It's definitely my favourite season of the revived series so far. Go Moffatt!
Moffat's Season better than all of RTD Combined?
- Thread starter Brent
- Start date
I'm starting to lean that way myself. There are a handful of stories per season since the revival that I just can't stand to watch again. So far this season, there's only one that I find too bad to watch a second time.
There's two I've hated, but there's also six I've loved and two I've liked, which isn't too shabby.
It's quickly becoming mine. I liked Moffat's contributions to Who, despite dislike Donna. (He made her watchable.)
I don't think he made her watchable-- rather, he did the thing he always did when he wrote an episode for Davies, and he sidelined the companion character in favor of a companion surrogate of his own devising.
Doctor Who is about wonder -- this season has not been as imaginative or as original as RTD's efforts.
The Beast Below was dreary, depressing and had no internal logic.
Victory of the Daleks was part one to a second part that never came.
Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone completely reinvented and ruined whatever originality existed in the Weeping Angels.
Vampires in Venice was cliched and forgettable.
Amy's Choice was good, but nothing was ever at stake.
The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood was one contrivance after another, with again nothing at stake. Oh, Rory died? I'm sure he'll be in the finale. *YAWN*
The above episodes have not been awful, but they have not been good. All the other episodes have been fantastic. But . . .
No Waters of Mars. No Turn Lefts. No Utopia-level cliffhangers. No Blinks or Girls in the Fireplace. No Father's Days or Human Natures. No Empty Childs.
Meh. Where's my RTD? The genius who gave is Children of Earth Day 5 and Midnight? Who reinvented the show that so many fanboys envy/hate/resent and bash him for?
Oh yes, he's a CBE. Well done.
Steven Moffat has to turn this around or the show will be "rested" again. There have been no awful episodes but, yikes this season's been so timid and boring!
The Beast Below was dreary, depressing and had no internal logic.
Victory of the Daleks was part one to a second part that never came.
Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone completely reinvented and ruined whatever originality existed in the Weeping Angels.
Vampires in Venice was cliched and forgettable.
Amy's Choice was good, but nothing was ever at stake.
The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood was one contrivance after another, with again nothing at stake. Oh, Rory died? I'm sure he'll be in the finale. *YAWN*
The above episodes have not been awful, but they have not been good. All the other episodes have been fantastic. But . . .
No Waters of Mars. No Turn Lefts. No Utopia-level cliffhangers. No Blinks or Girls in the Fireplace. No Father's Days or Human Natures. No Empty Childs.
Meh. Where's my RTD? The genius who gave is Children of Earth Day 5 and Midnight? Who reinvented the show that so many fanboys envy/hate/resent and bash him for?
Oh yes, he's a CBE. Well done.
Steven Moffat has to turn this around or the show will be "rested" again. There have been no awful episodes but, yikes this season's been so timid and boring!
Eh? Has Series Five been suffering from inferior ratings?
No, I was going to post ratings of the latest episode like I normally do but I am going to hold off till the finals are posted very soon for Vincent & The Doctor because I don't want to hear about the B/S oh its failing talk.
The overnight numbers have been heavily skewed towards being way off so while the WC 2010 did a massive jobs on the numbers/share (season lows) come there own final numbers next week they will be above the series low set during DT 1st year as the 10th Doctor.
Ratings are fine, AI index and other critical reaction are good. Moffat reign will last probably the same length as RTD at this rate.
Heres the index to date of FINAL numbers...
The Eleventh Hour
10.08 million and 41.7 % Share
86 Index Score
The Beast Below
8.42 million and 38.9 % share
86 Index Score
Victory of the Daleks
7.82 million and 37.4 % Share
84 Index Score
Time of The Angels
8.59 million and 41.2 % Share
87 Index Score
Flesh and Stone
8.50 million viewers and 38.2 % Share
86 Index Score
Vampires of Venice
7.68 million viewers and 35.0% share
86 Index Score
Amy's Choice
7.55 million viewers and 37.4% share
84 Index Score
The Hungry Earth
6.49 million viewers and 32.5% share
86 Index Score
Cold Blood
7.49 million viewers and 27.6% share
85 Index score
I know how you feel - I've felt the same way for the past 4 years that Tennant's been the Doctor. Aside from a few stellar episodes - "Blink" and "Turn Left" come to mind (both Doctor-lite episodes BTW), I've found most of the 10th Doctor's episodes to be a big fat "Meh". I thought season 2 was so abysmal I almost gave up on the show. And aside from "Parting of the Ways", RTD's season finales have really stunk IMO. RTD can do cliffhangers, he just can't finish them without using the big ole reset button or something equally absurd.
Aside from your view of "The Beast Below", I couldn't disagree more with you about this season. I haven't enjoyed Doctor Who this much since Eccleston's year.
Different strokes and all that.
See you lost the argument when you started talking about internal logic as a reason why Moffat's year is worse than any of RTDs! Sorry but logic and RTD never went hand in hand togeather.
