Shouldn't episode 4:26 (Hope & Fear) logically come before episode episode 4:25 (One)?
mixed up episodes
- Thread starter JeffinOakland
- Start date
I don't think so. Seven was still having difficulties adjusting to her human life in One due to her hallucinations about being Borg throughout the episode. In Hope and Fear she still has issues trusting Janeway but by the end of it she embraces and accepts that she is part of the Voyager family. The episode order makes sense.
but how would that account for them encountering a borg affected species and nearly being thrust into borg space after having passed through the month-long poison field in the previous episode?
Transwarp speeds are thousands of times faster than warp speeds.
Voyager was always within reach of the Borg.
Voyager was always within reach of the Borg.
Transwarp speeds are stupid. Like transwarp beaming. If it keeps going like this they might as well all be I Dream of Jeannie's in their special ship bottles and just blink places.
But it's still sometimes hundreds of thousands of light years between the closest neighbouring galaxies.
After every planet in the Milkyway is homogenised under one flag, it's still expand or die.
To speak plainly: You don't park your car in 5th gear.
After every planet in the Milkyway is homogenised under one flag, it's still expand or die.
To speak plainly: You don't park your car in 5th gear.
Does Ray Wise cost more than a nobody?
Although if they were paying more for Ray, you would think that they would have tried to create a more iconic, memorable, exciting, character?
Although if they were paying more for Ray, you would think that they would have tried to create a more iconic, memorable, exciting, character?
k.
I suppose he just shows up for auditions and the casting director tries to keep cool and not geek out.
"That's great Ray, um, Mr Wise, and can you send in the next guy?"
"Sorry, everybody else left when they saw me show up."
"That's great Ray, um, Mr Wise, and can you send in the next guy?"
"Sorry, everybody else left when they saw me show up."
Plus it's always seemed like the finale for the best seasons of Voyager.
Hope and Fear was an odd episode. It's like, they finally address the fact that Voyager doomed several planets to assimilation for their own selfish purposes, but they do it in a way that makes it clear that being mad about this makes you evil.
In Stargate when they doomed Sumeria for their own selfish purposes by destroying Thor's Hammer, they actually owned up to the consequences and fought to free them again. Voyager is never made to own up to the ethical consequences of what they did. It was just 'Voyager are our heroes and are therefore in the right in all things'.
In Stargate when they doomed Sumeria for their own selfish purposes by destroying Thor's Hammer, they actually owned up to the consequences and fought to free them again. Voyager is never made to own up to the ethical consequences of what they did. It was just 'Voyager are our heroes and are therefore in the right in all things'.
Granted, its all make believe and you have to use suspension of disbelief to get through any episode and yada yada yada. That being said, Hope and Fear makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, even for a ST episode.
They could have gotten Home if they just left Seven behind.
Seven, or Janeway's infatuation with Seven got how many people killed over the next two years, or the next 16 years depending on which timeline you followed.
This would have been a perfect spot for Admiral Janeway to have intervened.
Shoot Arturis, take his shit, and go home.
It would only make them murdering space pirates.
But murdering space pirates who are home.
Lao-Tzu — 'Hope and fear are both phantoms that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self, what do we have to fear?'
WTF?
The Art of War?
#### off!
“Hope and fear are inseparable. There is no hope without fear, nor any fear without hope.”
François de la Rochefoucauld
Caring less about this one.
Seven, or Janeway's infatuation with Seven got how many people killed over the next two years, or the next 16 years depending on which timeline you followed.
This would have been a perfect spot for Admiral Janeway to have intervened.
Shoot Arturis, take his shit, and go home.
It would only make them murdering space pirates.
But murdering space pirates who are home.
Lao-Tzu — 'Hope and fear are both phantoms that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self, what do we have to fear?'
WTF?
The Art of War?
#### off!
“Hope and fear are inseparable. There is no hope without fear, nor any fear without hope.”
Caring less about this one.
Hope and Fear was intended to be the finale for s4. I remember the big deal they made over it on the media and then I watched it and felt...meh. Not worth the e! Interviews.
