by Starfleet. The Enterprise-D used a 24-hour day.

 

[number6]

Well.. Star Trek is an American based show.. So the fact that English is the chosen language is a given and it seems silly to debate that. The idea of the design of the show and its characters was to give the viewer something relatable to the here and now despite being set in the future. This film is as true to that as any other incarnation of Trek..In fact the spirit of this film is as close to the Original series as anything else that's come out, except maybe DS9..

 

[JarodRussell]

Really? What is the true spirit of TOS?

 

[number6]

Really? What is the true spirit of TOS?

C'mon now.. Do you really expect me to define it for you??

What BBS are you a member of?

 

[TeutonicNights]

It's not just because it's Earth centric.

In the old system 1 stardate "point" was around 8 hours, right (I know I know)? so by giving a normal 4 digit TOS stardate, you'd already be pretty precise.
With the new system, you'd already have 7 digits just to be down to a day.. It just seems impractical in so many ways and its only benefit seems to be that Earthlings don't need to adapt (Except for a 10 hour day and 10 second minutes? How does that work now?).
I mean sometimes you have to change stuff that doesn't work. But I fail to see how this is warranted here?

Why use the whole "Stardate" thingy at all? If you can make Alien cultures adopt your system, why not keep to good old "Nov. 13th 2164, 14:00 hours"? Because it sounds futuristic?

Plus,considering Robaus ".04", I cannot believe they gave this real thought at all. And that's just it...if they change major stuff just to have a cool scene, and then don't even stick with their totally logical system in the same friggin movie, the whole universe around the characters becomes more and more meaningless.

How could a series ever hope to pick up from there?

 

[MvRojo]

Plus,considering Robaus ".04", I cannot believe they gave this real thought at all. And that's just it...if they change major stuff just to have a cool scene, and then don't even stick with their totally logical system in the same friggin movie, the whole universe around the characters becomes more and more meaningless.

How could a series ever hope to pick up from there?

One...I think you're the only one who considers the stardate system to be "major stuff."

Two...how did they not stick to their system?

Three...even if they didn't stick with their system, how is this any different from how TOS was internally inconsistent in their stardate system?

 

[JarodRussell]

TeutonicNights is right. It wouldn't be called "stardate" if it was the simple Earth date. Because it simply is no friggin' STARdate then. The name itself implies that it's more complex and based on some interstellar time, and not on the time it takes some planet to orbit its sun.

Really? What is the true spirit of TOS?

C'mon now.. Do you really expect me to define it for you??

What BBS are you a member of?

Please, I'd like to know.