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Monolithic cultures in Star Trek lit?

I started Day of the Vipers about a month ago. I got to page 60 and must confess I found it boring. I have this 50 page rule for books. If it doesn't arouse my interest in 50 pages I figure I'm probably wasting my time. Since DS9 is my favorite Trek series I hoped this would be good. I gave up on Star Trek novels many years ago.

You, sir, have denied yourself a really good book -- a wonderful look at a society that allows the greed and self-interest of its elites to lead them to betray their own people, gradually falling under the heel of a foreign world with no one realizing until it's too late.
Completely and totally agree. Reading the book, I was amazed by how subtlely and slowly the Cardassians took over. Before the book I had always thought it was a major, darken the sky, kill everyone, type invasion. In fact, that is actually one of the things that made Day of the Vipers one of my all time favorite novels, period. (Just so you know, I slammed down of that period for emphasis.)
 
I started Day of the Vipers about a month ago. I got to page 60 and must confess I found it boring. I have this 50 page rule for books. If it doesn't arouse my interest in 50 pages I figure I'm probably wasting my time. Since DS9 is my favorite Trek series I hoped this would be good. I gave up on Star Trek novels many years ago.

You, sir, have denied yourself a really good book -- a wonderful look at a society that allows the greed and self-interest of its elites to lead them to betray their own people, gradually falling under the heel of a foreign world with no one realizing until it's too late.
Completely and totally agree. Reading the book, I was amazed by how subtlely and slowly the Cardassians took over. Before the book I had always thought it was a major, darken the sky, kill everyone, type invasion. In fact, that is actually one of the things that made Day of the Vipers one of my all time favorite novels, period. (Just so you know, I slammed down of that period for emphasis.)

*nods* And in a lot of ways, Day of the Vipers's depiction of events is more in line with how real-life occupations often happen. After all, officially, Bajor wasn't occupied -- its government simply invited the Cardassian Union to send its army in to shore up Bajoran security. It's just that the Bajoran government happened to be unofficially taking orders from Cardassia.
 
I started Day of the Vipers about a month ago. I got to page 60 and must confess I found it boring. I have this 50 page rule for books. If it doesn't arouse my interest in 50 pages I figure I'm probably wasting my time. Since DS9 is my favorite Trek series I hoped this would be good. I gave up on Star Trek novels many years ago.

You, sir, have denied yourself a really good book -- a wonderful look at a society that allows the greed and self-interest of its elites to lead them to betray their own people, gradually falling under the heel of a foreign world with no one realizing until it's too late.
Completely and totally agree. Reading the book, I was amazed by how subtlely and slowly the Cardassians took over. Before the book I had always thought it was a major, darken the sky, kill everyone, type invasion. In fact, that is actually one of the things that made Day of the Vipers one of my all time favorite novels, period. (Just so you know, I slammed down of that period for emphasis.)

Thats how I imagined it - a slow takeover like a colonial power in 19th century Asia.

Unfortunatly, some Star Trek books have a tendancy to make massive social changes that lasted hundreds of years on Earth, last only a single generation on alien worlds - I'm glad those books are not one of them.
 
Would it be any tougher than writing such a book, but set on Earth?

As long as someone is capable of writing how humans behave in real life, they should be able to write how human-oids behave. Its just a matter of writing what an Earth writer would, but setting it in the mountains of Qo'noS, or the back streets of Qu'vakh City, or whatever. Basically humanoids in Star Trek, are humans - they have human psychology, or else characters like Worf or Tuvok would never work - if they were not driven by the same psychology as humans, they would be utterly un-compelling to the viewer - therefore a good observer of humans should be a decent writer of Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, etc.

Ah, but I don't want my Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians etc to simply be humans telling human stories set somewhere else. They can be that to a point, but I want each to be a distinct form of being (and the novels have indeed helped make it so). I wouldn't be too thrilled with a story written as part of this hypothetical project that was simply a human archetype but with the names changed so it fits in on Qo'noS. Yes, you're right of course that TV Trek does often do that (most of its aliens are humans to all intents and purposes)- and it's not a bad thing by any means, for TV or even some novels- but in literature, where there's more room for worldbuilding, I prefer my aliens to feel alien.

