Missed opportunities in Trek?

[Nyotarules]

^ She is not new to Kirk, people go thru different relationships in their lifetime. Just cos we in the the real world have never heard of her does not lessen her importance in universe. Carol Marcus never gave the impression she wanted to renew anything with Kirk. She loved him so much she denied him access to his son...some great love that is.
Ruth was a machine based on what, someone glimpsed for a few seconds on screen.
Antonia, Edith and perhaps Ariel the lawyer stand a better chance

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Ruth the robot was based on Kirk's memories of a Human Ruth he'd known once. She's blonde, and is never said to have had one career or another. So she's certainly a candidate for the blonde lab tech...

 

[wayoung]

^ She is not new to Kirk, people go thru different relationships in their lifetime. Just cos we in the the real world have never heard of her does not lessen her importance in universe.

She's new to the audience. The audience is real, the movie is fictional. Using an existing, meaningful relationship increases dramatic stakes and audience investment. We would care if he rejected a life with Carol, raising his child, to save the galaxy one more time. Nobody watching cares about Antonia. She's just a name. They don't even show her, there's a couple lines and suddenly we're supposed to believe she's Kirk's great regret. It's bad storytelling.

 

[Nyotarules]

^ Ok I get ya.

 

[Nyotarules]

Kirk goes back in time via teh Nexus to fight for joint custody of David or some kind of parental access...then Picard shows up and he chooses to save the galaxy rather than fight for his son....

 

[Voth commando1]

"Picard and Beverly should've become a couple."

Er no.

"The Borg on DS9."

Hell no

"Voyager coming across some systems conquered by the Dominion".

How? They were nowhere near the Gamma quadrant

"The Maquis crew on Voyager not integrating with Starfleet in the snap of a finger; or at least not all of them."

Yeah that would have made a good season 1 or 2

Voyager did have Learning Curve and that episode where B'lanna almost kills Carey.

 

[Armus]

Having just rewatched "The City On Edge of Forever", I remember reading that Tracy Torme wrote an outline for a TNG episode that brought back Spock and the Guardian. That would have been awesome.

 

[wayoung]

For awhile as a kid Diane Carey's Best Destiny was my favourite novel, it utilized the Gaurdian, and still has my favourite depiction of Young Kirk.

 

[trekshark]

I have to disagree with Saavik being the traitor, would have ruined her character for me

 

[The Wormhole]

Having just rewatched "The City On Edge of Forever", I remember reading that Tracy Torme wrote an outline for a TNG episode that brought back Spock and the Guardian. That would have been awesome.

Actually, it was Sarek, and it would have ended up with him staying in Vulcan's ancient past and becoming Surak.

For awhile as a kid Diane Carey's Best Destiny was my favourite novel, it utilized the Gaurdian, and still has my favourite depiction of Young Kirk.

I don't remember the Guardian being in Best Destiny, and neither does Memory Beta.

 

[wayoung]

Actually, it was Sarek, and it would have ended up with him staying in Vulcan's ancient past and becoming Surak.

I don't remember the Guardian being in Best Destiny, and neither does Memory Beta.

Maybe I'm merging books in my head. Does Best Destiny not have Kirk going to the Gaurdian after it stopped working and putting his hand on it asking "Why?" In the prologue, which then has the Gaurdian give him the vision of his running away from home with Quinton and the girls, so that when he's called to go to the world with the big transporter his memories of the past (that connect to his present mission in the antagonist) keep playing in his mind?

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe I'm merging books in my head. Does Best Destiny not have Kirk going to the Gaurdian after it stopped working and putting his hand on it asking "Why?"

You sure are merging books. That's the prologue to the novel Federation.

 

[wayoung]

You sure are merging books. That's the prologue to the novel Federation.

Thanks for clarifying. I haven't read either of them in, wow, almost 20 years. Damn I'm old.

 

[Tenacity]

and suddenly we're supposed to believe she's Kirk's great regret

Maybe more Kirk's most resent regret, or rather his last. Between the time of Antonia and being pulled into the Nexus Kirk might not have had any significant romance in his life, so in the Nexus he though of Antonia.

Let's face it, Marcus was yesterday's news, while young Kirk did at one point consider marriage, that doesn't automatically translate into Marcus was the number one greatest love in Kirk life. By the time of GEN his affair with Marcus was some thirty years in the past.

 

[wayoung]

Maybe more Kirk's most resent regret, or rather his last. Between the time of Antonia and being pulled into the Nexus Kirk might not have had any significant romance in his life, so in the Nexus he though of Antonia.

Let's face it, Marcus was yesterday's news, while young Kirk did at one point consider marriage, that doesn't automatically translate into Marcus was the number one greatest love in Kirk life. By the time of GEN his affair with Marcus was some thirty years in the past.

All of which is a fine fanon explanation but doesn't change the fact that Kirks leaving Antonia is entirely ineffective in the film because nobody has ever heard of her before or cares if he stays with her or not. Kirk himself doesn't even seem to care.

I never alleged Carol was his greatest love, I don't know where that comment is coming from?

I said it would be a much more effective moment if he decided to give up a chance at a life raising his son with Carol than the one we got. It also would have connected well back to the TOS movies, where David was a driving force in three of the six films. Others have suggested people like Edith - I think that would have been a fine choice as well, but not as effective as Carol and David imo.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk falls in love at the drop of a hat. Not sure he has a greatest love.

 

[Kevman7987]

Kirk falls in love at the drop of a hat. Not sure he has a greatest love.

The Enterprise. He just couldn't quit her.

 

[Devilpogostick]

I have to disagree with Saavik being the traitor, would have ruined her character for me

My opinion, I think that could work. While I don't really have much thought bout her relationship with David, him getting killed by Klingons to save her life should have an effect on her somewhat.

It's a nice contrast with how Kirk dealt with that event. No doubt this just made their views on Klingons a tad bit more personal. Also it would be pretty nice to see someone in the core group we're more familiar with that had ultimately very different views at the end of things. It's a sore point, but it helps display how much this peace between Federation and Klingons is going to be a long road even once Kirk and crew resolve the plot.

 

[Nyotarules]

My opinion, I think that could work. While I don't really have much thought bout her relationship with David, him getting killed by Klingons to save her life should have an effect on her somewhat.

It's a nice contrast with how Kirk dealt with that event. No doubt this just made their views on Klingons a tad bit more personal. Also it would be pretty nice to see someone in the core group we're more familiar with that had ultimately very different views at the end of things. It's a sore point, but it helps display how much this peace between Federation and Klingons is going to be a long road even once Kirk and crew resolve the plot.

However her relationship with David is not canon, the movies never implied one. Maybe its in the novels (shrugs). They did not even come across as friends, just colleagues on a mission. But it is a shame she was not a baddie in the movie, there are some good fanfics where she is just as guilty but due to Valaris loyalty to her she is never caught.

 

[wayoung]

However her relationship with David is not canon, the movies never implied one. Maybe its in the novels (shrugs). They did not even come across as friends, just colleagues on a mission. But it is a shame she was not a baddie in the movie, there are some good fanfics where she is just as guilty but due to Valaris loyalty to her she is never caught.

It is in the novelizations of TWOK and TSFS, same as her being half Romulan. So likely in earlier versions of the scripts as well. So not canon, but not contradicted by canon either.