There is something off about this year, and I realised the other day what it is. RTD conditioned us over 4 seasons, to expect certain things in certain order. It was slick and sometimes quite hollow, loud and brash and brilliant but also incredibly linear. Moffat has given us something different, perhaps (I hope) a season to rewatch and discover a whole new slant to.
RTD's Who was a roller coaster. Fun and exciting but after a while a bit tiresome. The dips and loops were always in the same place, the speed never varied. By contrast Moffat's Who is a creaky old haunted house that you can wander around in any direction you like. It maybe isn't as bright and shiny, but in its own way its a lot more interesting.
And as for this, horses for courses I know but I'm not actually a huge fan of some of those episodes. WoM was shite, 59 minutes of tiresome monster on the loose shenanigans to prepare us for the moment where the Doctor went bad...for oh about 5 seconds. Seriously it might have been quite good as a 45 minute mid season episode but as "event" telly it was lacking. Turn Left? I don't get the love, aside from Tate's performance this is the kind of alt universe telly sci-fi has been doing for yonks, and gives us nothing unexpected or new (unless Billie's shoddy portayal of Rose counts) No Girl in the Fireplace? Well that's an overated ep as well (see I can critique Moff too) Similarly Father's Day was annoying, and lacked any internal logic of its own as well if we're going to go there.
Utopia I grant you was brill, but oh wasn't the resolution of that cliffhanger awful? I agree no Human Nature/Empty Child level stories (though the first part of the angels episode was bloody good in my opinion).
Season 5 definitely lacks some of the bombast that RTD was famous for has only really had two clunkers for me (Daleks, Amy's Choice) either of which are no worse than Aliens of London, World War Three, New Earth, Fear Her, The Idiot's Lantern, Love and Monsters, 42, The Lazarus Experiment, Daleks in Manhatten, Evolution of the Daleks, The unicorn and the wasp, Planet of the Dead, Waters of Mars etc etc etc.
Well, now that there's only one episode left of the season, I need to confirm the opinion I had a few episodes back - the season is perfectly enjoyable, and Matt Smith's Doctor is absolutely fantastic, but there is most definitely something missing, that was there for much of RTD's reign, and hell if I can put my finger on it. I've discussed it with my wife, and we can't quite figure it out.
Maybe it's all moving too fast. In a handful of episodes, we've got Amy looking up to the Doctor like a lifelong hero, then trying to have sex with him, then realizing she loves Rory (why??), then losing Rory and forgetting about him, and now starting, perhaps, to remember him. She's all over the map. We've had no time to really believe or feel any of these abrupt shifts in motivation. So, we're along, happily, for the ride, but it isn't hitting me on any emotional level, the way that the Doctor/Rose stuff often did.
Or maybe it has to do with the mundane plots. There have been very few surprises in the episodes this season. I don't really recall if there were a lot of surprises in RTD's episodes or not, but I remember feeling like there were. The episodes this season are mostly enjoyable, even fun, but they don't blow your mind. As someone up there said, no Father's Day, no Girl in the Fireplace, no Doctor Dances, no Blink....the season has yet to hit it out of the park.
Also, and this is my main thing, and it's what I said a few pages back, the emotional resonance that was there for much of RTD is absent. The show feels lightweight. It feels quick and fun and empty.
Maybe this has to do with the mysterious nature of Amy. She has no family, no ties, like all the other companions did, so this Doctor's adventures seem cut off from the rest of the world, just like in the old series. One major addition RTD made to the show was making the companions more realistic - they have parents and loves ones who miss them, who they are leaving behind and occasionally visit, and this added depth both to the companion's character and her relationship to the Doctor. It also added a context to the adventures - it broadened the Doctor Who universe. Whatever was happening, it was happening parallel to events on Earth. We were always aware there was a reality on Earth at the same time. Now, it feels more like classic Who - Doctor and companion flying through the universe in a bubble, with no connections to Earth or anyone else. I'm not saying this is necessarily a criticism, but I believe it may be contributing to my feelings of hollowness about this season.
I dunno. As I said, I'm enjoying the season very much. It's just not making me FEEL much.
Maybe it's all moving too fast. In a handful of episodes, we've got Amy looking up to the Doctor like a lifelong hero, then trying to have sex with him, then realizing she loves Rory (why??), then losing Rory and forgetting about him, and now starting, perhaps, to remember him. She's all over the map. We've had no time to really believe or feel any of these abrupt shifts in motivation. So, we're along, happily, for the ride, but it isn't hitting me on any emotional level, the way that the Doctor/Rose stuff often did.
Or maybe it has to do with the mundane plots. There have been very few surprises in the episodes this season. I don't really recall if there were a lot of surprises in RTD's episodes or not, but I remember feeling like there were. The episodes this season are mostly enjoyable, even fun, but they don't blow your mind. As someone up there said, no Father's Day, no Girl in the Fireplace, no Doctor Dances, no Blink....the season has yet to hit it out of the park.