They can still be used to illuminate humanity, and, as you say, basic psychological similarities are necessary (and I guess logical given shared humanoid biology/environmental requirements). However, to me, simply telling a Cardassian or Andorian version of an Earth saga would miss the entire point of attempting to craft these tales as fiction from the alien's own viewpoint. That's what I found so intriguing about this hypothetical project- most Trek stories (naturally)show us alien societies and alien viewpoints (to differing degrees of "alien" as you acknowledge), but they are always geared directly to a human readership (obviously). With this proposed idea, however, you'd have to work to overcome that. It's not simply "how would an Andorian see the world?", or even "how would an Andorian explain or describe an Andorian way of thinking to outsiders?"- both of these questions have been asked and explored by multiple authors- here, the question would be, "how does an Andorian hypothetically take an Andorian mode of thinking and apply it to imaginative works of fiction aimed at other Andorians?". That's a very complex idea, bringing in a whole new layer of author creativity and cultural illumination. I believe it would be challenging, but the writers involved could really, really make it worth it. :)

Having a truely alien being as a main character would simply not work - Tuvok and Worf arnt simply human-like because of the limitations of TV - they are human-like because they would not work as characters if they werent. If Alexander was incapable of going through an identity crisis, if Worf was incapable of experiencing despair, none of their character episodes would have worked.

You misunderstand me if you think I am saying making Klingons have human psychology is opitional - it is simply the only possible way they can exist as they do currently - or else there would be no IKS Gorkon series, no Worf, etc. If you want truely alien-like beings, watch Solyaris or read Revelation Space :)

There are degrees of alien and familiar- aliens can be accessible and recognisibly human in many regards (as you say, to an undeniably great extent they have to be for the purposes of our enjoying/understanding a story) while also possessing an inhuman touch in their perception or experience of things. I wasn't suggesting the books disregard the identifiably human psychologies, merely that they expand on the differences as well as the similarities- that's a much more illuminating angle on humanity. We know Klingons and Andorians and so on experience anxiety, identity crises, love, conflicts of duty, etc, but this is in stories aimed directly at human readerships. Therefore we experience these things in pretty much straightforward human terms a lot of the time, no matter how skillfully complex the author makes the alien culture or philosophies. In this "alien fiction" anthology the authors would be working to overcome that- the human readership would have to be aimed at through the prism of a story aimed at the aliens featuring in it. There wouldn't be too much point to the project if it simply did what the Gorkon series and other series do- we have plenty of good stories about alien cultures and philosophies, I simply thought this idea opened up to an even more complex view of these aliens,one examining more closely their different takes on and perceptions of the recognisibly human traits. We know how an Andorian experiences humanity, reflects on humanity, illuminates aspects of humanity. But, within the fiction, to an Andorian these traits are not human, they're Andorian. How is Andorianity constructed? It is of course recognisibly human, but this project would enable the alien "edge" to come through very strongly, and that interests me. :)
 
I doubt that would work - to deliberatly give Klingons or Andorians inhuman psychology, would send their entire portrayal out of balance - because all psychology is linked - you couldnt have a conflict of duty for example, in a culture that did not have the psychology that underlies duty, loyalty, etc.

Humanoids in Star Trek are written like humans, from different societies - because if the underlying way of thinking were different, I don't think they would work as characters - and the few times authors have chosen to portray Klingons as genuinely different, have not felt right, after what we have seen of Worf, Martok, etc.

When I suggested that perhaps Andorian or Klingon or Cardassian fiction would be a nice way of fleshing out aliens - I did not mean alien psychology - I just meant alien culture - because I'm kinda sick of books making the entire Romulan Star Empire look like it has as much culture as a small village.
 
I doubt that would work - to deliberatly give Klingons or Andorians inhuman psychology, would send their entire portrayal out of balance - because all psychology is linked - you couldnt have a conflict of duty for example, in a culture that did not have the psychology that underlies duty, loyalty, etc.

