Knight Templar
Commodore
Spot on. Values generally take second place to potential unemployment.
Mississippi church refuses to marry black couple
- Thread starter { Emilia }
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Spot on. Values generally take second place to potential unemployment.
That's funny, KT - because you're on record as advocating discrimination in employment not just directed against gays, but also ethnic minorities, nationalities, etc. Incidentally, what does that say about such values? Even overlooking the gay thing for sake of argument if it's not okay for a church to not be inclusive racially and not okay for a pastor to say so quickly (which actually isn't the case here - for it's now been found out that five or six people are the cause but they are having a problem, it seems locating them), why is it okay for a business not to be inclusive? Does inclusivity as a value only apply to the greater (the church), but not the lesser (private business). Is that a distinction we can find in Scripture?
Knight Templar
Commodore
I'm not on record advocating discrimination at all.
I'm on record that people should be able to use their private property, business, and assets as they please.
If someone wants to not hire homosexuals. Fine.
If someone wants to hire ONLY homosexuals. Fine.
If someone wants to not hire blacks. Fine.
If someone wants to hire ONLY blacks. Fine.
If someone wants to only hire people from their own church. Fine.
If someone wants to hire only atheists. Fine.
If someone wants to hire only Democrats Fine.
If someone wants to hire only Republicans Fine.
If someone wants to hire only women. Fine.
If someone wants to hire only men. Fine.
Is that clear?
Stop right there and consider this: they didn't want the couple to be wed at the church because they were black. How do you logically get "It may have nothing to do with racism" from that?
What gypsy?
What is wrong with you guys? Have you never read a gturner post before?
He made it up. That's what he does. That's all he does.
Then why in the hell does he get away with it?
Then why in the hell does he get away with it?
Same as KT, Apostle, Tina etc etc, so we can pick apart their "arguments" infront of everyone and demonstrate to them just how few people fall for their nonsense.
And enjoying the eventual breakdowns/flameouts they produce when they don't get their way.
I'm sympathetic to the pastor not wanting to risk his job in this economy, but as the leader of the church the man has an obligation to the couple, his congregation (including the racist members he failed to stand up to and teach), and to his belief to do the right thing and lead by example, and he was cowardly to change the venue of the marriage because of threats. How can he look the black members of the congregation in the eye again after he's demonstrated that the church can be bullied by racists threatening his job?
Well, from what I've read elsewhere, the culprits found a way to do it and hide their identities. In order to do something about it, he has to find out who they are. The church is now in the process of doing that, and it's now been revealed that it's five or six individuals, but they can't get them to come forward to admit it. It's not that he's unwilling to do anything about it; rather there is a process that he has to go through to deal with them - go to them individually, then if that fails with witnesses (other elders or deacons), then if that fails to correct them, they are to be brought before the whole congregation.
Logically, each statement is reversible. Try to master that skill. If someone does not want to hire x - fine.
That's discrimination. You are on record advocating discrimination. No amount of equivocation will hide it.
Apparently you reserve this for business, not the local church.
Like I said, is that a value we can find in the Bible or is that just an ad hoc value?
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Stop right there and consider this: they didn't want the couple to be wed at the church because they were black. How do you logically get "It may have nothing to do with racism" from that?
What gypsy?
What is wrong with you guys? Have you never read a gturner post before?
He made it up. That's what he does. That's all he does.
The problem with that is, as I've explained to him VERY recently, not everyone gets his special brand of humor or has experience reading a lot of his posts, and frankly, between some of the things gturner has seriously argued in favor of and some of the actual backwards bigoted crap that gets thrown around by a few posters here that doesn't sound much different from that, he should learn the appropriate setting for joking around, ie. not telling racist folk tales in the middle of a thread about actual racist folk, and not making jokes about aborting gay babies in the middle of a thread full of homophobia.
Therefore, gturner, you get an infraction for trolling for those two posts. Comments to PM.
Discrimination against gays
Discriminations against hetrosexuals
Discrimantion against blacks
Discimination against other ethnic backgrounds
I could go on but the point it is against the law in many countries to discriminate against people for jobs based on things like gender/ethnic background/ religion/ sexual orientation etc...
He doesn't have to expose or expel those members, just lead by example and refuse to be bullied into collaborating with racism, while speaking to the entire congregation about racism and loving thy neighbor, and allowing them to speak their mind as well. It should have been a teachable moment.