Also, and this is my main thing, and it's what I said a few pages back, the emotional resonance that was there for much of RTD is absent. The show feels lightweight. It feels quick and fun and empty.
Maybe this has to do with the mysterious nature of Amy. She has no family, no ties, like all the other companions did, so this Doctor's adventures seem cut off from the rest of the world, just like in the old series. One major addition RTD made to the show was making the companions more realistic - they have parents and loves ones who miss them, who they are leaving behind and occasionally visit, and this added depth both to the companion's character and her relationship to the Doctor. It also added a context to the adventures - it broadened the Doctor Who universe. Whatever was happening, it was happening parallel to events on Earth. We were always aware there was a reality on Earth at the same time. Now, it feels more like classic Who - Doctor and companion flying through the universe in a bubble, with no connections to Earth or anyone else. I'm not saying this is necessarily a criticism, but I believe it may be contributing to my feelings of hollowness about this season.
I dunno. As I said, I'm enjoying the season very much. It's just not making me FEEL much.
I didn't mean to imply Moffat's failing now. I'm saying that if he continues on this course he'll turn off viewers. I know a lot of people who simply stopped watching after Flesh and Stone. That Silurian two-parter woulda polished anyone else off.
RTD knew characters and drama. Plot holes could be forgiven because, well many times there weren't noticed. Yes there were people who railed against some plot holes but the majority didn't care.
But the mundane nature of Moffat's season is apparant because we're not feeling what we usually feel. We're not as engaged as we were with Rose, Martha and Donna.
The direction is superb. The leads are amazingly talented beyond their years. The failure is that of writing and script editing -- the characters are somewhat inconsistent episode to episode. I simply think Moffat doesn't have enough time to do what he needs to. I think he's a slower writer than RTD and the level of pain that was there with The Doctor is gone.
People complained about the Doctor being whiny. Well, The Doctor is a fictional character, not a walking archetype. There are limits to the drama that can happen to a character, and what he can feel, if he has no growth and no stakes -- which is a terrible risk for any writer tackling Doctor Who.
The Doctor's darkness in Waters of Mars was the manifestation of something that was in Ten since Christmas Invasion with "No second chances." If you think his darkness came out of the blue, then I don't really understand it. The Racnoss, the Family of Blood and his anger at Wilf at the end -- it was always there. Tennant's Doctor was always a self-righteous self-absorbed jerk beneath the surface. He had flaws.
Also you couldn't guess what RTD had planned. You didn't know what the Immortality Gate did. You didn't know who the Toclafane were or what secret lay hidden at the heart of the Valiant. You didn't know what lay within Canary Wharf or if Rose Tyler would die. You didn't know the Doctor was not alone. You didn't know what was on Donna's back and you didn't know why the stars were going out.
I feel I know what is within the Pandorica. I know what the Crack is and does. And I know the TARDIS isn't going to explode. I'm fairly certain the crack erased Amy's parents and she has to remember the Doctor or Rory.
It doesn't make me work my imagination. It makes me work my reason, and that isn't very entertaining. I hope it gets better, I truly do. This has been my favorite show since "Run!"
I think all this talk about "lack of emotion" simply boils down to the difference in Doctors. Tennant's Doc was emotional and friendly and full of joy. He was like a best buddy who you always want to hang out with and go on fun adventures with-- and that was reflected in the joyous, emotional spirit of the show itself.
Smith's Doc on the other hand is as strange and quirky and unpredictable as you can get. He's fun to watch, but, much like the original Doctors, not very easy to identify or connect with. So we kind of find ourselves watching from more of a distance.
There's definitely an adjustment that has to be made there, but personally I think it's worth it if it means we can have someone as brilliant and original as Smith as the Doctor.
Smith's Doc on the other hand is as strange and quirky and unpredictable as you can get. He's fun to watch, but, much like the original Doctors, not very easy to identify or connect with. So we kind of find ourselves watching from more of a distance.
There's definitely an adjustment that has to be made there, but personally I think it's worth it if it means we can have someone as brilliant and original as Smith as the Doctor.
No. Please don't ad reductio my argument into "simply" being uncomfortable with a change in actors. And certainly don't boil my argument without my permission.
Having met Matt Smith I can say he is very charismatic and lights up a room. He is a brilliant actor and I love his performance and his Doctor.
I argued quite clearly and laid out the case that the stories have not been strong or gripping and have relied more on rational and easily predictible plotting than innovation and imagination.
This whole season to me has been very boring. Now dont get me wrong i think Matt is great and cant ask him to walk on water here. But the storys and enemys have been dull. Its like watching later episodes of Stargate, like writers ran out of storys and just made up stuff just to make up an episode without thinking the storys through to see if they were good or made sense. Other words the feel rushed!
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