Humanoids in Star Trek are written like humans, from different societies - because if the underlying way of thinking were different, I don't think they would work as characters - and the few times authors have chosen to portray Klingons as genuinely different, have not felt right, after what we have seen of Worf, Martok, etc.

I don't think you understood what I was getting at above. I'm not saying the books should ignore or deny the humanesque psychology shared by the vast majority of Trek aliens, I'm saying a book such as this proposed alien fiction idea would allow for inhuman aspects to be revealed alongside the human. Just because Klingons etc share a majority of psychological traits with humans, doesn't mean they are humans. Indeed, certain pre-21st century Star Trek books I've read have made the mistake of portraying them simply as humans but with a new culture- I wasn't pleased with such stories. Yes, a majority of the differences between aliens in Trek are matters of culture, but in the modern books especially there are hints of deeper distinctions (as there should be). Exploring these won't detract from our ability to relate to these characters- is it not a human trait to attempt to understand different modes of thinking? I myself think quite differently from other people. Exploring new ways of perceiving the world is what science fiction is all about, surely? :)

When I suggested that perhaps Andorian or Klingon or Cardassian fiction would be a nice way of fleshing out aliens - I did not mean alien psychology - I just meant alien culture - because I'm kinda sick of books making the entire Romulan Star Empire look like it has as much culture as a small village.

Well, I think the books do a very good job of showing us alien cultures and their complexities. :)
 
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I get what Deranged Nasat is saying. Basically, "alien" cultures in ST are like nonexistent human cultures. They all fall within the range of known human behaviors and beliefs, but there are variations that make them exotic to the typical viewer or reader, at least the Western viewer or reader. An American watching Japanese anime or reading Islamic literature will come across values, conventions, attitudes, etc. that are unfamiliar and may seem strange, because those works are coming from a different cultural perspective and aimed at audiences raised with that culture's assumptions. A Chinese or Pakistani or Congolese person watching American movies might experience similar dissonance, or would if American movies weren't already so ubiquitously seen.

So creating an "alien" culture in ST doesn't really mean creating something inhuman; it just means creating a hypothetical variant on humanity, something that takes elements from known cultural viewpoints but puts them together in a distinct way and therefore feels exotic to the reader. For instance, Klingons combine elements of historical Norse and Japanese cultures. Vulcans take a sort of Enlightenment-era Western rationalism to an extreme. Ferengi are capitalist business culture elevated to a civilization-defining level. All grounded in humanity, but put together in exotic ways. And with the occasional alien element worked in to provide novelty, such as Vulcans' biological mating urge and extended longevity, Ferengi's earlobes as erogenous zones, Andorians' four sexes, Trills' symbiosis, etc.

So DN is suggesting literature that captures the same "foreign" flavor that an American or Brit would get reading Asian or, say, ancient Sumerian literature, but with the foreignness coming from a fictitious culture (and occasionally fictitous biological and environmental influences) rather than a real one.
 
I get what Deranged Nasat is saying. Basically, "alien" cultures in ST are like nonexistent human cultures. They all fall within the range of known human behaviors and beliefs, but there are variations that make them exotic to the typical viewer or reader, at least the Western viewer or reader. An American watching Japanese anime or reading Islamic literature will come across values, conventions, attitudes, etc. that are unfamiliar and may seem strange, because those works are coming from a different cultural perspective and aimed at audiences raised with that culture's assumptions. A Chinese or Pakistani or Congolese person watching American movies might experience similar dissonance, or would if American movies weren't already so ubiquitously seen.

So creating an "alien" culture in ST doesn't really mean creating something inhuman; it just means creating a hypothetical variant on humanity, something that takes elements from known cultural viewpoints but puts them together in a distinct way and therefore feels exotic to the reader. For instance, Klingons combine elements of historical Norse and Japanese cultures. Vulcans take a sort of Enlightenment-era Western rationalism to an extreme. Ferengi are capitalist business culture elevated to a civilization-defining level. All grounded in humanity, but put together in exotic ways. And with the occasional alien element worked in to provide novelty, such as Vulcans' biological mating urge and extended longevity, Ferengi's earlobes as erogenous zones, Andorians' four sexes, Trills' symbiosis, etc.