Well, from what I've read about what's going on is that he did most of that. I think he's getting short shrift. His error was in moving the wedding, but with respect to the rest, his congregation has joined him in finding out who the disturbers of the brethren are. According to Scripture, he actually does have the duty to find them, confront them privately, and then, if that doesn't work, expose them, etc. It's a Dominical injunction, so it's not one of those things where people can shuffle it off and say "it's not necessary according to Paul" or something stupid like that. Jesus told us to do it. Like I wrote earlier, it's in his and the church's best interest now to do it too, because news has gotten to the MS Baptist Convention itself, and it's also gotten to the national Southern Baptist Convention and the ears of Fred Luter, the newly elected and first black SBC President. I know the SBC, they will make an example of this church if this process isn't followed, because they've made race relations a major thing among them recently (took 150 years, but they finally did it collectively) I wouldn't be surprised if Rev. Luter, who lives not far away (New Orleans) doesn't show up on one Sunday morning if not for their fall revival services.
Every day I wake up thinking it's the 21st century and every day somebody reminds me it's still 1950. Or 1850.
Because of the separation of church and state, they do have the right to do this, of course. And it sounds like the pastor was in favor of conducting the ceremony, but simply let himself be bullied by a small, vocal group of throwbacks. Of course, in his defense, when it comes to racism, standing up to racism can cost you more than just your job.
Because of the separation of church and state, they do have the right to do this, of course. And it sounds like the pastor was in favor of conducting the ceremony, but simply let himself be bullied by a small, vocal group of throwbacks. Of course, in his defense, when it comes to racism, standing up to racism can cost you more than just your job.
A
Amaris
Guest
Well shit. It looks like I live less than 20 miles away from a whole bunch of Nazi's, Islamic Extremists, and Anti-Semitic assholes. Way to go, Ohio.
So do I. Way less than twenty miles even. So don't feel too bad about it, J..
Well, you have to admit, you have produced 24 astronauts. There seems to be something about Ohio that makes people want to flee the planet.
By the way, I live about 5 from one of those on that map.
An additional two are within driving distance too...and people wonder why NC passed Amendment One and there are people who are "agin, that evil MLK Jr. Holiday."
Wow, I can't defend this one.
This is definitely not Gods will. There is no reason those two can't be married. If that happened at a church I was attending, I'd stop attending plain and simple. This does not show the love for fellow man that Jesus had. I think the pastor has lost his way here. Be best to find another church.
Pretty appalling something like this can still happen. Man is man, and we are flawed and can be influenced to do the wrong thing by the forces of evil. The devil is dancing in his pit right now because this is another story that makes Christians look bad because of one man.
This is definitely not Gods will. There is no reason those two can't be married. If that happened at a church I was attending, I'd stop attending plain and simple. This does not show the love for fellow man that Jesus had. I think the pastor has lost his way here. Be best to find another church.
Pretty appalling something like this can still happen. Man is man, and we are flawed and can be influenced to do the wrong thing by the forces of evil. The devil is dancing in his pit right now because this is another story that makes Christians look bad because of one man.
I have a feeling that racism, in some form, is never going to die. As much as we don't like it, there's always going to be indifference felt between people who are different, and we will always find a way to separate ourselves from each other. I think even if Aliens landed on this planet, we'd just extend this racism to the aliens. As sad as it sounds, I think racism is with us until the world ends.
I remember a church here in NC about 20 years ago in Wake Forest that split over something like this. It was not just five or six members incognito though. Apparently, the pastor came in and some black folks wanted to join, and a bunch of people got upset. Since it wasn't a minority of the members, the pastor waited a few weeks while he pulled together a remnant, then he basically gave his last sermon and told them all off and left with the group of members that had their act together. They founded a new church and met in a local school gym while they saved money and looked for a piece of land to build on or a vacant church house, with a mixed race membership that included the ones who had wanted to join the other church and thrived and are still going today. The other one then got such a bad rep, and deservedly so, that they couldn't find a pastor who'd take them on, so they basically wound up having to disperse and the church died out. Good riddance.
Lulz. You were jumping up and down defending homophobia in the other thread, and now you shake your head at racism? It's the same thing, dude. Only the target of bigotry and discrimination is different.