I'll never forget last year when my then three year old said as Arcturis' ship left the stream, "Oh dear. The Squares are coming."Rofl. He has no clue who the Borg are as I haven't shown him those eps. what an observant kiddo to grasp the pending doom. Props to the designer dept on eerie ship concept.
I'll never forget last year when my then three year old said as Arcturis' ship left the stream, "Oh dear. The Squares are coming."Rofl. He has no clue who the Borg are as I haven't shown him those eps. what an observant kiddo to grasp the pending doom. Props to the designer dept on eerie ship concept.
I understand the argument, but I think one can convincingly submit that their course of action, whether characterized as self-serving or not, did the greater good for not only the inhabitants of the DQ but the entire galaxy. Is it plausible to suggest that after wiping out the Borg, the Undine would have transmitted SCOREBOARD!!!, in flashing neon, over the telepathic equivalent of the interwebs and just gone home?
No, they were pissed because their pure, pristine, hermetic existence had been rudely disturbed after who knows how many eons of solitude by arrogant, unfeeling twerps. So to prevent such attempted defilement from ever happening again, the Undine were going to clean the house that these malefactors came from. Completely. Some might maintain that being dead is preferable to being assimilated by the Borg. I don't think the sentiment would be universally accepted though.
I got the definite impression they were only planning to wipe out everyone else as retaliation for the Borg incursion into their space. From their perspective, carbon based life forms with two arms and two legs were trying to destroy them, therefore all life forms who meet that description were the enemy. Kind of like the reason in Babylon 5 the Minbari assaulted Earth. And in In The Flesh they succeeded in doing what Sinclair did to calm down the Minbari, and from then on they were reasonable people.
Now, it's true that from Voyager's perspective at the time, they did not know the Borg struck first, and thus it seemed to them they did just want to kill them all, period. But I can't help but think if Janeway hadn't had tunnel vision to the alpha quadrant she could have stepped back and figured that out.
Now, it's true that from Voyager's perspective at the time, they did not know the Borg struck first, and thus it seemed to them they did just want to kill them all, period. But I can't help but think if Janeway hadn't had tunnel vision to the alpha quadrant she could have stepped back and figured that out.
I seem to recall the statement "Your galaxy will be purged" being channeled by Kes. That would seem to take in a whole lot of other life forms, be they carbon based, bipedal, or otherwise. Whether they considered many of the species they encountered, their enemies or just background pond scum of the neighborhood that had to be wiped clean seems not to be much of a debating point, if that's what you're saying here. Dead is dead, regardless of one's being the primary combatant or just a collateral casualty by virtue of being in the vicinity of the fray.
The contention that Janeway's ignorance of the Borg having started the conflict isn't irrelevant, seeems problematic. First, I think that one can essentially discount the idea that anyone is likely to consider contact with the Borg to be beingn. It's either their attempting to assimilate you or flat out ignoring you as you don't have anything useful to offer them.
Regardless, in this specific instance, it seems a bit of a leap to think that Janeway trying to sound out a reasoned discourse with the Undine could have gone very far. Oh, maybe their natural state is to be all sweetness and light at home and undisturbed in fluidic space. Kes's perception of their character would argue otherwise. At any rate, they had their rage on at this point and I don't beleive that Janeway would have been feckless enough to make such an extremely dangerous try at a parley without a backup escape/defense mechanism, i.e. a legitimate weapon.
No amount of Starfleet inventiveness and creativity even overlaid with the tactical knowledge that Voyager had accrued from 3 years of experience in the DQ could change the fact that the only effective deterrent to the Undine's capabilities appeared to lay with utilizing Borg technology. So, Janeway was going to try to establish a dialogue that had to appear genuine and sincere, with no contrary agenda present, while at the same time possessing material coming from the Undine's enemy, a fact that they would inevitably perceive telepathically. Whether Voyager was in league with the Borg or just purloined the nanoprobes would make little difference. Their simply having it would be enough of an association given the Undine was on an implacable war footing. Good luck with getting very far with that!
I would suggest that the only reason that non-lethal communications was possible as shown in In The Flesh was not because the Undine had been rendered toothless or a true pacific nature was revealed. It was because they had been provided direct evidence that our stalwarts had the means to resist them with effective deadly force and that alone was the factor that would bring the Undine to consider strategies other than destructive aggression.
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