So DN is suggesting literature that captures the same "foreign" flavor that an American or Brit would get reading Asian or, say, ancient Sumerian literature, but with the foreignness coming from a fictitious culture (and occasionally fictitous biological and environmental influences) rather than a real one.

Exactly, thanks Christopher. :)

We've seen alien viewpoints, but portrayed and demostrated for our understanding. It would be interesting to have stories "assuming" we are ourselves members of the alien race/culture (a Pahkwa-thanh story, for example, would assume we share the viewpoint that prey animals possess souls and that we honour those souls as we bring these creatures down and consume them). It would give us an even closer look at what being a member of these cultures/races entails. Using alien biology and environment to distance the cultures from any Human one and its attitudes/values also prevents the shallow portrayals I was talking about with some of the pre-21st century books I've read*, without detracting from the shared psychology that we agree is evident and essential. After all, those Pahkwa-thanh still share human psychological traits: they experience anxiety, conflicts of interest, fear, amusement, love, a sense of duty. They are also, however, distinct from us in certain areas of outlook.

*(The Klingons in several of these books didn't feel like aliens, or even truly distinct cultures. I didn't have a feel of them as anything other than humans- or perhaps more specifically Westerners- with a few references to cultural icons, made up language, etc. throw in. It was too superficial. Read a KRAD book, in contrast, and you get a sense of an actual culture or group of cultures, with an alien mode of thinking lurking behind some of it, the works).
 
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This nods back to Trek's allegorical roots. Humans are all one happy family (ish) but unpleasant aspects of our society were morphed into these alien species. Babylon 5 did a slightly better job of rounding out the alien cultures and characters, and the most satisfying thing about the new cylons in BSG was that it was actually really very hard to get a handle on what their motivations were (I'm looking forward to the Plan too).

TMP is my favorite era and Ex Machina, while a little self-indulgent in places, did a really fun job of fleshing out the politics of the Fabrini into a fascinating, multi-layered society. As a result of that novel I spent 9 hours clipping portraits from the new hi-def screencaps from the Rec Deck scene for an RPG... I have 145 portraits!
 
TMP is my favorite era and Ex Machina, while a little self-indulgent in places, did a really fun job of fleshing out the politics of the Fabrini into a fascinating, multi-layered society. As a result of that novel I spent 9 hours clipping portraits from the new hi-def screencaps from the Rec Deck scene for an RPG... I have 145 portraits!

Is that online? I'd be intrigued to see it.
 
Exploring these won't detract from our ability to relate to these characters- is it not a human trait to attempt to understand different modes of thinking? I myself think quite differently from other people. Exploring new ways of perceiving the world is what science fiction is all about, surely?

On Earth, humans do not explore new ways of thinking...

...just new human ways of thinking.

The reality is, we have never, in our entire history, actually explored an alien way of thinking - because we all share the same neuro-anatomy.

Perhaps our different views on the matter can be attributed to different perspectives:

I am on mixed European and Asian ancestry, so, in my mind, Arab or Chinese or Indian literature are equally 'domestic' to me as European literature - when I read books written by Indian authors, I do not feel I am reading something exotic - rather it only serves to show me that in fact, all of us are the same in values and motives. So, I don't feel that I am exploring a different way of thinking - just the same one, with differences in terminology and circumstance. I see the same motives and values whether I am reading something written by a Japanese author, or an English one.

Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons, are devices used for exploring the interaction between Earth nations - that is why they are never truely depicted as having alien neuroanatomy in Star Trek - they are just depicted as being different human cultures, in space. If one suddenly made them real aliens - i.e. different species, rather than their current status as 'foreigners', then I am not sure they could any longer be used as a metaphor for human nations. The Cardassian occupation of Bajor would no longer work, if say, Cardassians actually had a BIOLOGICAL predisposition for conquest, and were not simply making a HUMAN mistake.

Do you know what I am getting at?

I am fine with true aliens appearing in Star Trek literature - but clearly, if we are to start regarding Klingons, Cardassians, Andorians and Vulcans as truely alien, then they no longer work in their intended role - i.e. allegories for Earth countries. And political parralels like the Federation-Klingon Cold War being a metaphor for the Cold War, become pointless.
 
I am fine with true aliens appearing in Star Trek literature - but clearly, if we are to start regarding Klingons, Cardassians, Andorians and Vulcans as truely alien, then they no longer work in their intended role - i.e. allegories for Earth countries. And political parralels like the Federation-Klingon Cold War being a metaphor for the Cold War, become pointless.

Why do they become pointless? Again, I'm not suggesting these aliens cease being human-like in regards to much of their psychology, simply that they shouldn't be seen just as simple humans. I'm not denying their similarities, only suggesting the differences should be explored. I would suggest allegorical plots actually function better if these races/nations are distinguished from real humans. I always disliked those TOS episodes where Nazis or Romans or Chicago Gangsters showed up. To me, Star Trek is far better where it isn't trying to comment directly on a specific aspect of Earth history or human activity, but instead simply reflects myriad possibilities. To label an alien race as a simple allegory for one Earth nation or aspect of humanity is diminishing- which is exactly why the novels go out of their way to give us cultural depth and diversity. You yourself mention you dislike the Romulans possessing no cultural depth- surely, then, you must see them as something other than a clear-cut "Roman Empire/North Korea/China/whatever-in-space":) Isn't that restrictive to an exploration of their cultural variety and distinctness?
 
I get what Deranged Nasat is saying. Basically, "alien" cultures in ST are like nonexistent human cultures. They all fall within the range of known human behaviors and beliefs, but there are variations that make them exotic to the typical viewer or reader, at least the Western viewer or reader. An American watching Japanese anime or reading Islamic literature will come across values, conventions, attitudes, etc. that are unfamiliar and may seem strange, because those works are coming from a different cultural perspective and aimed at audiences raised with that culture's assumptions. A Chinese or Pakistani or Congolese person watching American movies might experience similar dissonance, or would if American movies weren't already so ubiquitously seen.

So creating an "alien" culture in ST doesn't really mean creating something inhuman; it just means creating a hypothetical variant on humanity, something that takes elements from known cultural viewpoints but puts them together in a distinct way and therefore feels exotic to the reader. For instance, Klingons combine elements of historical Norse and Japanese cultures. Vulcans take a sort of Enlightenment-era Western rationalism to an extreme. Ferengi are capitalist business culture elevated to a civilization-defining level. All grounded in humanity, but put together in exotic ways. And with the occasional alien element worked in to provide novelty, such as Vulcans' biological mating urge and extended longevity, Ferengi's earlobes as erogenous zones, Andorians' four sexes, Trills' symbiosis, etc.

So DN is suggesting literature that captures the same "foreign" flavor that an American or Brit would get reading Asian or, say, ancient Sumerian literature, but with the foreignness coming from a fictitious culture (and occasionally fictitous biological and environmental influences) rather than a real one.

I agree with this interpretation:

"'Alien' cultures in ST are like nonexistent human cultures."

That is my view too. I never suggested that Qo'noS should become a direct ripoff of 6th century India or 12th century China - rather I was saying Klingon culture could be a subtle combination of Earth cultures. Because, it already is the case, from what we have seen - the Klingon philosophy is not too strange to someone familiar with martial societies - so watching the mok'bara just reminds me of Tai Chi Chuan - listening to the school of philosophy expounded by Kahless sounds like a combination of Mohammed and Miyamoto Musashi, amongst other influences.

This brings us to a philosophical question - is any human thinking truely original - or just a combination of different things seen in nature? I am inclined to think that it is the latter - alien cultures on Star Trek are already either novel combinations of Earth ones, or based on scientific speculation of future Earth ones, which are themselves rooted in past cultural precidents.
 
I am fine with true aliens appearing in Star Trek literature - but clearly, if we are to start regarding Klingons, Cardassians, Andorians and Vulcans as truely alien, then they no longer work in their intended role - i.e. allegories for Earth countries. And political parralels like the Federation-Klingon Cold War being a metaphor for the Cold War, become pointless.

Why do they become pointless? Again, I'm not suggesting these aliens cease being human-like in regards to much of their psychology, simply that they shouldn't be seen just as simple humans. I'm not denying their similarities, only suggesting the differences should be explored. I would suggest allegorical plots actually function better if these races/nations are distinguished from real humans. I always disliked those TOS episodes where Nazis or Romans or Chicago Gangsters showed up. To me, Star Trek is far better where it isn't trying to comment directly on a specific aspect of Earth history or human activity, but instead simply reflects myriad possibilities. To label an alien race as a simple allegory for one Earth nation or aspect of humanity is diminishing- which is exactly why the novels go out of their way to give us cultural depth and diversity. You yourself mention you dislike the Romulans possessing no cultural depth- surely, then, you must see them as something other than a clear-cut "Roman Empire/North Korea/China/whatever-in-space":) Isn't that restrictive to an exploration of their cultural variety and distinctness?

Yeah, I see them as a combination of Earth cultures - but they don't have any biological predispositions toward different behavior. Because then, they would no longer make good allegories for humans. The reason why the Cardassian occupation, or the Romulan isolationism works, is because they could happen to us with just as much likelyhood - if you were to then write some fluff about how Romulans are neurologically predisposed toward totalitarianism, they arnt an allegory for us - the Romulan dissidents recovered by the Enterprise would have to be mentally abnormal Romulans!

If they are outliers in Romulan society, then the whole idea of the Romulan state being un-popular with the people, would collapse! If the Cardassians were predisposed toward exploitation of other worlds, then they are no longer doing what they do, because of human weaknesses like greed or egotism, but because their biology demands it - how the hell does that related to any occupation that has occured in Earth history anymore? The whole role of Cardassians on DS9 would collapse.
 
TMP is my favorite era and Ex Machina, while a little self-indulgent in places, did a really fun job of fleshing out the politics of the Fabrini into a fascinating, multi-layered society. As a result of that novel I spent 9 hours clipping portraits from the new hi-def screencaps from the Rec Deck scene for an RPG... I have 145 portraits!

Is that online? I'd be intrigued to see it.

Trekcore.com has the high def screencaps - they're awesome - the pictures of Spanla, Worene, Nizhoni etc are so clear. On the downside, they're now so clear that you can actually see which departments they should be with - Worene looks yellow (ops) or possibly green (med). I cheated on a few and added petty officer pips. I was thinking of zipping the portraits and posting them into the thousand suns and maybe trek d20 yahoo groups.
 
I am fine with true aliens appearing in Star Trek literature - but clearly, if we are to start regarding Klingons, Cardassians, Andorians and Vulcans as truely alien, then they no longer work in their intended role - i.e. allegories for Earth countries. And political parralels like the Federation-Klingon Cold War being a metaphor for the Cold War, become pointless.

Why do they become pointless? Again, I'm not suggesting these aliens cease being human-like in regards to much of their psychology, simply that they shouldn't be seen just as simple humans. I'm not denying their similarities, only suggesting the differences should be explored. I would suggest allegorical plots actually function better if these races/nations are distinguished from real humans. I always disliked those TOS episodes where Nazis or Romans or Chicago Gangsters showed up. To me, Star Trek is far better where it isn't trying to comment directly on a specific aspect of Earth history or human activity, but instead simply reflects myriad possibilities. To label an alien race as a simple allegory for one Earth nation or aspect of humanity is diminishing- which is exactly why the novels go out of their way to give us cultural depth and diversity. You yourself mention you dislike the Romulans possessing no cultural depth- surely, then, you must see them as something other than a clear-cut "Roman Empire/North Korea/China/whatever-in-space":) Isn't that restrictive to an exploration of their cultural variety and distinctness?

Yeah, I see them as a combination of Earth cultures - but they don't have any biological predispositions toward different behavior. Because then, they would no longer make good allegories for humans. The reason why the Cardassian occupation, or the Romulan isolationism works, is because they could happen to us with just as much likelyhood - if you were to then write some fluff about how Romulans are neurologically predisposed toward totalitarianism, they arnt an allegory for us - the Romulan dissidents recovered by the Enterprise would have to be mentally abnormal Romulans!

I certainly wasn't suggesting we imply a neurological basis for any of the race's cultural behaviour- I would not be at all comfortable with such a suggestion. As I said, myriad possibilities, not "all members of this race think in set terms". Anyway, didn't you just say humans were like that- neurologically inclined towards certain modes of thinking and incapable of breaking them?:)

As I keep saying, I'm not denying the aliens in Trek work as alternative humans most of the time. However, these aliens are products of different planetary ecologies, slightly different evolutionary histories, differing environmental pressures-they shouldn't be exactly identical. At the very least, their cultural distinctiveness should mean they often view their feelings and desires and experiences in very non-human terms, no matter the fact that humans share these feelings, desires and experiences. If they were simply human societies mixed up, surely it ceases being effective allegory and the subtlty is lost? Romulans may use elements of Roman, Korean, Chinese, medieval British, whatever-etc. political or cultural histories as a basis, but they are Romulan, not actually Roman-Chinese-Korean-British (where would be the interest in that?).

What of the Pahkwa-thanh I mentioned? What of Nasats and Alonis and S'ti'ach? (okay, nonhumanoid, but still). You can't argue they don't have "biological predispositions towards different behaviours", yet they all still offer commentary on humanity. The Nasats in "Balance of Nature" are clearly allegorical in their treatment of those with "learning difficulties". :)
 
We seem to have reached an agreement - that humanoid powers like the Cardassians are basically human nations in space - but that more alien worlds like the pahkwa-thanth are shown to have different neuroanatomy.
 
By the way, the idea of thousands of humanoids in a single galaxy is already unlikely (discounting the idea that the humanoid form and human psychology are uniquely successful in galactic evolutionary terms) - so it seems to me that if the First Humanoids from 'The Chase' were capable of selecting a single form with such specificity, that they also ensured that each humanoid species developed the same neuroanatomy - its the only way to explain how the Star Trek setting is really. If we work from this assumption, then the idea of different evolutionary pressures on Vulcan and Earth, is no longer much of an issue.
 
We seem to have reached an agreement - that humanoid powers like the Cardassians are basically human nations in space - but that more alien worlds like the pahkwa-thanth are shown to have different neuroanatomy.

Well, in "A Stitch in Time" Garak insists Cardassian neuroanatomy is somewhat distinct from that of humans in certain regards...

I'm still not comfortable with the idea that Humanoid cultures in Trek can be evaluated entirely as "humans in space". That's certainly a very large part of it, but I've always seen it as more complex than that. If we agree that these cultures and races represent hypothetical humans but with certain differences in biology or evolutionary background motivating cultural or philosophical traits unlikely or impossible in actual humans (as I think we sort of do...) then I agree, but I'm cautious of bringing these fictional cultures too close to actual existing Earth cultures just because they share certain traits or cultural ideals.
 
Although he was agreeing with you at the time, Christopher seems to also share this view of humanoids like the Cardassians being purely human in terms of psychology, and not having significant evolutionary differences in behavior:

Basically, "alien" cultures in ST are like nonexistent human cultures. They all fall within the range of known human behaviors and beliefs, but there are variations that make them exotic to the typical viewer or reader, at least the Western viewer or reader.

"fall within the range of known human behaviors and beliefs"

Garak may say Cardassians and different in biology - and Voyager may have said Vulcan's posses glands that supress emotional response - but it seems the overall effect must be to produce identical psychologies - with only the culture being different - as unlikely as that seems.
 
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